High winds and No Heat with Lennox Gas Boiler GWB8-ie

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-28-09, 07:45 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
High winds and No Heat with Lennox Gas Boiler GWB8-ie

Originally Posted by klausmanj View Post
Oh, yes an induced draft motor certainly CAN run backwards... I have one that does. Here is what happens...
House gets cold.. but furnace (Lennox Boiler) is running, only not lit. If you are familiar with the noise, it doesn't sound right. Reason for not lighting is that the pressure switch is not closed. If you shut off the power to the unit and let the induced draft motor coast down you see that it is turning clockwise, not pushing air up the chimney. Once it stops, I notice that it starts to turn by itself very slowly in the clockwise direction (WRONG!!) due to a slight draft coming down the chimney. If you turn the power back on while it is turning in the wrong rotation, it will run in that direction and the furnace boiler will NOT light. If you power it off and start the induced draft motor counterclockwise with your finger or a pencil tip, then turn on the power, it will run the correct counterclockwise direction, and then the burners WILL light.
This seems to me like a defective motor, with not enough starting "oomph" to overcome a slow rotation in the wrong direction, or maybe a bad / weak start capacitor... I haven't gotten around to testing these yet.
The way I got around this problem was to fabricate a hinged cap for the end of the flue pipe (4") that closes when the burners shut off, and thus stops any draft down the flue pipe. This keeps the blower from turning in the wrong direction. Once the blower starts again, since it was stopped, it has enough power to start up again in in the correct direction, and the cap opens from the air pressure and the burners light. Same principle as an exhaust cap sometimes installed on a tractor to keep rain out of the exhaust... albeit temporary until I get the real issue fixed.. this unit is only 3 years old and this is the first time I know of that I have had this problem.
************************
Hi ,

I also have the same problem with my 3 year old Lennox gas boiler. It is a Lennox GWB8-IE high efficiency gas boiler vented out the chimney via a liner terminating with a rain cap.
My inducer fan blower spins counter clock wise due to an updraft
situation in the basement but when it is very windy the blower fan spins so fast that when it requires heat via the thermostat the pressure switch fails and no ignition/ heat results but the blower continues to run -counter clock wise .
My wife and I then have to turn off the system. Slow down the fan to a stop and then flick the switch to start it up ...and away it goes.
We have done this at least 15 times since Christmas and it occurred last year many times as well.
I have contacted my Installer and they are trying to help, it is on going ...it has been too slow . I feel I may need a high wind cap to prevent the updraft during high wind days.
I feel that if you think back your problem could also be happening during high wind days.
I have also contacted the Lennox rep in the area and I am trying to get him to come out to see the problem.
A real frustrating situation.
Did you find a resolution ? I hope you can contact me with one .
Thanks
bbzzz
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-28-09, 08:01 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
High winds and No Heat with Lennox Gas Boiler GWB8-ie

Hi ,

I have a problem with my 3 year old Lennox gas boiler. It is a Lennox GWB8-IE high efficiency gas boiler vented out the chimney via a liner terminating with a rain cap.
My inducer fan blower spins counter clock wise due to an updraft
in the basement but when it is very windy the blower fan spins so fast that when it requires heat via the thermostat the pressure switch fails and no ignition/ heat results but the blower continues to run -counter clock wise .
My wife and I then have to turn off the system. Slow down the fan to a stop and then flick the switch to start it up ...and away it goes.
We have done this at least 15 times since Christmas and it occurred last year many times as well.
I have contacted my Installer and they are trying to help, it is on going ...it has been too slow . I feel I may need a high wind cap to prevent the updraft during high wind days.
This only happens on very windy days.
I have also contacted the Lennox rep in the area and I am trying to get him to come out to see the problem.
A real frustrating situation. Do I require a special high wind cap to neutralize the winds?
I hope you can contact me with a solution.
Thanks
bbzzz
 
  #3  
Old 02-28-09, 08:49 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Updraft

If you have an updraft the motor should spin in the proper direction.
With the boiler only being 3 years old, I strongly suggest following the Lennox rep's recommendation which I suspect will include a high wind cap & possibly a motorized stack damper.
 
