HoneyWell S4561(2) no spark

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-01-08, 01:50 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
HoneyWell S4561(2) no spark

Hi,
my Gas boiler is very similar to this:
http://www.profortec.com/schede%20tecniche/CALDAIE%20BASAMENTO%20GAS/NOXIA.pdf


It has an HoneyWell S4561(2) igniction board.

Recently, it does not start anymore, because the gas doesn't receive the spark from that ignition. During start-fase I can hear the "clicking" on the HoneyWell board but no spark is generated on the gas. Only, SOMETIME (2-3% of tries) the boiler starts normally and, in this cases, it will start again if i try not too much time later.



What can I do to try if my board is still good?

Thank you very much.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-01-08, 05:31 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Describe in detail how the spark gets to the sparker in the burner. How it connects up to the board, the type of wire and any fitting, and if you pulled out the sparking electrode out of the boiler yet.

Generically speaking, when this occurs in any sparking ignition system you have to rule out that you indeed do ntot have spark in the combustion chamber at the electrode, that any connection is bad, that the wire has not gone bad, that the wire is not shorting out to ground on metal of the furnace, and that the electrode is clean and whatever required gap inside by the combustion chamber is right, and the location there (how it is mounted) is correct.

In applications where this (what I am about to describe) is possible - it is suggested to use say a screw driver or whatever it takes, to try and create a spark directly off the electrical terminal that is supplying the spark electricity from the board, to metal of the furnace (but leave a small gap it has to jump, to see if then you get spark. If you don't get any that way, you would have a bad board.
 
  #3  
Old 10-08-08, 01:37 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Thank you very much for your reply and the informations.

I would like to exclude that wire is not shorting out to ground on metal of the furnace. If I touch the two electrodes with a tester, it seems that there is a short but I suspect that my tester is not completely affidable! I have try with a best diode-tester.

Meanwhile, to test a board, i'd like to try and create a spark directly off the electrical terminal using, as suggested, a screw. Please, Ecman51, tell me:

how can I realize this? After I disconnect the positive electrode from the board how can i use the screw ?
is it dangerous for me ?

Thank you again.
 
  #4  
Old 10-08-08, 06:52 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
The whole idea, no matter how you do it, is to eliminate the wire to the sparker or any other problem with the sparker, as being broken down and not working. So you try to achieve a spark directly from the terminal on the board to some metal ground. Now I do not know what is in the way of that terminal, and only you can judge what you can use to connect to that terminal, like some metal (screw driver if terminal sticks way out and nothing else in the way, for example) or heavy insulated wire, from that terminal to say 1/8th of an inch from touching the metal of the furnace or some ground wire or screw that is bright metal. That is the whole idea.

Have you ever disconnected a spark plug wire from the spark plug on a car, adnd put a screw driver or something akin to that in the plug wire and then held it near the metal of the engine to watch to see if it sparks? That is what you are trying to do. [Just do not touch any metal yourself. Hang onto insulation, handle, etc.]

What kind of wire is it that goes from the board to the sparker? What kind of connector is on each end?
 
  #5  
Old 10-08-08, 03:01 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Ok. I have the spark !
I use the positive electrode from the sparker and i have always the spark near the fournace metal ground.
I could think that the board is right.
Please now, check this images:
1 http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?i...4383484ah5.jpg

2 http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?i...8473775du1.jpg

3 http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?i...6988197fv1.jpg

4 http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?i...4296522pm6.jpg

What can I check ?
Thank you very much.
 
  #6  
Old 10-08-08, 03:46 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
If you are getting spark off the orange positive spark plug wire to some metal, that means the board is good. And now you have to reassess if you really were not getting spark, when it is hooked back up, and you carefully move your head around to try to see where it should be sparking at. Sometimes seeing that spark can be difficult.

Male it as dark as you can in the basement? by even blocking off basement windows if you have to - as there is no sense trying to figure out how you can troubleshoot no spark across electrodes if you really have it. Let's be absolutely sure before moving on. Your problem may be something besides spark.

Is the spark supposed to ignite a burner directly or does it ignite a pilot?
 
  #7  
Old 10-09-08, 10:01 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Is the spark supposed to ignite a burner directly or does it ignite a pilot?
The spark ignites a burner directly.

I have tried to serch the spark anywhere but:
- I cannot have a complete dark area.
- The spark time, before entering in protection status, is only 5-6 seconds, than I must wait futher 5-6 seconds to unblock it and try again.

This is very annoious but I will search better again in the night.
This morning, I reduced the distance between the electrodes of the sparker forcing (a little) them, and many times the boiler starts quite normally.
I'm sure that the problem is that the sparker does not ignite the gas.
Plese, do you have some other advice ?
Ecman52, thank you very much.
 
  #8  
Old 10-09-08, 03:31 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Originally Posted by _polarix_ View Post
I'm sure that the problem is that the sparker does not ignite the gas.
That is an all encompassing statement.

But we have to break down whether your problem is that it is not making good enough spark at the electrodes due to some misalignment, wear or tarnish of the electrodes?, or even corroded ground in there buy the electrodes - or - if there is blockage or diversion of gas from the head of the burner.

For example, on this Coleman last year with direct spark, I ended up pulling the burner out (it was one of those single burner types) and found that the burner tube had rust holes in it and was screwing things up. Also, the grounding of the burner was poor due to the way it was designed and where the rust was in certain areas, so I had to dismantle something scrape and wire brush the metal and replace the rotten rusty screws. I had the landlord take it home and weld it up, and that fixed it.

It is similarly possible you too may have to go in there and remove the electrodes, polish them up, make sure the gap is about right, and also inspect and clean the burner right out there where the spark is - as sometimes right where the flame begins, there gets to be this sort of whitish froth, possibly rusty debris, that can clog up some hole or slot.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes