Replacing Intermittent Pilot Ignition Control

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-17-07, 04:38 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Unhappy Replacing Intermittent Pilot Ignition Control

I currently have a Honeywell S8610H1038. A service tech said this need replacing and I have purchased a Johnson Controls G779LHA-1.

The Honeywell has MV, PV, and MV/PV wires, but there is not a marked MV/PV location on the Johnson. Can anyone help with the wiring for this replacement?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-17-07, 05:07 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Why did you go this instead of Honeywell? Didn't the service tech had part on his van when he was out there?

There is no MV/PV on this line, the where that was on MV/PV has to go to the ground section of the modular.
 
  #3  
Old 11-17-07, 05:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Could not afford the installation fee and this was the part they recommended and they said it would be easy to replace. I think it is wired correctly, but nothing happens when I turn the power on.
 
  #4  
Old 11-17-07, 05:38 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Originally Posted by geotechnical View Post
I think it is wired correctly, but nothing happens when I turn the power on.
It sits there dead, nothing at all? No fan? (turn on fan switch at t-stat)

You follow FIG 6 of the manual of where the wires goes?
 
  #5  
Old 11-17-07, 05:46 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Just dead. The manual says fig 3 or 4 for replacing Honeywell S8610H, which seems to match the original wiring. Sorry, don't know too much about this, but figured it would work since they said it would be easy to replace.
 
  #6  
Old 11-17-07, 06:30 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
You're right.. FIG 3 and 4..

Do you have a fan switch on the t-stat? And you switch to fan ON and still dead?

If yes, make sure you turned the power on, blower door in place.
 
  #7  
Old 11-17-07, 06:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
The fan does work
 
  #8  
Old 11-17-07, 07:09 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Do you have a meter to check for 24 volts going to THS 2?
 
  #9  
Old 11-17-07, 07:13 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
yes, but there is no wire going to THS 2. there wasn't one for the honeywell.
 
  #10  
Old 11-17-07, 07:25 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Where did you put the wire from TH W on the old one?
 
  #11  
Old 11-17-07, 07:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
There was no wire there on the old one
 
  #12  
Old 11-17-07, 07:31 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Ok, how about 24v? (going to pull up the info on this)
 
  #13  
Old 11-17-07, 07:59 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
I pulled the file up on the Honeywell, and all of them was having a wire going to TH W...

What was wrong with it before?
 
  #14  
Old 11-18-07, 05:35 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
It wasn't working properly. Last year it would turn on after repeatedly messing with the thermostat, of and on over and over, then it would kick in. This year it seems I have to actually turn off the power at the furnace itself, wait, then only sometimes it will work, but not often enough. Maybe once a day. All of the thermostat wires go into a lower box (maybe the blower), then wires come out of there but I can't really see where they go. The honeywell had a marked spot TH W, but there wasn't even a connector in that location.
 
  #15  
Old 11-18-07, 05:43 AM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Hope you made notes...

What wire went where on the Honeywell??

Also make and model of the furnace.
 
  #16  
Old 11-18-07, 06:21 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Please bear with me in my descriptions...

Kenmore 867.76703 furnace

PV, MV/PV, and MV are label on furnace and corresponding wires went to corresponding locations on module

green ground wire from near ignition area to slot 4 GND (burner)

Slot 5 (24V (GND) appeared to run to the C node where the thermostat wires connect to furnace

Slot 6 (24V) went to part labeled fan limit then a wire from fan limit goes up to a small black circular part (HQ100....) and wire leaving that part goes to Node W where thermostat connects

Slot 9 (spark) went to ignitor area

Slots 7 and 8 had no wires
 
  #17  
Old 11-18-07, 11:44 AM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,021
See the other post btw- the G779LHA-1 crosses over to the old HW module. It was the first thing I checked.
 
  #18  
Old 11-18-07, 12:49 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Well that worked a little, at least the module is responding. But same problem as with old one, it clicks for a while, sometimes lights, sometimes doesn't, but no heat ever comes out.
 
  #19  
Old 11-18-07, 12:58 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,021
Check the air proving switch; try cleaning the flame sensor rod.
 
  #20  
Old 11-18-07, 02:15 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
I'm not entirely sure what either of those are. I think the sensing rod is part of the ignitor and doesn't seem to be easily accessible. Have found pics of air proving switchs online and don't see anything that looks like that. The pilot is lighting but the buner does not come on now at all.
 