  #4  
Old 02-28-09, 08:50 PM
T
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 458
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
A motorized flue damper with end switch should solve it. You might want to investigate why it drafts so easily. There are many possibilities. Alot of air infiltration to the house, too much make up air and bad or missing backdraft dampers in exhaust fans are a few.
 
  #5  
Old 03-01-09, 01:18 AM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,499
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
In an earlier thread on this board a person with some expert knowledge of electric motors said that a defect in the electric motor would permit an inducer motor to turn the wrong direction. While I couldn't really follow the discussion intelligently, he convinced me.

That would suggest you need a new inducer motor.
 
  #6  
Old 03-01-09, 09:17 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Draft flow affecting Lennox Boiler during High winds

Hi ,
I have contacted Lennox technical help in Texas and they tell me that dampers are not to be installed on this type of system ( GWB8-IE lennox gas boiler ) .
Upon reading the installation instructions for my boiler I also found the Statement short and sweet
" DO not install a damper on this boiler. " page 8 item 13 on the instruction booklet. How many homeowners have read the installation instructions of their heating system??
I feel that this is a design flaw for this boiler - all homes have some form of up or down draft which is increased with high winds which cause the blower fan to spin so fast that disables the ignition of this boiler- NO HEAT!
If you cannot install a damper then a pressure neutral high wind cap should be mandatory for all of these boiler systems or failing that a total recall of all these Boilers with vent induced blowers.
Why do we want to put up wind turbines to generate electricity? It gets windy in most areas of North America? Why is this not built into the design of all Home Heating systems??

As a homeowner I feel I have done far too much research on this problem - more than Lennox has done - I feel. Does Lennox really care - they should.

I thank everyone in advance for their responses .
Ted
 
  #7  
Old 03-01-09, 09:33 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Design Flaw with Lennox Gas Boiler

Hi ,
I have contacted Lennox technical help in Texas and they tell me that dampers are not to be installed on this type of system ( GWB8-IE lennox gas boiler ) .
Upon reading the installation instructions for my boiler I also found the Statement short and sweet
" DO not install a damper on this boiler. " page 8 item 13 on the instruction booklet. How many homeowners have read the installation instructions of their heating system??
I feel that this is a design flaw for this boiler - all homes have some form of up or down draft which is increased with high winds which cause the blower fan to spin so fast that disables the ignition of this boiler- NO HEAT!
If you cannot install a damper then a pressure neutral high wind cap should be mandatory for all of these boiler systems or failing that a total recall of all these Boilers with vent induced blowers.
Why do we want to put up wind turbines to generate electricity? It gets windy in most areas of North America! Why is this not built into the design of all Home Heating systems??
The Lennox Boiler installation instructions do not even mention or recommend a rain or wind cap on the "Chimney and Vent Pipe Connection" pages 8 to 10 - that is a real head scratcher !!

Can anyone recommend a brand name wind cap for this problem or design flaw?

As a homeowner I feel I have done far too much research on this problem - more than Lennox has done - I feel. Does Lennox really care - they should.

I thank everyone in advance for their responses .
Ted
 
  #8  
Old 03-01-09, 11:01 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Dunkirk makes boilers for Lennox

In all fairness I have contacted Dunkirk via email
at their Tech support area and will post once they get back to me .

The Dunkirk XEB series gas boiler is rebranded as a Lennox GWB8-ie gas boiler.

I hope Dunkirk will back up their product!!!

See - XEB Series Boiler For Sale at Dunkirk

Ted
 
  #9  
Old 03-01-09, 01:49 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Lennox

Does their tech service offer any suggestions for curing your problem?
I tried to get an installation manual online but as is typical Lennox (& some others) no luck unless you are a dealer.
 
