Rheem Oil Furnace or New Honeywell Tstat Problem

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  #1  
Old 11-12-07, 10:30 AM
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Rheem Oil Furnace or New Honeywell Tstat Problem

I have been looking everywhere for any idea what may be happening before I call a professional.

First Time Homeowner

Description:

I just recently bought a house and have a rheem ROBC 0842BRA Oil Heating furnace. I was not here when the inspector took a look at it but he said it was fine. I have a service plan that does not take effect until Dec 1, due to them needing to clean it first.

Now onto my question. I had a previous tstat Honeywell, round and mercury. I recently went out and replaced it with a Honeywell RTH230B.

The system is a 2 wire, Red and White. So I removed the Rh to Rc jumper like the instructions said and went Red to Rh & white to W.

Well now I have something weird happening. I cannot control the blower. I have the system tstat set at 62 and it came on last night. Now even though its over the temp stated on the tstat to go on. The Systems blower runs for about a Minute and then turns off. This even continues to happen when the tstat is in the off position. The only way to get it to stop is by switching the emergency switch on the wall, and the reset switch in the furnace while the tstat is in the off position.

I do not think it is the actual heat because the air is warm coming from the registers but not as hot as it gets when the heat is on, but the register leading to the Chimney is warm. Warmer then I would like.


After another test I am really starting to think this tstat does not work well with this unit. I have left acting the way stated above for a couple of days to do more research. Of course no answers. This morning the tstat was set at 62 read 66. I raised it to 68 the heater symbol came on and the furnace did nothing.

I have read elsewhere it may be the fan switch, or a short. Other then incompatibility what could be causing this?

Thanks in advance
 
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  #2  
Old 11-12-07, 10:55 AM
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"The Systems blower runs for about a Minute and then turns off. "

I forgot to mention this continuously happens what seems like a cycle between 15 & 30 minutes.
 
  #3  
Old 11-12-07, 04:13 PM
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Hi gm:

Try taking the red and white wires off the thermostat, tie them together and see what happens [turn off the power first of course]. If I understand you correctly, your system is heat only? If that's true, the power for the control system is probably coming from the transformer in the oil burner primary control. The primary control transformer won't have enough wattage to power the control and a digital stat. You might have to put your old stat back on. Let us know what happens when you remove the new t-stat from the equation.
 
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Old 11-12-07, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post


Well now I have something weird happening. I cannot control the blower.
You have A/C on your furnace? Your t-stat may have a fan switch, but you only wired up 2 wires.. For the blower to run from the t-stat you need 2 more wires, Rc, and G to run the fan, and Y for A/C.

I have the system tstat set at 62 and it came on last night. Now even though its over the temp stated on the tstat to go on. The Systems blower runs for about a Minute and then turns off. This even continues to happen when the tstat is in the off position. The only way to get it to stop is by switching the emergency switch on the wall, and the reset switch in the furnace while the tstat is in the off position.
Sounds like the fan is coming on due the warmth around the heat exchanger.. Look for a silver box, that box is a fan limit control.. (See below)


There should be 3 tabs, let us know where are the tabs are at for temp readings.

This morning the tstat was set at 62 read 66. I raised it to 68 the heater symbol came on and the furnace did nothing.
What happens if you take the two wires and touch them, does it fire off?
 
  #5  
Old 11-12-07, 08:58 PM
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T-Stat

I'd bet there is too much drain on the transformer. Get a battery powered stat if Jay's "tie the wires together" test causes the burner to fire. Rheem's are a PITA when it comes to control wiring & the power does not come directly from the primary control.

Jay, Doesn't that stat need a common?
 
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Old 11-12-07, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Jay, Doesn't that stat need a common?
Nope, can use Battery.
 
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Old 11-12-07, 09:16 PM
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Battery

Is that battery for actual power or just a back-up & is there any kind of reconfiguration which has to be done (dip switch, etc.)? Dang Honeywell with Soooo many different thermostats. Some "retail only" some "trade only". Too many thermostats, not enough brain cells.
 
