Miller Furnace Problem

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Old 09-18-07, 05:37 PM
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Miller Furnace Problem

Our Miller Gas Furnace Is Not Working Properly. I Replaced The Ignitor. It Now Lights For A Second Or Two And Then Goes Back Out. Any Suggestions?
 
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Old 09-18-07, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RICKLANCE View Post
Our Miller Gas Furnace Is Not Working Properly. I Replaced The Ignitor. It Now Lights For A Second Or Two And Then Goes Back Out. Any Suggestions?

is it a spark ignitor or hot surface?
 
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Old 09-19-07, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
is it a spark ignitor or hot surface?
HOT SURFACE. IT HAS A PORCELAIN STICK THAT SHOULD GET HOT ENOUGH TO GLOW, BUT DOESN'T STAY ON LONG ENOUGH.
 
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Old 09-19-07, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RICKLANCE View Post
HOT SURFACE. IT HAS A PORCELAIN STICK THAT SHOULD GET HOT ENOUGH TO GLOW, BUT DOESN'T STAY ON LONG ENOUGH.

ok make sure that the ignitor leads are not reversed IOW- the hot and nuetral leads on rhe ignitor are connected to the module properly. Next, hook up a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the ignitor leads. Then make sure the ignitor leads are ok, no nicks, burnt spots, etc. Next make darn sure that hot wire to the furnace goes to the hot connection, the nuetral lead goes nuetral connection and that the furnace is grounded all the way back to the electrical panel. If all that is ok, you might have a bad ignition module. See if you can find a model or part number on the module.
 
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Old 09-19-07, 04:47 PM
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Ignitor stays on for 2 seconds or FLAME stays on for 2 seconds?
 
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Old 09-20-07, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
ok make sure that the ignitor leads are not reversed IOW- the hot and nuetral leads on rhe ignitor are connected to the module properly. Next, hook up a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the ignitor leads. Then make sure the ignitor leads are ok, no nicks, burnt spots, etc. Next make darn sure that hot wire to the furnace goes to the hot connection, the nuetral lead goes nuetral connection and that the furnace is grounded all the way back to the electrical panel. If all that is ok, you might have a bad ignition module. See if you can find a model or part number on the module.
Leads are good, hot and neutral are good and so is ground. I dont have a voltmeter to check that. I had someone at work suggest it may be the gas regulator. I am a plumber and all this HVAC is beyond me. I think it is time to call a repair man. I am PA DOT approved in gas lines and I know the danger of messing with gas if you don't know what you are doing. When it comes to furnaces, I don't know what I am doing. Thanks for all the help.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Ignitor stays on for 2 seconds or FLAME stays on for 2 seconds?
Ignitor, I am not getting a flame.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 03:53 PM
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2 Seconds

You really need a volt meter to see how long power is being applied to the ignitor. The gas valve certainly should not be the problem. It opens X seconds after the thermostat calls for heat & doesn't know or care if the ignitor is working or not. I suspect an igniton control box to be the problem.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 05:13 PM
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Gas valve (3 in all) -counting one of these as the meter didn't get turned off? (like from not paying bill, or somebody goofing around).

Sometimes ignitors go bad even when they glow. I have had to replace a couple now that did the very problem you are experiencing. They just did not glow strong enough. They can be ohms tested at the two leads.

Usually you'll see a whitish crack in a bad one. But the last one I replaced (last season) that actually glowed and had no crack to the naked eye.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 05:28 PM
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Ignitor

Ecman51 is right about the ignitor starting to glow but not staying on long enough to light the gas. A hairline crack will cause this. When replacing ignitors in a Miller (especially a CMF with a power gas burner) be sure to use an ignitor from Miller (Nordyne). Others seem to be a tiny bit too long & will crack very easily.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Gas valve (3 in all) -counting one of these as the meter didn't get turned off? (like from not paying bill, or somebody goofing around).

Sometimes ignitors go bad even when they glow. I have had to replace a couple now that did the very problem you are experiencing. They just did not glow strong enough. They can be ohms tested at the two leads.

Usually you'll see a whitish crack in a bad one. But the last one I replaced (last season) that actually glowed and had no crack to the naked eye.
THE GAS WAS SHUT OFF FOR 3 YEARS WHILE THE HOME WAS EMPTY. WE JUST MOVED IN A FEW WEEKS AGO. I WAS TOLD THAT THE FURNACE WASN'T WORKING DUE TO A BAD IGNITOR. WHICH I REPLACED A FEW DAYS AGO. THEN THIS PROBLEM STARTED. I WAS EXTREMELY CAREFUL NOT TO BUMP OR TOUCH THE PORCELAIN, AS THE SALESMAN FOR THE PART TOLD ME IT WOULD RUIN IT AUTOMATICALLY. IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MILLER PART. I CAN'T GET A REPAIRMAN IN FOR TWO MORE WEEKS. I GUESS NOT MANY WORK ON MILLER FURNACES. THIS MODULAR IS ONLY 8 YEARS OLD, AND SAT EMPTY FOR 3 1/2 OF THEM. SO BASICALLY THE FURNACE IS REALLY QUITE NEW. SO I WILL TRY TO BUY/BORROW A VOLTMETER AND CHECK THAT OUT.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Ecman51 is right about the ignitor starting to glow but not staying on long enough to light the gas. A hairline crack will cause this. When replacing ignitors in a Miller (especially a CMF with a power gas burner) be sure to use an ignitor from Miller (Nordyne). Others seem to be a tiny bit too long & will crack very easily.
I WILL DOUBLE CHECK THAT IT IS DEFINATELY A MILLER IGNITOR. THE SALESMAN SEEMED TO "MATCH" IT UP JUST BY SIZE AND NOT A PARTS #.
 
