beckett ignitor #746001 replacement

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  #1  
Old 11-13-07, 11:20 AM
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beckett ignitor #746001 replacement

Hi,

I am new to the forum having recently discovered it. But from the advice I have found and used, I am sure if I can get some good information, it will be from here.

I tried turning on my oil furnace this year for the first time and got no flame, just some wisps of smoke. I replaced the nozzle, oil filter, fuel filter, and electrodes (both were cracked but worked last year). With that not resolving the issue I took the advice to not mess areound with the 10,000 volts in the transformer and called in the professionals. This professional came and diagnosed within 3 seconds, after I told him the symptoms, that the what I am calling the ignitor and he is calling the transformer was bad. He did this by laying a screwdriver across the springs and received no arc.
He also checked the fuel pump pressure and it was good.
So, he had to go and find the replacement and calls me back and tells me it's $385 for the part. As the title says, it's a
Beckett #746001. Now, in my research I saw this part or replacement for roughly $40-50 and also reaffirming this by checking again.

So, can someone tell me if:
1. they think this is ridiculous
2. if there is somewhere else back up the line I could check to see if there's more defective parts that could make the cost be that different
3. in your opinion, what could I check next, and how do I do it, assuming this is the situation (there are more defective parts)

I hope that is enough information to possibly direct me. I am considering just replacing the ignitor myself and see if that solves the problem. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin
 
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  #2  
Old 11-13-07, 06:16 PM
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746001

Sorry Kevin, that number doesn't ring any bells nor does it appear in any of my catalogs or on Beckett's web site. That price sounds like the whole burner.
 
  #3  
Old 11-15-07, 09:23 AM
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Grady,
Thanks for checking. As an fyi, I Googled the part and found that a replacement is the 51771U, I believe, it is not in front of me. Anyway, I ended up replacing that and it did fire up! Woohoo! But now it is kicking off huge amounts of black smoke. I have it off now realizing incomplete combustion. I searched the forum and found it's due to not enough oxygen or too much fuel. The nozzle is new and the corret one, so I am assuming it's the air. I am now in the process of trying to find out how to remedy that. Any help is appreciated! Thanks, Kevin
 
  #4  
Old 11-15-07, 04:13 PM
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Black Smoke

Prior to replacing the ignitor, how many times was the reset button pushed? How long did you let it run while blowing black smoke? Make & model of heater? How long since it was brushed & vacuumed?

Just curious, how much did the ignitor cost you?
 
  #5  
Old 11-15-07, 04:29 PM
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Grady,
OK, you caught me I pushed the reset button more than once. But I thought that by replacing the nozzle after that I would have emptied the fuel collected there. I am not sure. As for the cleaning (brushing and vacuuming) I have an appt. for that. It's been 2 years since the last one.
I am actually away for work so I won't be able to get the make and model until at least tomorrow (Friday). The ignitor was $58.
Thanks,
Kevin
 
  #6  
Old 11-15-07, 04:55 PM
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Not right

Something doesn't add up unless that heater has become plugged for some reason. Even pushing the button 2 or 3 times shouldn't result in the heater belching black smoke.

Fair or even good price on the ignitor. Bet you won't call that service company again. I would, on second thought, call them & ask why a part which you bought for $58 costs $385 from them. It would take a pro about 2 minutes to replace it. I would also tell them I was going to tell all of my friends, neighbors, relatives, co-workers, & anyone else who would listen about their pricing. In all fairness, & being generous, let's figure $100 for a service call & $100 for the ignitor. That's just over half of what they were going to charge you.
 

Last edited by Grady; 11-15-07 at 05:05 PM. Reason: On my soapbox
  #7  
Old 11-16-07, 12:39 PM
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Grady,
Yeah, you're right about the fact that I won't be calling them again. And I might add that naming them here and telling them I will could be added to your list of who to tell. But I would want to check the rules here about that first. You may personally be interested as I see you're in DE and that may be within their service range depending on where you are of course.

As for the black smoke, I will be getting into it this weekend as its cold here now and I have time. But one thing I wonder is can the electrode spacing cause this to occur? That's the only other thing I've done relating to this that I thought might be a cause. I mean it appeared right to me following the installation diagrams, but again I'm an amateur.
Thanks
 
  #8  
Old 11-16-07, 02:21 PM
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Electrode spacing

Incorrect electrode setting may cause late ignition or some other problems but not smoke if the furnace is lighting promptly. What is the make & model of the furnace? I might be able to look up the original settings or if it is something I'm familiar with, give you some pointers.
 
  #9  
Old 11-16-07, 04:08 PM
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Grady,

Thanks for clarifying, it was just a thought.

As for the make and model, it's a Thermodynamics VTF-720.
I appreciate any pointers you can give.

Kevin
 
  #10  
Old 11-16-07, 07:44 PM
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Vtf-720

This boiler is supposed to use a Delavan nozzle 1.35 x 80 A at 100# of fuel pump pressure & uses an F-12 burner head. One thing I've learned about Thermo-Dynamics boilers is: Once they start to soot, they can completely plug in a day.
The easiest way to check is to remove the vent pipe. If you see more than just a coating of soot in the top of the boiler, there's a pretty good chance it is plugged.

To do a crude cleaning, without the need to have a soot vac, is: After removing the vent pipe, remove the top cover of the boiler jacket & the box below it. This box is the flue collector. Once it is off, you can pull the baffles out of the tubes. Put them in a bucket, take outdoors & rinse off with a garden hose. Depending upon the length of the baffles vs. the depth of the tubes you may need to remove soot from the tubes. A yard stick works well enough to get you going.


Here is a link to the manual for your boiler:
http://www.thermodynamicsboiler.com/manuals.htm
 
  #11  
Old 11-17-07, 10:03 AM
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uggghhh

Hey Grady,
Things just went from good to bad to worse. I did maintenance as you suggested and there was a lot of soot on top of the boiler, the baffles were clogged, and 5 out of the 18 tubes were blocked. I did the crude cleaning and it was still black, but a little better, at least I imagine. I looked into the fan and it was clean. I was letting it burn a few minutes to see if it cleared and it turned off. I was doing something and assumed maybe therm temp was reached. But when I went to restart it...nothing. I read the manual you sent the link for and pow...dead primary control. Oh, it's only $300. So I guess I'm right back where I started. What a mess. By the way, do I need to replace the whole thing or is there a way to determine interior components that are shot?
Also, should I start a new post, this has morphed into beyond the ignitor?
Kevin
 
  #12  
Old 11-17-07, 05:57 PM
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Primary control

No way is it $300. Do you have a voltmeter & know how to use it?
 
  #13  
Old 11-17-07, 06:10 PM
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Yes it is and yes I do. That's how I determined it was bad.
The manual said to check the voltage between the black and white leads coming in and that was good. Then checking the orange and white leads going to the burner showed no voltage. Manual says this means defective control and to replace. FYI, the primary control is a Honeywell R8182H.
You can use that to double check my pricing if you desire. My best bet so far is a match on ebay currently going for
$25 but doesn't end for 4 days...
 
  #14  
Old 11-17-07, 06:59 PM
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8182H ----Grrr

If there is any way, & there should be, you can use an L7224 & an ordinary primary control (R7184 or R8184) you would be ahead of the game. Not only would it be cheaper, you would not have all of your eggs in one basket, so to speak, AND electronic (not electromechanical) controls with the
L7224 being alot more flexible than the R8182.

Before condenming the control, I'd like you to do a few tests if you don't mind:

Disconnect the cad cell by either removing the wires from the terminals marked F-F (it there are such terminals on your version of the control) OR taking off the wire nuts for those wires, OR snipping the wires fairly close to the control (leave enough so you can splice). After disconnected, try to start the boiler, if still no power between orange & white, check orange to L2, if still nothing, it's shot, presuming the boiler is calling for heat.
 
  #15  
Old 11-18-07, 05:56 PM
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Grrrr squared

Well, I suppose the heater was being pushed the other day and decided to take a day off is all. Or honestly it was maybe a loose connection or something becasue she's back up and firing now!

So we're back to the black smoke and newly found oil leak that appears to be coming from between the burner assembly and the fuel pump. Any new ideas on the smoke?
Or is it time to call in someone??? I'll look into the leak.
 
  #16  
Old 11-19-07, 02:17 PM
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Oil Leak

I suspect you have a leak at the pump which could be pulling extra oil into the burner & causing the smoke. Another possibility is the nozzle is not tight in the nozzle adaptor causing extra oil, smoke, & oil to run backward down the air tube.
Something else to check is the burner end cone. Make sure it is clean, no carbon, & not broken.
 
  #17  
Old 11-19-07, 04:11 PM
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Aha!!

Hey Grady,
I bet you liked seeing that message title! It appears that the leak is somewhere within the nozzle assembly. I will get into more tonight after I get the kids to sleep. But I changed the fuel filter, switched out the nozzle, made sure everything was tight, and cleaned out the area around the nozzle assembly and outside around the pump. I ran it for a few minutes and it still smoked black. I opened the ignitor and there was a pool of fuel under the nozzle assembly. I'll look into it and see if stuff just needs tightening (I didn't notice any cracks) or maybe I'll hust pick up a whole new assembly.
I don't imaginr there all that much. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
  #18  
Old 12-16-07, 12:09 PM
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other smoke source

I have a similar system with a wayne burner and R8182H controller. I had a smoking problem a few years ago and chanced on an oil furnace book which led me to check the squirrel cage which provides air to the burner. It was covered with soot, After a thorough cleaning, I had smoke free combustion again. apparently, good air flow is crucial. I imagine your burner is okay by now, but just thought I would add this.
 
  #19  
Old 12-16-07, 02:55 PM
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Smile adjustment????

just joined..hi all... i have seen that the nozzle assembly has been miss adjusted and that with the angle of the nozzle the fuel splashes back into the tube..... a big problem with smoke is that air shutter adjustment may be incorrect...this can only be set correctly by a tech with test equipment... i have been to several becket oil burner seminars... and their catch fraze(sp) is if your not testing your guessing... just thought i would chime in..
 
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