Good replacement for Honeywell R8184-M-1002?

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  #1  
Old 11-19-08, 05:13 PM
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Good replacement for Honeywell R8184-M-1002?

Hey everyone...

I have the above primary control on the Beckett AFII 85 burner on my furnace. It appears to be bad.... there is 120V supply to it, and it will buzz when the furnace is on, but after a few seconds it pops the red button.

The oil-burner fan/pump motor never runs, and i started there and removed the motor and bench-tested it, as well as cleaning the heck out of the oil pump (it's an A2VA-7116), which really needed it anyhow. My annual service guy cleans the big filter, but i've never seen him touch the pump.

Anyhow, all of this seems to be fine, so i put a meter on the ORANGE wire coming out of the Honeywell control, which i believe should show 120V to start the burner motor and ignition transformer. There is no voltage there.

The relay inside moves, clicks and looks fine. I see no obvious issues (burnt spots etc) anywhere on the board.

It appears this exact part is not used anymore, and indeed i'm not sure i really need a 40VA transformer on this thing (gets warm all the time, uses a lot of power?)

What is the best/correct modern replacement?

Thanks!
~aaron

references:
http://www.beckettcorp.com/protect/t...II%20R0803.pdf

http://www.partsguy.com/cgi-bin/Part...ml?id=Gv9k35KI
 
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  #2  
Old 11-19-08, 06:25 PM
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i've discovered the problem... I took it all apart (nothing to lose) and found a burnt solder connection on the back (underside) of the circuit board.

I got to this point by poking around with a meter.... it gets a good 120v on the black (hot) wire, and 0v on the orange (output to blower) wire. So, going back to where the wire comes out of the circuit board, still zero.

On the hot side of the relay (the contacts of which are clean and make firm contact), it has 120v.

Flip the board over, and the pin from the hot side of the relay is burnt. See the photo.

I am going to resolder this joint, which is easy enough. But i do wonder what caused this to happen... this furnace was installed in 1996, and this part has presumably never been replaced.

What could cause this to happen at this point? Serious over-current?

The high-pressure pump was pretty gunked up (seriously slimy screen, needed a dip in a carb-cleaner bucket even after being disassembled), and caused some noticeable drag on the fan/motor before i cleaned it. After cleaning, on the bench wired direct to 120v, it spins like a top, no vibration or noise.


So maybe the drag caused the 1/7hp blower motor to lock up, which caused a serious current draw (44 amps according to the label on the control) which burnt the solder?

We'll see if it all works when i get it back together in a few minutes...


Thanks again!

[IMG]http://i35.************/23m24ub.jpg[/IMG]

EDIT: apparently there's something against ************ on this board? Anyhow, a nice pic is at
http://i35.************/23m24ub.jpg
 

Last edited by sciroc; 11-19-08 at 06:27 PM. Reason: fix image link
  #3  
Old 11-19-08, 06:42 PM
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8184m

I can't get the photo link to work. Try posting on photobucket.com (free) & a new link.

If you don't have A/C, you probably don't need the 'M'.
An R7184A would work fine as would an R8184G.

A "gunked up" pump will cause an extra load on the motor but not to the point of burning a primary. The motor would go out on it's internal overload first.

It's a shame you cleaned the pump screen. You should have put it in a plastic bag & taken it to the service manager for the company which services your heater. That screen should be checked at each service & replaced if there is ANYTHING on it. The screen & gasket are cheap, usually only $3-$5.
 
  #4  
Old 11-19-08, 07:27 PM
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Nah, the pic isn't important... i have it on tinypic .com, also free and fast etc..

For some reason, this place seems to have a problem with it? Anyhow, take out the space in between the "c" and the ".com" to see the pic (photobucket wants me to sign up, not going to do that...)
i35.tinypic .com/23m24ub.jpg


Anyhow, the furnace is up and running like a top. Indeed, we have been paying $150/unit (there are two identical Lennox Elite) to have the annual service done. Mostly this seems to involve vacuuming the heat exchanger out and replacing the canister filter on the lines (there are return lines too, they are self-priming)

There was a "smoke test" done once that i recall.