  #10  
Old 03-01-09, 02:12 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Install Manual

Thanks for the link to the installation manual. I scanned thru it & saw where they said not to install a damper. My question is WHY no damper if properly interlinked with the safety system to prevent ignition if the damper is not open.
I'd bet they tell you to go to sidewall venting.
Is your chimney properly sized for the load going into it? I'd bet not. Most likely it's way oversized which is often typical on a retro fit.
 
  #11  
Old 03-01-09, 02:12 PM
C
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 94
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I can get that for you if you want it....

I logged in on their website but could not find the info for this unit.. on monday I can call tech support and have them give me the link for it.
 

Last edited by cyberdead; 03-01-09 at 02:30 PM.
  #12  
Old 03-01-09, 02:23 PM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,499
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Frankly, I'm somewhat confused about this downdraft problem.

Vent dampers were devised in the era of natural draft furnaces and draft diverters which provided a break between the equipment and the vent or chimney:

Water heater glossary: definition of draft diverter

Usually when a draft hood was used, you had a constant flow of air from inside the dwelling space to the outdoors, and that was the main problem automatic vent dampers were designed to solve --- by plugging off that flow of warm air out of the dwelling space.

No doubt downdrafts might also be reduced by vent dampers, but generally speaking downdrafts aren't a usual and common result of a good chimney system.

With the rise of inducer motors and the elimination of draft hoods, this problem was generally eliminated. Instead of having a free flow of air up or down a vent or chimney, the furnace essentially blocked that flow of air when the inducer motor wasn't working.

So ---- why is the wind whistling through this boiler system? Where is it GOING? Even if there were a pressure difference, there shouldn't be much air flow, because it should be blocked by the boiler itself. So one thing I would inspect for is to find out where that air is going.

Secondly, I would check the adequacy of the vent system itself. If the vent or chimney terminates high enough above the roofline, it should be relatively protected against the strange air flows that occur around a building structure.

And lastly, at least according to the original post about the boiler problem, this is something that apparently developed a year or so after the installation of the new boiler. That implies that this problem didn't develope until a year or more after the boiler was installed. That leaves me wondering if the inducer motor was working properly and overcoming any windmilling effect to turn in the right direction during that first year.

Perhaps (and I'm guessing) the stress of the windmilling problem damaged the critical inducer motor winding, allowing it to turn backwards.
 
  #13  
Old 03-01-09, 02:48 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Up or Down Draft?

In an earlier post it was stated there was an updraft. If so & since the inducer is on the exhaust side, I would think the fan would turn in the direction of it's normal rotation. Conversely if there were a downdraft I can understand why the fan turns backward.
If it turns normally is it pulling enough draft to operate the draft proving switch? Most ignition systems won't allow the boiler to fire if the pressure switch is already closed when a call for heat occurs. The switch must be open, inducer starts, switch closes, ignition sequence is allowed to continue. If the switch is close upon a call for heat nothing will happen except on some controls a light will blink a code.
 
  #14  
Old 03-01-09, 05:21 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Feedback

Thanks for your efforts and responses !!

Some more info to help -

- This problem arises only when there is high winds which increase the speed of the inducer fan so when the boiler calls for heat the fan is spinning too fast ( counter clockwise ) and this prevents the sequencing that allows the ignition to occur and heat the home. The inducer fan is left running and so is the circulation pump but no heat. It then has to be manually restarted as stated earlier.
- On normal days with no high winds the fan spins gently the same direction (CCW) and all is great. We have an natural updraft .
- The chimney has a liner that is 5" diameter terminating to a rain cap on the 3rd floor of a flat roof. The chimney is about 4 ' up from the flat roof.
- One tech guy at Lennox told me it is not their problem that I have a draft problem in my area. Another tech helped out and recommended a high wind cap but I did not get the name of a brand to install.

I have still to hear from the Lennox rep , the installers , Dunkirk as well as others.
I have also contacted CSA - Canadian Safety Standards.