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Old 11-12-07, 09:27 PM
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Wink

[QUOT"The Systems blower runs for about a Minute and then turns off. "

I forgot to mention this continuously happens what seems like a cycle between 15 & 30 minutes.
E][/QUOTE]
Im thinking its just the way the blower control is set for. As it get cooler out Ill bet it will work ok. A lot of the furnaces with the blower limit control set low do that for a time till it gets cooler out.
 
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Old 11-12-07, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Is that battery for actual power or just a back-up & is there any kind of reconfiguration which has to be done (dip switch, etc.)?
That t-stat he has does not have C on it, so the battery does the switching on and off. Only switch that needs to be done is for electric furnace to force fan on or system controls fan.
and the CPH for heat and A/C.
 
  #10  
Old 11-13-07, 04:28 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions.

When I get home tonight I will try the tie the wires together and see if the furnace fires.

The Tstat I have is already battery driven, but I am unsure if it is primary or backup. I was thinking Primary because when I installed it there were nothing until the battery was put in.

It is a heat only system as you have guessed where I do not control the fan either. So 2 wires only.

"Im thinking its just the way the blower control is set for. As it get cooler out Ill bet it will work ok. A lot of the furnaces with the blower limit control set low do that for a time till it gets cooler out."

Ed I would not have been worried as you have said it could be a cycle, but the tstat will be in the "off" position and this will continue to occur until I

a) Turn off the Emergency Switch, and keep it off.
b) Put the tstat in off, turn off the emergency switch and hit the reset button on the furnace.


"There should be 3 tabs, let us know where are the tabs are at for temp readings."

Jay where would I find this. I will take a pic tonight of my furnace. I have been in other forums, and seen responses like yours. I am very hesitant to touch anything because this is new territory for me. When looking at my furnace I have not seen anything like that. Would I have to remove components, or are they usually covered by a plate etc?

"What happens if you take the two wires and touch them, does it fire off?"


I will let you know tonight.
 
  #11  
Old 11-13-07, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
continue to occur until I

a) Turn off the Emergency Switch, and keep it off.
b) Put the tstat in off, turn off the emergency switch and hit the reset button on the furnace.
What button are you pressing? Take a photo if you can.



Jay where would I find this. I will take a pic tonight of my furnace. When looking at my furnace I have not seen anything like that. Would I have to remove components, or are they usually covered by a plate etc?
I don't know what brand you got, I am guessing there is a door in front of the furnace that you lift off. It should be on the upper half above the burner. You will see only the silver box, and the rod is stuck inside near the heat exchanger.
 
  #12  
Old 11-13-07, 09:50 AM
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"What button are you pressing? Take a photo if you can."

I am at work Until 6PM est but I will provide photos later. The "button" I am pressing had the following stated from the sticker my eventual service plan provider put on the unit. If this gives you a clue without a pic.

If Furnace is not lighting.

1) Make sure tstat is set above current reading.
2) Hit reset Button.
3) If furnace still does not light/function call provider

Something along those lines
 
  #13  
Old 11-13-07, 03:41 PM
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OK so I came Home and tested the system by connecting the wires. The furnace started right up

Here are some pics.

Top Half of System



Pump



This Reset Button, there is also one on the side of the pump which I do not press



Wiring into Breaker Box/ Emergency switch



Close up of Tstat wires labeled

 
  #14  
Old 11-13-07, 03:44 PM
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Top and Bottom

 
  #15  
Old 11-13-07, 05:03 PM
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The furnace started right up as in "the oil burner fired and the blower ran normally"? if yes, then I think you found your problem. Put in a new round honeywell mercury stat.
 
  #16  
Old 11-13-07, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
The furnace started right up as in "the oil burner fired and the blower ran normally"? if yes, then I think you found your problem. Put in a new round honeywell mercury stat.
Does that mean this furnace cannot handle a programmable digital stat?
 
