Blower running, Hot Surface Ignitor not.

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Old 03-12-08, 05:54 AM
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Angry Blower running, Hot Surface Ignitor not.

I have a Carrier 9 years old. Blower runs but HSI does not light up. Replaced it and it still does'nt work. Tested voltage on wires that connect to HSI and it read a 0. What should my next step be, First home trying to teach myself. Also my led light is blinking a 33,which i believe is a flame rollout switch open.Thanks.
 
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Old 03-12-08, 06:10 AM
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The complete M/N for this furnace will be of great help.

Also, pics with the cover door removed so that the guts can be seen (controls, burners, gas valve, wire harnesses, etc.), will be quite helpful too.

Yeah, a flame rollout that has tripped could cause the ignitor not to glow. Find the little devil and push its reset button (here is when a pic would help, to show you which one is it).

The real question is...
Would this be just a nuisance tripping?
or an indication of something more serious?

How old is the furnace?
 
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Old 03-12-08, 01:37 PM
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Model # is 58PAV090-14. Im not sure if I pushed the flame rollover button or not. I noticed a little black wheel in front that says rotation on it, do you know what it is? It is not moving when I kick on the furnace.
 
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Old 03-12-08, 02:17 PM
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Does the inducer blower comes ON when the thermostat calls for heat?

The normal sequence of events on a call for heat should be as follows:
1- t-stat calls for heat
2- inducer blower starts and continues running thru length of call for heat
3- ignitor warms-up (glows)
4- gas valve opens, ignition takes place
5- ignitor is de-energized
6- flame sensing starts and continues thru length of call for heat

A rollout switch should look similar to the one shown below

push on the little red button to reset it.

There should be a 9-pin terminal connector on the board (should look like a plug with many wires on it); on this connector there should be a red wire coming off of terminal #1 that connects to the Limit, and another red wire off of terminal #7. I need you to tell me how many components are connected (in series) in between these two red wires.
You should have at the very minimum "2", one is the limit, the other looks like a little fuse and is called the fusible link. If you have others besides the 2 just mentioned, those are the rollouts.

If you place a jumper between these two red wires (the ones coming off of terminals 7 and 1) and IF one of the safeties in this loop IS the problem, the unit will fire-up.

I can't mentally picture that black wheel you mention. Post pictures. Where are my pictures?
 
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Old 03-12-08, 03:07 PM
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The blower at the bottom of the unit comes on. Not sure if thats the inducer blower your talking about.it's big. I cant find rollout switch anywhere.You can see the black wheel thing on the pics, is it combustion/vent fan?

Here's the link to pics, copy into your browser -

share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AZsnDJy2cNmLFFA

BTW-how did you attach your picture?
 
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Old 03-12-08, 06:37 PM
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Blower at the bottom is the main blower (the one that brings air thru the house via registers)

The black wheel at top in the inducer blower

I don't see any rollout switches either (some units have them, some not).

On the pic below pls look at the tips (arrowheads) of the two red arrows I have drawn. They point at the limit switch terminals and to the FL (fusible link).

The limit switch itself is inside the furnace's heat exchanger, you can't see it, you can only see its 2 contacts.

The FL is a tiny metal cylinder with two metal legs (wires), the left one is soldered to the right terminal of the limit switch while the right leg is soldered to the a red wire.

Put a jumper as follows: hook left end of the jumper to the left terminal of limit switch; hook right end of jumper to the right of FUSIBLE LINK (the side soldered to the red wire). Call for heat from the t-stat; if unit fires, either the limit or the FL is bad. I'll tell you how to identify which one of them is bad after I get feedback from you on this test.

 
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Old 03-12-08, 07:56 PM
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I believe you will find the blower will run continuously if any limits are open, including the fuse link.
 
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Old 03-13-08, 02:48 AM
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I second that belief of yours. So as soon as Dew performs the test I suggested in my pervious posting (#6) we'll know if that's all that it was. Those FL's in Carriers tend to go bad after a few years of work.
 
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Old 03-13-08, 05:23 AM
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Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what exactly do you mean when you say put a jumper on it? Do you mean some sort a jumper starter with attachments? If so what do I need to perform this? Thanks.
 
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Old 03-13-08, 05:47 AM
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Dew:
If you are not mechanically inclined, the safest thing for you to do would be to call someone for help.

Having said that, the pic below shows what a jumper wire looks like. They don't have to be as long as the one in the pic., a 6-inch long jumper would suffice for your purposes. The two ends of the jumper (where the alligator clips are attached) is what I say should hook to the terminals mentioned in my last post.

 
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Old 03-13-08, 09:30 AM
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Ive called to some places, by chance do you know where I can buy a jumper wire? Or do I need to make my own?
 
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Old 03-13-08, 10:36 AM
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Radio Shack sells them
 
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Old 03-13-08, 03:22 PM
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Talking

YOU ARE THE BEST!! I hooked up the jumpers like you said and it lighted up. When I killed it with the kill switch and turned it back on it didnt. Only worked when thermo started it. Now what should I do? Can I keep those jumpers on for the mean time?
 
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Old 03-13-08, 05:22 PM
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I believe it should be the FL the safety that is defective, so let's proceed with one more test to see if that's the case or not.

Hook up now the two ends of that jumper wire to the two ends of the FL.
If after doing this the furnace again works well on a call for heat from the t-stat, then that's your defective component. Else, IF the furnace goes back to its previous troubling behavior, then the limit switch is the defective component.

Perform the test and tell me what happens.

And please DO NOT even think of permanently leaving the jumper there. Jumpers are used for troubleshooting purposes only, they are not meant to be left there like homeowners...they're tenants only.
 
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Old 03-13-08, 05:44 PM
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I thought I already connected to the FL. Now Im not sure if I connected it to the spot you were talking about. Here"s where I connected it.

Copy in your browser

share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AZsnDJy2cNmLFNg
 
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Old 03-13-08, 06:11 PM
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See the pic below.


What you have tested is the LIMIT.
But no further testing is needed. Since the furnace worked (and worked well) with the jumpers the way you have them in the picture above, your defective component is the LIMIT SWITCH. Again, there is no need for any further testing.

Have the full model number of your furnace handy and order directly from Totaline, they are the official Carrier parts store: 1-800-973-3345 You will be asking for a replacement Limit switch.
If I were you, just to be on the safe side, I would also order a FUSIBLE LINK. Maybe the new limit comes with the FL, then again, maybe not...ask about it.

Good luck!
 
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Old 03-13-08, 06:16 PM
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Limit Switch

Just for clarification...
The red arrow that reads "Limit Switch" is actually pointing at the terminals of the limit switch.

Notice that brown plate to which the two terminals are attached to? Notice also the two screws that are holding that brown plate in place?

If you unscrew those two screws, you will be able to pull out the brown plate. The Limit is actually on the opposite end, facing the inside of the furnace.

But you don't need to remove it now. Do so when the new part arrives.
 
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Old 03-13-08, 06:24 PM
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Thank You so much for your help! Im a new father, newlywed, with not alot of extra cash lying around, so again, thankyou. By the way, is it hard to replace? - then again I'll find out soon. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
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Old 03-13-08, 06:32 PM
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It's a piece of cake replacing it...but don't tell your wife, just so to her you smell like a rose and are her hero after changing it.

Oh well...time to go to sleep. Getting late here in NJ
 
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