CARRIER furnace on then off


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Old 01-12-08, 05:21 AM
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CARRIER furnace on then off

hello

i have a 11 y/o carrier funace, i can't find the model # on it.

the burner fires up and works normal, as does the vent fan and blower. after the blower starts up, about 30 seconds the burner will turn off, and the blower will just keep on running much longer than it did when working properly.

the LED blinks a code 33. 3 slower flashes, then 3 faster flashes. the troubleshooting sticker says = "limit or flame roll-out switch is open" . i checked the fuse, though it says fusable link. i'm guessing they are the same thing.

is this the part ? it says "limit thermostat" (half way down the page). the one on the right $139.54


PLEASE HELP !!! wife is disabled, and its getting cold in here.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 05:34 AM
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is there a way to run it in a test mod to get some heat ? i am running the stove for heat right now

trouble shooting links/advice ?
i am searching right now.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 06:11 AM
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How's the air filter, when was it last replaced? is it clean?
Is it perhaps a newer filter that is too restrictive?
Try running the unit for a few minutes with the air filter removed. If the problem ceases, then you've got your answer.

If the burners go OFF on over-temperature, you have two kinds of limits, manual-and-automatic reset. Flame-rollout switches are typically of the manual-reset type; if they're triggered you'll have to manually reset them.

But most likely is the high limit (which should be auto-reset)

You checked the fuse? you mean the fuse on the board that looks like a car-fuse? That's neither your high-limit nor your rollouts.

Can't help you much with info regarding the test-pins w/o having the model number. Look on the board for pins labeled "test"...usually come in pairs and one is required to jump them for a second or so to get the unit in test mode.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 06:29 AM
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the filter is fine. i also have the blower cover off, thats where the board with the car fuse is at (i have the safety switch taped closed). and the blower works just fine, tons of air movement and no noises etc.

my suspected switch has no reset on it. i han only find one reset button on a sensor. its up by the vent just before it exits the furnace.

the furnace main power is off, has been all night. the blower will not shut off. though i have not kept main power on a long time, few mins max.

where do you think the model # would be ? i looked all over. what would it look like ? would pics help ?

also. i keep seeing "fusable link" in my search. i have yet to see a fusable link. i am an auto mech. i have also replugged all connections. the wire to the suspected switch has this diode (?) right by it (left terminal)
http://www.netrusher.com/fuselink.jpg

THANX
 
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Old 01-12-08, 06:40 AM
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Old 01-12-08, 06:52 AM
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this pic. the sensor with the 2 orange wires. between the terminals, you can see the reset (?). that is the only reset i can find.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ss/funace2.jpg

this pic. is my suspected sensor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/furnace3.jpg

the part store is only open for a few hours more
 
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Old 01-12-08, 06:59 AM
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Try putting [temporarilly] a jumper across the limit switch terminals. I have dealt with some Carrier 58SX furnaces in which as soon as the limit switch opens the Blower Control Center stops getting its juice [24V] which in turn will turn ON the house blower non-stop. The "Blower Control Center" is a solid-state time delay relay for the house blower.

If that does not work, then your fusible link could very well be the problem, maybe it broke ( put a temporary jumper on it...but if the break is internal and you can't see it, you may need a new board). Look at the pic below. The red arrow is pointing to the fusible link. This is a board on a Carrier furnace...not necessarily same as yours, but gives you an idea of what it looks like.



If either the high limit or the fusible link open up, the house blower kicks ON non-stop
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:04 AM
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THANX for the reply. i'm getting desperate.

i'm not exactly sure what the limit switch is. do you see it in my pics ?
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:12 AM
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This pic of yours shows the limit
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/furnace3.jpg

Is the one hanging at the top of the pic, with the two red-colored wraps that look like little arms that hold that small cylindrical silver piece
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:14 AM
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i do not see any fusable link that looks broken, burnt, or discolored an any way. the board "looks" fine.
i tried to take it loose, to look at the back side. but its in there pretty good, and i don't want to force or break it.


btw. i put a 4 amp fuse in, thats all i had. had a 3 amp. problem ? i would think not, but i don't "know".
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:19 AM
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great, thanx. thats what i thought, and thats the suspected problem. now. it has that diode looking things on the terminal. do i jump before(wire side) or after(switch side) that ?

does the car fuse control that ? if so, would blowing the fuse by touching it to ground, damage that switch ?
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:22 AM
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can i disconnect 1 terminal at touch/connect it to the other ?
i can't find a jumper wire.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:33 AM
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i just jumped it. didn't work does that mean that switch is probably ok ?
 
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Old 01-12-08, 07:54 AM
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i see you are not online now. but. you have help immensely !!!

i now have heat !!!

i jumped after the diode thingy, no go. i jumped before it, no go. i cleaned the wire before the diode and tried again. its now heating my home.

now, what is bad. the switch, or the diode thingy (what is that ) ?
 
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Old 01-12-08, 08:01 AM
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I'm sorry, I'm back again...Had to rush preparing breakfast for a few souls over here.

I'm not sure what you mean with the "diode thingy"

When you say "the switch" I guess you're referring to the limit switch.

If the furnace is firing the limit seems to be doing its job. I'd blame the "diode thingy"

Take a close-up photo of it and another with it installed in its proper place. That'll help me.

Also, w/o the M/N it's quite limited what I can do for you. We got lucky this time around that your unit was a Carrier and with similar components to the one I was using as a reference.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 08:14 AM
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its the diode thingy. maybe thats a fuse ?

i jump after it (switch side) no good, still code 33. i jumped before it (wire side) and it works.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/furnace4.jpg
 
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Old 01-12-08, 08:24 AM
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i'm looking in the phone book for the # of the parts place.
but i can't find what to look under. any ideas ? its not under hvac, all i get is conractors and repair guys.

the diode thingy. see my last pics. it just to the right of the aligator clip. its a cylinder with a red bullet looking thingy.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 08:31 AM
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On that pic you posted earlier, the one with the limit hanging loose, I can see a couple of stickers, one on the metal wall left of the hanging limit, and one more on the metal floor/plate right underneath the hanging limit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/furnace3.jpg
this unit's M/N may be in one of them.

I'd buy a 3A fuse and replace the 4A fuse you have now installed. It is supposed to protect the board from shorts. 3 amps is what the mfr had, so 3A should go back there. In case of a short or an unexpected electrical overload, 4A may (just may) be a bit too much for some of the electronic components there.

I imagine you re-assembled your unit now. Pls take a pic showing the limit and the "thingy" thing. It may just be the defective component. If it was part of the limit switch prior to your troubleshooting work, the limit switch will have to be ordered.

If I have the M/N of the unit, I "may" be able to search for the schematic and possibly parts list too.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 08:46 AM
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i believ its a "58PAV" . i don't know why i didn't think of this sooner. but the manuals for it are right next to it, Doh.

you can't see it in my last pic ?

i'll get a better one.
 
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Old 01-12-08, 08:59 AM
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i'm having trouble getting a good pic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/furnace5.jpg
 
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Old 01-12-08, 09:28 AM
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Carrier parts - Totaline

Found the manual for your unit...he fusible link is indeed the defective component [not field repairable]. The schematic says "when used" you'll see this switch on upflow units. You're o.k. to keep on running your furnace with it bypassed until you get the replacement part.

Order the part from "Totaline".
http://www.totaline.com/index.cfm
They sell Carrier Stuff
Type your zip code and you'll get your local Totaline (a.k.a. "Carrier") distributor.

But w/o your FULL M/N they won't be able to help.
And I'm not sure they'll sell it to homeowners. You've got to talk your way thru it
 
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Old 01-12-08, 09:38 AM
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so. your saying thats a fuse ? does it say what amp it is ? i'm thinkin 3 amp.

you are a contractor ? what do ya think this would cost if i had called someone ?

THANX for the help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Old 01-12-08, 09:47 AM
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It's a fuse, so it's good to have a new one in place soon. As per schematic, it protects the board from current overloads.

I don't know the rating, nor if it is a semi-conductor of sorts; the manual does not say it. Buy an identical replacement, don't specify it yourself

I'm not a contractor, you may click on my name and see the member profile. But I deal with contractors all the time and do take care of quite a few systems [consulting/service work].

How much would have that cost to you?
hard to say, it depends where in the country you are. But in my area, being a weekend, $150 for the tech putting his boots on the welcome mat outside your home and from then on maybe a flat rate or hourly + parts (varies from company to company)...likely around $300 by the time all was said and done.
 
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Old 01-13-08, 09:52 AM
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THANX. i'll let ya know how it pans out. i gotta find where to get that fuse.
 
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Old 01-13-08, 10:34 AM
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For future reference, for the rest of us

Hi, CondoOwner and PFlor-
Glad y'all were able to work it out! I read your post a couple times, and couldn't quite keep up with you. Sounds like the high limit switch was OK. Is the fusible link the trade or actual name for the "diode thingy"? I'd like to know since I have a similar furnace, and in the future someone else may want / need to know to help them diagnose a problem.

Knowing how to jump that part could really save somebody's day! Particularly since you can jump it while waiting for a replacement part to arrive.

Thanks,
Dave O
 
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Old 01-13-08, 10:46 AM
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i looked in my service manual (forgot i had it). it indeed says its either a fuse or circuit break, field installed. it looks like no fuse i have ever seen before.

i am on ebay, looking at parts. i'm going to stock parts for this furnace. so next time i can troubleshoot, ask here. and if that fails, i can start swapping parts.
 
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Old 01-13-08, 01:36 PM
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Consider a spare HSI

I was very glad to have a spare hot surface ignitor on hand, some time back. Ours failed and I had the spare in place before my wife knew we had a problem.
 
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Old 01-13-08, 02:09 PM
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CZ...
Limit was o.k. the defective part's formal name is "fusible link". I'll get the phone for the Carrier HQs where one can request part numbers as well as info on local Carrier Parts Dealers.
 
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Old 01-16-08, 03:18 PM
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THANK YOU ALL!!! I fixed it with your help!

I just read through this discussion, did the "jumper cable" fix and now my Carrier cranks up fine. This info saved me an expensive service visit - my whole family thanks all of you who contributed to this thread. I'd like to buy you all a beer!
Joe
 
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Old 01-17-08, 06:47 AM
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You're welcome!

Although I didn't contribute to the technical discussion, I'm sure I can speak for the others and say "You're welcome, glad to help!"

This forum has helped me a ton, too, and saved me a fistful of dollars. The best way to "repay" is to help others out whenever you can!

As for the beer, I'll take mine long distance- I'm kinda partial to Heinies, maybe you could have one for me.

Welcome to the forums!
Dave O
 
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Old 01-18-08, 08:48 AM
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Hi, I have similar issue (code 33) with my WeatherMaker 8000. The furnace won't ignite and the house blower is non-stop running to blow cold air. I tried to jump the Limit switch from the wire side (outside). No good. I measure the voltage between two terminals, should I get 24 volts? If it is, then maybe the transformer (convert AC110V to DC24V) went bad? Any suggestion? Thanks.
 
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Old 01-18-08, 09:37 AM
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The model of my furnace is Carrier 58WAV.
Is there a quick way to determine if the transformer is OK. Can I simply measure the volts between thermostat terminals? I am afraid of destroying the control board.
 
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Old 01-18-08, 09:46 AM
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And also how do I turn off the blower? It keeps running as long as I turn on the heater. Thanks!
 
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Old 01-18-08, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by benben
Hi, I have similar issue (code 33) with my WeatherMaker 8000. The furnace won't ignite and the house blower is non-stop running to blow cold air. I tried to jump the Limit switch from the wire side (outside). No good. I measure the voltage between two terminals, should I get 24 volts? If it is, then maybe the transformer (convert AC110V to DC24V) went bad? Any suggestion? Thanks.
Since your blower is running non-stop and they are energized through a relay (stand alone or via control-board) which runs on 24V, your transformer should be good
 
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Old 01-18-08, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by pflor
Since your blower is running non-stop and they are energized through a relay (stand alone or via control-board) which runs on 24V, your transformer should be good
Ah, so happy to see your reply. I have tried your tips to jumper the switch. It doesn't stop the blower. I check the fuse (both on the control board and the one that goes into Limit switch (red wire), they seem to be OK. What else I should try?
 
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Old 01-18-08, 10:05 AM
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BTW, since I measured the volts between two red wire and got low volts, that's why I thought the transformer did not supply the DC to the control board.
 
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Old 01-18-08, 10:43 AM
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Which blower is running non-stop...the tiny induction blower or the big house blower?
 
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Old 01-18-08, 10:46 AM
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O.K. sorry, house blower...Here's why the house blower is running continuously:

CODE-33, which you report below, means: Limit or Flame Rollout switch open. These are safety switches that open up on an overtemperature condition. When such happens, the house blower kicks-ON to cool off the heat exchanger of the furnace. We have to check the safeties, one of the rollouts may have tripped
 
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Old 01-18-08, 11:13 AM
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troubleshoot the rollouts

Your circuit board should have (amongst other things) a connector with 9 terminals (labeled 1-thru-9) The 2 rollouts, limit switch and fuse link are all connected in series [one after another] in a loop that starts on terminal-1 and ends on terminal-7 of this 9-terminal-connector I just mentioned above.

From terminal-7 a red wire comes out and connects to the first rollout switch, then the next rollout switch, then the fuse link (which you have been trying to troubleshoot), then the limit switch, and finally, from the limit switch another red wire goes and connects back to terminal-1.

The rollouts are of the manual reset type. They look like the one shown below


You've need to push the little red push button the red arrow is pointing at.
 
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Old 01-18-08, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by pflor
Your circuit board should have (amongst other things) a connector with 9 terminals (labeled 1-thru-9) The 2 rollouts, limit switch and fuse link are all connected in series [one after another] in a loop that starts on terminal-1 and ends on terminal-7 of this 9-terminal-connector I just mentioned above.

From terminal-7 a red wire comes out and connects to the first rollout switch, then the next rollout switch, then the fuse link (which you have been trying to troubleshoot), then the limit switch, and finally, from the limit switch another red wire goes and connects back to terminal-1.

The rollouts are of the manual reset type. They look like the one shown below


You've need to push the little red push button the red arrow is pointing at.
Thank you so much for this detailed explanation. I get more understanding of how this is connected.
It turns out that the problem is the limit switch. It is opened. After it is taken out (disconnected from that two red wires first) and shake it for awhile, then reconnect it. Now it is closed and the furnace is back to work. I did notice that the igniter lights up but not start to burn the very first time. However it did the 2nd time. Is that a problem of my pressure switch?
 
 

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