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Old 09-20-07, 08:09 PM
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Sorry, I Am New To This And Didn't Realize That There Was A Reply Key. I Have Been Replying Through The Quote Key.
 
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Old 09-21-07, 02:23 PM
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Ignitor

I suggest you go to a place which sells Miller equipment & get a genuine Miller ignitor. BTW, it is not the porcelain you need to be concerned with but the black part. The black part is the actual ignitor, the porcelain is just an insulator.
You can touch the porcelain all you want.
 
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Old 09-21-07, 08:14 PM
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I Checked And The Part Is A Miller Part, For This Furnace. So I Guess I Need To Get My Hands On A Voltmeter. Probably Won't Be Until Monday, I Am Going Out Of Town Sat/sun. Thanks For All The Help. I Will Let You Know If I Get It Fixed.
 
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Old 09-22-07, 07:33 AM
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Even better than checking the voltage on the igniter, you should check the impedance. You could still get 120 volts though it even at high impedance. With you multimeter set to "ohms" attach it to the leads of the igniter. You should get somewhere in the ball park of 30 ohms.

You also have to be sure that the igniter is positioned in the burner properly. The igniter also acts as a flame sensor in these furnaces. If it's placement is just a little off from where it should be could cause the symptoms you are having.
 
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Old 09-22-07, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RICKLANCE View Post
I Checked And The Part Is A Miller Part, For This Furnace. So I Guess I Need To Get My Hands On A Voltmeter. Probably Won't Be Until Monday, I Am Going Out Of Town Sat/sun. Thanks For All The Help. I Will Let You Know If I Get It Fixed.

If you're sure about the 2 seconds, then you need to see if the incoming voltage to the module is being interrupted. If yes, then check out the air proving pressure switch. If the incoming voltage is ok, then check the voltage going to the ignitor to see how long it stays on. Most HSI ignition modules have an ignitor warm up period that varies from 17 to 45 seconds depending on the brand and model# of the module. If the voltage to the ignitor doesn't stay on long enough AND the incoming voltage is ok, then you probably have a bad ignition module.
 
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Old 09-23-07, 04:57 PM
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Something I just thought about that Daddyjohn brought up...

Air proving switch....
Depending on the Model Miller furnace you have there may not even be one (CMF-80). The CMF80's have a centrifugal switch that closes when the combustion blower motor come up to speed. If there is a fault with that then the HSI will not glow.

RICKLANCE, what is the model of the furnace? Is there an LED on the control module that flashes after the furnace attempts to light. If there is there should be a trouble shoot list somewhere on the module.

Also, does hot surface igniter (HSI) glow for 2 seconds or does it glow for upward of 45 seconds, as DaddyJohn said, and then the flame ignites for 2 seconds?

If it's the later, then it should be a problem isolated to the control module or the HSI
 
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Old 09-25-07, 03:58 PM
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Been sick last couple days.

Update on my post #9. I found a used new looking (but shot) typical HSI laying around my house. Re-ohms tested it to make sure. No continuity at the prongs. But I DID have continuity on opposite ends of the rough-black HSI material itself!

Took it outside and stripped back that braided heat resistant outer wrap to see what I coud see. Re-ohms tested at a crimp where it transitions between a braided wire and a thin round metal strip of wire that heads into the HSI. Even though the crimps were rusty, this was not the problem.

My only recourse was to smash open the ceramic to check out the connection between the thin round wire strips and the HSI material itself. It was at that joinery, within the ceramic itself that was bad.

Hopefully this info may prove useful to you.
 
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Old 10-10-07, 10:00 AM
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Thank You To Everyone That Helped Me With The Problem Furnace. I Was Out Of Town, Then Very Sick And Then Out Of Town For A Family Emergency. Yesterday I Did The Things You All Suggested And Moving The Ignitor To 1/8 Inch Away Did The Trick. The Furnace Is Now Up And Running Like A Champ!!! Just In Time For The Chilly Mornings. Again Thank You All. Not Paying A Furnace Repairman Was A Blessing.
 
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Old 10-10-07, 06:15 PM
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You're Welcome

Glad we could help & you saved some coins. Stay warm this winter but should the need arise, we are here & will do our best to help you fix your heater.
 
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