Honestly, i would consider bagging the service stuff altogether, since last year the guy couldn't even get the service cap off, and i pulled them already this year and did the cleaning. We're not on a oil-delivery contract, so...

What would be the downside of just doing this myself? Clearly replacing filters, nozzles and the like are within my capability.

Thanks for your help!
;-)
 

Last edited by sciroc; 11-19-08 at 07:36 PM. Reason: why the bias against tinypic?!?
  #5  
Old 11-19-08, 07:42 PM
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On second thought... i agree with you that the motor's thermal or some other fuse/safety device SHOULD kick long before a solder terminal actually melts/burns from the heat.

Unless it was a REALLY bad solder job to start with, and the other connections on the board all look pretty good. It's obvious though that the board was hand-soldered. The pic is a closeup of the burnt spot.

I am a little concerned about it, but since it's in a nice UL listed steel case etc i don't suppose it could hurt. If that joint fails again, i'll get really worried then.

Since there isn't even an updated part, and that board is pretty basic (i could go to Radio Shack and get parts to make another one in less than an hour, by hand), if all it takes is that joint to fix it, i'll save the hundred bucks.

The original cause, though.... hmm.

Anyhow, there is indeed AC too. Thanks again!
 
  #6  
Old 11-19-08, 07:44 PM
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DIY Routine Maint.

If they don't perform a combustion analysis, there is little (if anything) they do you can't do as well yourself.

Here are a couple of little tips regarding those cleanout caps:

1. After you get them off, file the outside of the port where the screw goes thru. There is often a burr there which makes cap removal difficult at times.

2. Before replacing the caps, coat the inside of them & the outside of the port with anti-seeze compound. Makes getting them off next year a piece of cake.

BTW, that furnace, except controls & the AFII burner is exactly the same as an Armstrong, Magic Chef, or Ducane.
 
  #7  
Old 11-19-08, 07:51 PM
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Solder Joint

Dollars to donuts it was bad from the factory. If I've seen one I've seen a hundred but I'm not allowed to fix it. Lawyers cost everybody too much.
 
  #8  
Old 11-19-08, 07:55 PM
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Good call on the anti-seize! I did the lip-filing thing already, and in fact there was a whole saga about the caps...

I punctured/tore up one of them pretty bad prying it off. Then i found out the parts places wanted $65 or something for a $0.50 piece of stamped steel and just on the principle.. no stinkin way.

If it had been $20 or $25, i would have grumbled about that for a little stamped disc of cheap steel, but sixty five bucks? I just hammered the folded bits back and brazed it.

The whole thread, with pics and everything, is here:
Lennox Elite 023Q3-105/120-2A -- heat exchanger rusted? pics inside

Originally i was worried the heat ex was rusted, but that was silly.

One thing i did do, and this may even help some pros in the future, is i made a custom cap-puller.

Since none of the gear pullers or the like would fit it, i took about a 3-foot piece of 1/4" steel rod, and i bent it in half. then i folded about a 1" section of the ends back up inside the fold, right up on itself.... this is hard to describe, i'll try to get a pic later.

What this accomplishes is there are two flat surfaces that stick out from the inside of the V formed by the rod. I brazed the rod to itself to make sure it didn't bend back out, but that might not be necessary.

To use it, you make the open end of the V about the same width as the diameter of the cleanout cap, then slip it over the back so it catches on the cap.

Take a heavy wrench or hammer with a skinny enough handle and hit it in the valley/point of the V. This effectively lets you hammer the cap straight off. Worked like a charm.

The custom tool would be easy to carry around, too. Maybe you pros even have one of these you paid good money for ;-)

ha!

Again, thanks for your help and guidance!
~a
 
  #9  
Old 11-19-08, 08:13 PM
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Cleanout caps

I sometimes just drill a hole in the center & install a bolt with a nut & washer or each side. Just get hold of it with a pair of vise grips & she'll pop right off. I think we get about $12 each for the caps, off the service trucks.

I would like to see some pics of your puller & if you don't mind, I'd like to make one.
 
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