  #21  
Old 11-18-07, 04:53 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Is the flame hitting the flame sensor rod?

Rod may need to be taken out, and cleaned with scotch brite pad.. DO NOT use sand paper.

I tried to pull your model #, and said not a valid #.. is that all the numbers?
 
  #22  
Old 11-18-07, 05:05 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Model No. is 867.767031

I either can't really see the flame sensor rod or there isn't one? I can't see the lower portion of the flame but it is about 3 inches high and I can see all of the area within the upper 2 inches and there doesn't appear to be a rod in that area.
 
  #23  
Old 11-18-07, 06:18 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Ok, go this web site.. http://www3.sears.com

enter your model #

next.

next..

then click on view diagram... #10 is the flame sensor... right next to the pilot light.
 
  #24  
Old 11-18-07, 06:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
OK...I can see the bottom of it, but not the top, it is obstructed by other parts, but from where I can see the flame is, it should definitely be reaching it. I can access the two screws on the front, which I figure is how I would remove it??
 
  #25  
Old 11-18-07, 06:32 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Looks like it.. Yeah looking at the drawing for non-functing part, #17 needs to get out of the way.
 
  #26  
Old 11-19-07, 05:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Good Evening...

Furnace was off all day, came home and turned on power, burner lit for a few seconds then control went into recycle mode and burner never lit again. Tried turning power off then on, and bruner won't light again. I cleaned the sensor some with steel wool, not sure if it needs a vigorous scrubbing. Reassembled, and no change.

Any other suggestions?
 
  #27  
Old 11-19-07, 05:52 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
I want to be clear here.

The pilot lights, but the main burner is not?

or

The pilot don't light at all?
 
  #28  
Old 11-19-07, 05:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
I believe so. There is a small blue flame when I turn on the power every time. Then the control clicks for a while, then the flame turns off and the control flashes that it is in recycle mode.
 
  #29  
Old 11-19-07, 06:15 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Ok, so the ignitor is still clicking when the pilot is lit?
 
  #30  
Old 11-19-07, 06:22 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Something is clicking, yes, when the pilot is lit. Just went to check it out again, and the burner lit for a few seconds, shut off, but the pilot stayed on and clicking continued for a few seconds, then nothing.
 
  #31  
Old 11-19-07, 06:27 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Make sure you have a good connetion on the wire from the flame sensor, and on the control.
 
  #32  
Old 11-19-07, 07:00 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
As far as I can tell the connections are good
 
  #33  
Old 11-20-07, 05:25 AM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Well, leaning towards the pilot flame sensor rod.

Unless John has something else we should be looking at?
 
  #34  
Old 11-20-07, 07:22 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Maybe this model utilizes the pilot assembly to feedback current to the board so the board can take the next step to activate the main gas valve. Some furnaces with spark ignition, to a pilot flame, woirk this way. I think with such a model you have to clean up the pilot hood area in the way one does a flame sensor, IF this unit has no flame sensor down there. (I have not reviewed all posts so excuse me if I'm off on this one.)
 
  #35  
Old 11-20-07, 11:44 AM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,021
Look around for a second flame sensor. It would be on the main burners somewhere to prove that the main burners fired.
 
  #36  
Old 11-20-07, 05:10 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Don't see a second sensor
 
  #37  
Old 11-20-07, 08:18 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,021
OK I looked up your old module, it used an intregal flame sensor, iow- no second rod. On the new module, what did you do with the jumper from intregal to sense? Leave it in or take it out? Do you have a wire going from gnd on the module to the pilot burner? Small blue flame at the pilot burner? How small? Frankly, I think your old module is probably ok and you need to clean or replace the pilot burner/sensor assembly.
 
  #38  
Old 11-21-07, 07:00 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
What can be a real fooler to many people who HAVE heard of a (normal/typical rod type?)flame sensor, is that there are flame sensors that use the pilot assembly itself and some even use the slicone carbide HSI ignitor itself. It's just nice to know these things.
 
  #39  
Old 11-23-07, 07:14 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 19
Left jumper in place. Yes there is a ground from module to pilot. The flame is about 2 inches high.
 
  #40  
Old 11-23-07, 08:29 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,021
You're going to have to measure the microamp draw from the flame sensor to the module or just replace the pilot burner/ignitor/sensor assembly and the ignition cable. Measuring the flame current would be best because it will pinpoint the problem. The Johnson module needs to see a minimum of .15 microamperes.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes