Pilot keeps going out-HELP


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Old 03-15-08, 06:34 AM
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Pilot keeps going out-HELP

Last week the gas company came over and moved my meter from my garage to the outside. They turned the gas off when they were doing it. They had to start and relight the furnace when they left. Now everytime my furnace is off for more than normal (i.e. a warm day like yesterday) the pilot goes out and the furnace has to be relit. Help! p.s. I live in MI so it was nice and icy in my house this morning when I woke up.)
 
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Old 03-15-08, 08:19 AM
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I would say first that whatever work the gas company did outside is in all likelihood completely unrelated to the problem you have at hand. This I'd guess is coincidental.

Having said that, please provide the full M/N and name of the MFR of your furnace, as you could have there either a standing pilot or an intermittent pilot ignition system and knowing the M/N may help clarify it.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 08:34 AM
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The furnace is a Janitrol. I just opened it and looked inside. There was no flame whatsoever. Then my husband turned it on a higher temp setting and it lit a flame but wouldn't light the whole furnace (kept making a ticking sound) and after a minute, and the whole furnace not lighting, it just stopped.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 08:48 AM
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Ahhh! So it has an Intermittent Pilot Ignition system.

The flame you see is called the "Pilot Burner Flame". Its job is to ignite the main burners so you get heat.

But a component in your furnace called the "board" will not allow this to happen unless someone first tells him (or her ) that the pilot burner is ON. The ticking sound you hear is the way a safety device (a flame sensor OR a gorund electrode) is telling the board that there seems to be NO flame there.

Now we know that a flame is there (you stated this much), but the sensor/electrode does not think so. For me to be able to help you further (since I'm not physically present there), besides knowing that you have a Janitrol, I also need this Janitrol Furnace's "full" Model Number. And some pictures of the furnace (wiring, board, burners, etc.) will be helpful too.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 08:54 AM
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Model # GUE080-4 Rev S. Thanks for all your help and speedy replies. I will try pictures in a minute if that doesn't help.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:10 AM
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Your furnace is hovering the 20-yr birthday (give or take), there's not service manual for it, but I see that it has an electronic module, likely a Honeywell, Robertshaw or White Rodgers (I hope is a Honeywell). So I will need you to give me the full M/N of the module too...the pictures could help here if you're not sure what-or-where to look for it.

This first generation of furnaces with electronic ignition had not at that time seeing yet the birth of mfr-specific electronic boards and used box-like electronic modules, universal components, simpler to troubleshoot.

I may be leaving soon "dw" is literally dragging me out to the mall to get a suit for a wedding we have to go to in the PM...I'd rather go in jeans and t-shirt but she would not budge, or stay home (and she'd not budge there either). And she's the boss, you know?
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:22 AM
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It's made by united technologies B13707-24
HSC electronics 1003-300
90 sec lockout
5 min retry
9035

Thats how it reads. Have fun at your wedding. I get to be the fix it person here.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:25 AM
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I took pictures but am having trouble posting them. Oh and it does say intermittant pilot. If I had looked better to start with I wouldn't be wasting all your time, sorry.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:54 AM
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Here's the pics:





 
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Old 03-15-08, 12:35 PM
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pilot burner assembly clean-up

Let's start with a clean-up job of the pilot burner assembly. The pic below is for your furnace

Item #2 is the pilot burner assembly, item #3 is the module.
Do you think you could take another picture of the module? I can only see some (but not all) of the terminal connectors, and I most certainly cannot read the labels (Ground, Valve, Ign, etc.)

At any rate, below is a doc I prepared for another person in this forum (the pic below is not your burner...but pretty similar and same function). It shows you how to clean-up the guts of your pilot burner and tells you why. Follow the directions shown. Just make sure you're gentle and not kink the aluminum tube which is in charge of carrying gas to the pilot burner.


The pilot burner flame must be strong and completely engulf the electrode in front of it, else you get that tick-tick sound. Often the problem is crusty flakes of metal inside the orifice. If the clean-up does not do the trick, we'll proceed to run tests on the module (hence the importance of being able to have a good view of it), and finally the pilot-burner gas-line pressure.

This first hands-on clean-up job should keep you busy for awhile...lucky you! I on the other hand will be bored to death at that function.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 01:43 PM
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Hey thanks. I'll switch spots with you. You fix it and I'll go, although I'm sure you dw might not be too happy-lol.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 02:02 PM
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Can't get good pics-in a bad spot
 

Last edited by lmb0114; 03-15-08 at 02:26 PM. Reason: correct pics
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Old 03-15-08, 02:08 PM
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It did light on it's own once and that was after I fiddled around with the (I think) spark electrode. It's the wire that goes directly in the path of the pilot when it's trying to light. I don't think I'm daring enough to take anything major apart. I'll probably blow up my house.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 02:16 PM
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New clue. When it's trying to light and ticking, if you blow in there where the gas comes out it lights.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 08:05 PM
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I hear you. I believe the pilot flame is a bit on the weak side, likely b/c of a dirty orifice. When you blow on it is possible that the flame aligns itself with the ground electrode...if so, the ticking will stop and the burners fire.

You'll need someone helping you there, taking apart that pilot assembly for a clean-up job.

You could have low gas pressure in the pilot line...you could have a loose wire there... you could also have a bad module. But step one is to take care of the pilot assembly.
 
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Old 10-13-09, 12:34 PM
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Was there ever a resolution to this problem?

I am having a similar issue and I am posting about it on this thread:

http://forum.doityourself.com/gas-oi...-lighting.html

Any further help or help or input on my situation would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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Old 10-13-09, 06:27 PM
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I thought you said you would try what Skip suggested, over on the other thread, and post back on Thursday. He was correct in his assessment. Do you know that some pilots do not even have a flame sensor and rely entirely on the flame hitting the metal to create that rectification? And even some HSI systems use the HSI itself to accomplish this.

To help people here, it is best if according to symptoms, one can rule out certain obvious things first before we type an entire epistle as to what every possible problem could be with a furnace. And some of us have taken such plunges already, and then never hear from the poster again.
 
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Old 10-13-09, 06:40 PM
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Yeah I am going to try what Skip suggested. I was just wondering if anything ever came of this thread. Since I am forced to be out of town the next couple of days all I have time to do is sit and stew over this issue so I am just trying to absorb different ideas that I can try when i get back. I agree it makes the most sense to go step by step eliminating things.
 
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Old 10-13-09, 06:59 PM
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Talking

Without rereading the thread from top to bottom, as it is getting late for me - Depending on when a pilot or main flame goes out, or a sporadic ignition .......when it comes to pilot igniton systems one shuld always make sure every single thing regarding the pilot assembly is good. And also, as with any furnace today, that the pressure switch function is trying to pass current thru it when the call for heat is there(and that the current does not go away during the call for heat), and that nothing odd is going on with the thermostat where power is being lost when it should not be. All these tests are easy and take only seconds or minutes to confirm.

And you want every vacuum line to be tight, every electrical connection to be checked, even if you have to remove then reinsert - that there is no crud in the inducer housing nipple that the pressure switch vacuum tube plugs into -that condensate drain line is clear both going to the drain and back up into the furnace itself. To mention some more basics, of sporadic behaviors.
 
 

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