amana 90 won't refire and locks out

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Old 10-11-08, 09:26 AM
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amana 90 won't refire and locks out

i have an amana air command 90, model number gcca090ax50, that was just installed. during testing i found that the furnace fires initially and heats for 9-10 min. it then shuts the flame off, the house has not reached set temp, and then tries to restart. it tries once immediately, you can see the ignighter get red, and then recycles with the circulator blower clearing, turning off and then tries to light again. does this three times total and then locks out. if i reset immediately, the furnace will not relight, but if i wait awhile, 30 min or more it will go thru the process above once more. thanks for reading and any help.
i just let the furnace go thru the cycle again and now, either i'm just seeing it, or its new, the led is blinking one time. manual says,interrupted gas supply, lazy burner flame, front cover loose, restriction in flue/vent,or improper induced draft. i know the switch was pressed as i was pressing, check vent and clear, and burners seem to have strong flame until they go out.
why would it run 8-10 min if gas was problem, and what should i do tio check draft blower. thanks again.
 

Last edited by perhaps0369; 10-11-08 at 09:58 AM. Reason: new info.
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Old 10-11-08, 11:42 AM
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This is the first time this unit has been test ran? Like a maiden voyage?

So you are not even sure if ducts are properly sized per furnace btu properly? Run the unit with the blower cover off, but leave the combustion chamber panel sealed! See if it continues to run THEN till set point is reached beyond the 9 minute range. So we can determine something about possibile high limiting.

Make sure that all ducts in main house, even in basement are wide open.
 
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Old 10-11-08, 12:59 PM
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i will do that, but so you know there is no return duct attached yet. this furnace is hanging from rafters, and the return is completely open, with a filter only. bottom opening is 23x20. the filter is a reuseable, with 2 mesh type material on outside and foam center, approx. 1/2 in material. i have run the furnace like this with both doors on(first time) then with top door off (burner door), and then with both off. plenum is fairly large, approx, 24x30( wood furnace is attched also). they do not run together, was done for even heat and cooling of house.
 

Last edited by perhaps0369; 10-11-08 at 01:00 PM. Reason: wrong info
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Old 10-11-08, 02:46 PM
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Well now we know that the cold air return is not restricted. So now you have to find out about if the heating ducts are restricting it.

Also, I am not sure what Amana uses for determining high limit. Maybe the actual temp is not that high, but the setting is a little too low. We have a few of these Amana units in our rentals, but they hold up so well, I have not been in these units for a while. If you stay with us and this problem still vexxes you, I may go to one of the rentals and peek inside and see.

Are these the Amanas that have closed combustion and both panels are screwed shut with those knurled thumb screws?
 
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Old 10-11-08, 03:21 PM
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as for the heating ducts, there is seven heat lines, one of which is brand new. two are not hooked up yet either. i checked the rest when the furnace does blow and there is more air now than before, with the old furnace. the two not hooked up just blow into the basement for now.
and yes, the doors slide into one end and screw into the middle with the thumb screws. i did not have these all the way tight on any of the tests, if that makes a difference. i have not been able to run it with the fan door off yet and the top door on. i will be doing that in the next 2 hours.
 
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Old 10-11-08, 03:32 PM
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I doubt now that removing the blower door will help, if you have a completely ductless cold air return at the present.

You say you have more air from this unit than your old one. Yet, I hope that perhaps your blower motor was not hooked up on say the slowest speed, as that could perhaps cause your problem also. I'm just tossing out some theories.

I have already run into furnaces that look like they have quite a number of ducts, and have high limited until I opened up the main plenum manifold register (when in a basement, and even with all the duct registers and dampers.....................hey.......dampers. Have you made sure they are all wide open?! If you have damper controls the long part, or slot (if it has slot) of the part that skewers the duct has to point in the direction of the duct.

Continuing from when I broke into my paragraph above, .......even with the registers all wide open, I have run into cases where I could only stop the high limiting by opening up that basement register right above the furnace.
 
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Old 10-11-08, 04:30 PM
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i don't believe there are any dampers in the ducts, the plenum does get pretty hot to the touch, but i am using the old furnace as a judge. you can touch it though. would the furnace continue to not work even after being reset, if its high limiting? and it seems like you are shying away from it being a gas problem? at this point there is no registar in the basement, just two of the spots for duct runs are open. would pulling all of the duct runs off and just letting it blow into the basement possibly show this as the problem? thanks
 
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Old 10-11-08, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by perhaps0369 View Post
i don't believe there are any dampers in the ducts, the plenum does get pretty hot to the touch, but i am using the old furnace as a judge. you can touch it though. would the furnace continue to not work even after being reset, if its high limiting? and it seems like you are shying away from it being a gas problem? at this point there is no registar in the basement, just two of the spots for duct runs are open. would pulling all of the duct runs off and just letting it blow into the basement possibly show this as the problem? thanks
Gas problem? Never even thought of that, actually. Like, someone adjusted the pressure setting too high? Hmmm. Who put in this furnace anyway. Fess up. YOU did, didn't you?

Different furnace companies make the furnace do different things when high limiting, and some reset themselves and start over the sequence and others do not. The one that starts over, for one, is the klind that uses a Honeywell fan/limit switch.