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Old 11-13-07, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
This Reset Button, there is also one on the side of the pump which I do not press


With the new stat, you have to press this button to reset the system?? You never had to press this with the old t-stat?

That button you push has NOTHING to do with the t-stat.. It's the burner..

What was wrong with the old t-stat?
 
  #18  
Old 11-14-07, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
What was wrong with the old t-stat?
OK rundown. New Home first time running system beside testing it. Inspector would do like the techs make it go over room temp, see if it came on check all registers(forced hot air). Turn off

I was never here for the inspector or the oil company's tech. I was at work.

We had an old honeywell mercury round tstat that was all grimey never cleaned & never removed when painting.

So I had never run with it. Wanted a digital programmable tstat for efficiency. Hooked up new one and started having the problem of the system not behaving correctly. continuously on and off every 30 minutes no matter what was set on the tstat even "off"

Does this mean my system supposedly manufactured in 1994 cannot handle a programmable tstat?

Thanks
 
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Old 11-14-07, 05:10 AM
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Ok,

Your system should take that t-stat. no reason why it can't take it.

I am pointing at the burner/primary control on it.. You are pressing the reset button on the burner.. That button has nothing to do with the t-stat... (Any coil guys correct me if I'm wrong)

All the t-stat is an on and off switch on it's own circuit run by a battery.
 
  #20  
Old 11-14-07, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
I am pointing at the burner/primary control on it.. You are pressing the reset button on the burner.. That button has nothing to do with the t-stat... (Any coil guys correct me if I'm wrong)
The reasoning behind hitting the button the first time was to try to keep it from cycling every 30 min. I have not hit it again because it did not correct the problem.

I am starting to believe I have a short in my wiring or for some reason the furnace is malfunctioning. I am here to get opinions before I call a Tech to tell me I had a short, and get charged an arm and a leg.

It is weird. I turn the system on through the tstat. The furnace functions correctly, only the first time getting the room to temp and then turns off. (The heat symbol is lit on the tstat, and then off)

Then about 30 min later the furnace kicks on without the Heat symbol on the tstat for about a minute and then turns off. This then proceeds to continue every 30 min no matter what the tstat tells the furnace to do. "off Position, Heat on Heat off. " This continues to occur until I move the tstat to the "off" position, and use the emergency switch to cut power to the system. Just cutting power does not correct it either.

It is a weird continuous loop. Seems nothing is controlling it.
 
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Old 11-14-07, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
"off Position, Heat on Heat off. " This continues to occur until I move the tstat to the "off" position, and use the emergency switch to cut power to the system. Just cutting power does not correct it either.
Not really clear on that quote.

You're saying the burners is cycling when you have the mode switch on t-stat in OFF?

If so, then what happens if you take the wires off the t-stat?
 
  #22  
Old 11-14-07, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Not really clear on that quote.

You're saying the burners is cycling when you have the mode switch on t-stat in OFF?

If so, then what happens if you take the wires off the t-stat?
Correct

The Only time I take the wires off is when the emergency switch is off. The wires have been off all night, and nothing is happening. Furnace is staying off.

Also when I reconnect the tstat the furnace stays off until it is told to fire once by the tstat. Then as described below the furnace is told to turn off. It turns off but then starts the vicious 30 min cycle.
 
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Old 11-14-07, 06:06 AM
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Did you leave the emergency switch off all night as well?
 
  #24  
Old 11-14-07, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Did you leave the emergency switch off all night as well?

Duh to me yes I did. I will try it when I get home to see what happens.

Two scenarios.

1) If the furnace fires. What could the problem be in your opinion?

2) If the furnace does not fire. What could the problem be in your opinion?

Should I upgrade to a more expensive model tstat?

PS.

Also when I reconnect the tstat the furnace stays off until it is told to fire once by the tstat. Then as described below the furnace is told to turn off. It turns off but then starts the vicious 30 min cycle.

thanks for all your time and help by the way
 
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Old 11-14-07, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
Duh to me yes I did. I will try it when I get home to see what happens.
Hehe I was going to give you a hard time since that switch is your power switch.

Two scenarios.

1) If the furnace fires. What could the problem be in your opinion?
Could be a short in the wire as you brought up earlier. IF this does fire off, remove the R wire at the furnace and try it again.

or

Could be the primary control on the burner.

2) If the furnace does not fire. What could the problem be in your opinion?
Then you may very well have a defective new t-stat.
Should I upgrade to a more expensive model tstat?
You could if you want.. It still a switch to turn on the burner.



Also when I reconnect the tstat the furnace stays off until it is told to fire once by the tstat. Then as described below the furnace is told to turn off. It turns off but then starts the vicious 30 min cycle.
Are you taking the batteries out or leaving it in when you remove the t-stat?


FYI, I gotta get some stuff done out in the yard today.. Today looks like my last day to play in the yard before the snow comes next week! See ya later today.

As always, glad to help out.
 
  #26  
Old 11-14-07, 07:04 AM
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Could be a short in the wire as you brought up earlier. IF this does fire off, remove the R wire at the furnace and try it again.
Will do tonight

Could be the primary control on the burner.
I hope not but seems to be becoming more likely.

Then you may very well have a defective new t-stat.
This is the second one I have tried of this model. Returned the first.

Are you taking the batteries out or leaving it in when you remove the t-stat?
Does it matter? Most of the time I remove them, but I forgot to last night, but luckily it is in the off position reading above what is set and the temp is supposed to be pretty high today


FYI, I gotta get some stuff done out in the yard today.. Today looks like my last day to play in the yard before the snow comes next week! See ya later today.
I probably will not be able to get back to you until after 7:30pm or so EST. Need to work some OT
 
  #27  
Old 11-14-07, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
This is the second one I have tried of this model. Returned the first.
Then I am ruling out the t-stat.



Does it matter? Most of the time I remove them, but I forgot to last night, but luckily it is in the off position
no harm at all. I was just going to rule out if resetting the t-stat is doing anything... Leave the battery in when you return it to the sub base and see what happens.


I looked at your photos again, seeing the t-stat wire, they do look old.. and looking further up from where the wires make contact on the contols, I see a bunch of electrical tape..... I think that is your problem!
 
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Old 11-14-07, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
I looked at your photos again, seeing the t-stat wire, they do look old.. and looking further up from where the wires make contact on the contols, I see a bunch of electrical tape..... I think that is your problem!
The wires are old. I was planning on changing them this Sat with my father. They were covered in cloth but now that is all frayed.

Where may I ask you see electrical tape?
 
  #29  
Old 11-14-07, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
Wiring into Breaker Box/ Emergency switch



Close up of Tstat wires labeled

I am confused by the wiring. I know you should not go by colors but take a look at these photos.

Minus the actual labeled tstat wires at first.

Left Top --> Two blue wires that go to top of emergency switch and then proceed to the top left of the unit by themselves above the caution hot sign.

Left Middle --> Black goes into the emergency switch box.

Left Bottom --> Nothing

Right Top --> Red goes into the emergency switch box.

Right bottom --> Black & White which go into the emergency switch box. Also another blue?

Now look at the tstat wires Rh Left Top & W Right Bottom.

Could that be messed up?

Everything goes into the emergency switch box so it is hard to trace. the black piece which has two black and two blue on top of the emergency switch box. The two black go to the the grey box at the T markings
 
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Old 11-14-07, 01:50 PM
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You talking about that frayed outer cloth sheathing, that is below where the 2 rubber insulated wires (one is red -other is white?) comes out of it? The actual rubber insulation on the wire looks good, to me, anyway, in the photo. The frazzled cloth won't hurt anything. Just clip off the loose frayed stuff, if you don't like the looks of it.

That wire looks like conventional old house wiring wire of the 14 or 12 gauge variety, from the photo. That really is the thermostat wire?
 
  #31  
Old 11-14-07, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
You talking about that frayed outer cloth sheathing, that is below where the 2 rubber insulated wires (one is red -other is white?) comes out of it? The actual rubber insulation on the wire looks good, to me, anyway, in the photo. The frazzled cloth won't hurt anything. Just clip off the loose frayed stuff, if you don't like the looks of it.

Yeah I know. Jay noticed electrical tape and I was asking him if he confused the cloth for electrical tape
 
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Old 11-14-07, 02:02 PM
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This photo..

The wire coming down in from the top.. about 2" in, wad of electrical tape..

If you do put in a new t-stat wire, get the 18-7 wire.

I really can't make out what letters is what on the block where the t-stat wire goes to..

If you do pull new wire, wire up R W G and Y if you want the t-stat to run the fan in the summer to a temp setting, even tho you don't have A/C.
 
  #33  
Old 11-14-07, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post

This photo..

The wire coming down in from the top.. about 2" in, wad of electrical tape..

If you do put in a new t-stat wire, get the 18-7 wire.

I really can't make out what letters is what on the block where the t-stat wire goes to..

If you do pull new wire, wire up R W G and Y if you want the t-stat to run the fan in the summer to a temp setting, even tho you don't have A/C.
Cool I will keep that in mind. The block should have letters on it? I will check those out

Would any of those wires be hot? If the emergency switch is off? I do not want to shock myself or hurt the unit
 
  #34  
Old 11-14-07, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gmogoody View Post
Close up of Tstat wires labeled

Take a good look at the picture. Jay could this have been causing my problem.

The Rh Tstat wire is connected to the W of the black box. See the W real faint.

and the W is connected to the R.

I will let you know how it works when I swap them
 
  #35  
Old 11-14-07, 04:43 PM
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need some info

If your wires were shorted you would have heat when you take off the tstat. I need to know when you had to use the red reset button did the oil burner start. 2nd when you say the heater is coming on every 30 sec or(min) is it the burner or the fan blower. The fan is controled by a limit (fan/high limit) some have settings you can change. I have to look back to see if I can see it in any pict. you have. What mod # tstat do you have. FYI the red reset is for when the control does not see a fire. If it does not see fire in 45 sec. it will trip off.
 
  #36  
Old 11-14-07, 04:59 PM
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With the R and W turned around really shouldn't matter... But I could be wrong!
 
  #37  
Old 11-14-07, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by madcad521 View Post
If your wires were shorted you would have heat when you take off the tstat. I need to know when you had to use the red reset button did the oil burner start. 2nd when you say the heater is coming on every 30 sec or(min) is it the burner or the fan blower. The fan is controled by a limit (fan/high limit) some have settings you can change. I have to look back to see if I can see it in any pict. you have. What mod # tstat do you have. FYI the red reset is for when the control does not see a fire. If it does not see fire in 45 sec. it will trip off.
The red reset button was a bad guess on my part I used it once.

It is the burner because the stack to the chimney is getting warm and you can only feel a little bit of air coming from the register above the unit. The rest of the registers have no air.

Model #: Honeywell RTH230B
 
  #38  
Old 11-14-07, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
With the R and W turned around really shouldn't matter... But I could be wrong!
your right it did not matter.

Oh and when the tstat was off but system with emergency switch on nothing happened.

I am thinking this tstat is sending some weird signals. I may try another manufacturer and model.
 
  #39  
Old 11-14-07, 05:07 PM
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Upgrade to the Honeywell RTH7---- lines. or best yet, FocusPro that has be ordered on line or from a dealer.
 
  #40  
Old 11-15-07, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Upgrade to the Honeywell RTH7---- lines. or best yet, FocusPro that has be ordered on line or from a dealer.

Would the digital signal the Honeywell I have right now be the same as the higher end models?

Is there another brand that people recommend?
 
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