Yes, on your last question - IMO.
 
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Old 10-11-08, 05:03 PM
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[QUOTE=ecman51`;1444687]Gas problem? Never even thought of that, actually. Like, someone adjusted the pressure setting too high? Hmmm. Who put in this furnace anyway. Fess up. YOU did, didn't you?
yes, i did, and wishing i wouldn't have, but the price, even with the problems was to good to pass.

The one that starts over, for one, is the klind that uses a Honeywell fan/limit switch.

i will have to check on this later as i am working and can only get home every so often.
as far as gas, i did not adjust pressure, but was thinking that maybe its to high or low. my concren with this though is it runs so long. and once when holding switch that cover normally hold, i let go and furnace shut down. was only running for 3 min., pushed button back down immediately and furnace restarted, including the flame to the gas.

i checked and found no markings to indicate manufacturer. both limiters run to the same placwe on the board, one plug, that plugs into the board, made by whit-rodgers-emerson.
i ran the furnace with all ducts open,except 2 due to them being screwed in place and still the furnace ended at 8 min. i smelled gas when it first went out by manifold, but not after it tried to relight. not sure if that means anything.
 

Last edited by perhaps0369; 10-11-08 at 05:41 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 10-11-08, 06:00 PM
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If you had low gas pressure it would run and run, and not shut off, if low enough, actually.

Your blower door interlock switch test means nothing, as you simply got it to restart before it shut down all the way. And since only 3 minutes passed, it be expected for it to restart. It is only when it runs your 8 or 9 minutes that it is shutting off.

Smelling that waft of gas, is not really any clue of anything, to me, anyway.

I am getting so confused posting so much to so many people, I had to reread your OP, and that eliminated my next thought of a heat exchanger crack opening up and causing rollout flame to occur.

Who installed this furnace? And wasn't it tested after install?

We know nothing as to what all may have been tampered with. And that pressure was never checked out. We do not know either what blower speed wires might be hooked up, and what may be put on "park", if you have a control board with that. Like I said earlier, maybe the blower speed is slow.

Maybe you could go up one speed and see what happens, if you have a multi-speed motor. But we still do not know if the flame is set too high, and that be nice to know.

If you had a pro install it, you'd think you'd be on the phone with HIM, complaining to him. If YOU did it, you may need a pro out there to set the pressure correctly.

Are you on natural gas or LP?

Put a thermometer in any of those open ducts and tell us what it reads after it gets to it's max.
 
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Old 10-11-08, 06:19 PM
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Have you left out that double membrane filter? I just reread a post way back, and I missed that. Have you tried running it with the filter out? May be too restrictive?

Also, your furnace is so incompletely hooked up, for all I know you are sucking hot furnace air coming from an open heat duct right back into the cold air return.
 
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Old 10-16-08, 11:23 AM
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just tested the manifold pressure, book states its to be within .3 of 3.5 wc. while running the pressure was about 3.3 to start and dropped to just above 3. the furnace still stopped at the 8-10 min mark. when trying to restart there was no pressure at the outlet on any attempt. the furnace does make a click when the gas attempts to come on, and the igniter goes out just after this click.
i was told that my thermastat may be the problem, referring to the anticipator. i have a digital thermastat, white rogers, but was adv. that if its older it would need adjusted to fit the furnace. person told me it would be easier to buy a new self adjusting stat. any opinions or ideas.
 
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Old 10-16-08, 07:22 PM
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If you are sure of your model number, I can tell you a bit about this furnace. From the model number you gave, this furnace was manufactured many years ago. Check the serial number the first two digits are the year of manufacture. Second, Im pretty sure a GCCA is a counterflow furnace. The uplflow model is a GUCA. In either case, they have not been manufactured for around 5 years. The current model is AMH and the previous model is AMS. Back to your problem. First, with a totally open return with no duct, your circulator motor is probably running high amps. If you have a clamp ampmeter, check the amps to the motor rating and restrict the return until it is in range. Do not restrict the output air any more than it is. I think the real problem may be combustion air. Add a combustion air pipe (I am assuming you havnt installed one) to the outside and Im pretty sure your problem will be resolved.
By the way, this is a big furnace, 90,000 BTU's with a 5 ton blower. It will move 2000 CFM of air. It takes a pretty big house to warrant a beast like that. Ive installed probably 200 Amana furnaces in the past 5 years and only a handful this size or bigger.
 
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Old 10-21-08, 02:33 PM
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problem appears to be fixed

well i hate to post this, but in the future should anyone experience the same problem, this was my fix. after talking with thermofridge, he said it seemed like the furnace had water in the heat exchanger and to make sure all the drain tubes had no low spots and were able to drain. well when i installed, one of the drain tubes was just slightly elevated and this kept the furnace from draining, and caused it to shut down. once i fixed this, the furnace has run perfect since. thank you to thermofridge and ecman51 for their time and advise. its people like you that bring people to the sites.
 
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Old 10-21-08, 04:48 PM
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Glad to hear you got it and it's always nice to hear back from people how things went.

There are probably only about the same number of things that cause furnaces to malfunction as the number of fingers on your hands. And the condensate draining is one of those things that repeatedly gets forgotten about.
 
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