Could a draft diverter prevent this problem? I did see a Dunkirk boiler that has such a diverter.

This is an engineering problem. North America is a high wind area in the winter months- period !!

Ted
 
  #15  
Old 03-01-09, 07:41 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
High Wind

It might be cured by the installation of a pressure switch which is not as sensitive. The downside of this is on calm days your inducer might not be able to generate enough draft. In my opinion, it is certainly worth a try & would be cheaper than having to have someone go atop a 3 story house.
 
  #16  
Old 03-02-09, 06:34 PM
E
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,627
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Intriguing story. I would think that the ventor motor would not even come on, if the pressure switch is closed already, when it tries to start. Either this Lennox is wired different than others, to where the inducer IS allowed to come on, which seems odd, (as what is the sense of allowing that to come on?) - OR - the actual cause is really something else - wind related or otherwise. I'm also curious as to why then it can be reset and made to work, if done during the same high winds, if the wind is really the cause?

I have so many coincidences that happen to me -daily - that I turn into this real skeptic when I hear someone proclaim a probable cause based on some association.
 
  #17  
Old 03-02-09, 07:16 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Venter Motor

Right or wrong, I got the impression he was stopping the motor manually.(?)

Ted, can you clear up this question, please?
 
  #18  
Old 03-03-09, 09:25 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Barometric damper ??

Thanks everyone for all the info. What I find frustrating is repeating the same info over again.

This problem only happens when high winds are present - no heat , no ignition but vent blower is motorized and so is the circulation pump.
The updraft in the home is increased with high winds.
The Dunkirk tech says to try a neutralizing high wind cap or go to a horizontal venting( but winds could also affect it ). He also said dampers are not to be used on the Lennox GWB8-ie .
How about a barometric damper? Could that prevent high updrafts when high winds occur?
Is that considered a damper per se ?
I am really punch drunk with this problem.

Ted
 
  #19  
Old 03-03-09, 09:52 AM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,499
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The best explanation I've seen for your problem is a defective inducer motor, as described by KEV DIY on 1/31/09 on the following thread:

http://forum.doityourself.com/gas-oi...backwards.html

This suggests to me that you see if you can get the inducer motor replaced under warrentee and see if that solves the problem. I'm not an expert on the details of how these motors work, but it sounded as if Kev DIY is.

You describe the wind induced draft as being in the direction of going up the chimney. If that's the case, it should be causing the fan to turn in the correct direction, not the reverse direction, so something there does not make sense to me.

And as I suggested earlier, there usually should not be a source of air for a constant draft of air up the vent. The inducer motor and boiler should provide a barrier to air flow, not a channel for air flow and a source of air to flow.

And frankly, I'm unimpressed by the Lennox rep who said it wasn't their problem. Their equipment is warrentied to work if installed according to their installation manual, which I doubt has high wind caps or exclusions if it get windy outdoors. If it's installed according to the installation manual, you either have a repairable defect in the boiler or a claim to have the boiler replaced under the manufacturer's warrentee, I would suppose.

And it's time for your original contractor and/or Lennox to get a really good repairman out to inspect the boiler and determine where the problem is. You have done all you can in my view, and our guessing and supposing is not a substitute for an expert technician to work thorough the problem methodically until it's resolved.
 
  #20  
Old 03-03-09, 06:25 PM
E
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,627
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tedz532 View Post
This problem only happens when high winds are present - no heat , no ignition but vent blower is motorized and so is the circulation pump.
The updraft in the home is increased with high winds.
Have you tried to disconnect the exhaust pipe from the inducer, during the high winds, to see if the ignition occurs? And also to feel with your hand, over the pipe, to feel if you are getting lots of updraft?

You said in an earlier post you have a 5 inch chimney liner? Are you saying that this Lennox uses a 5 inch exhaust?

Is there an intake tube for this boiler also? Some have that. If you have that, an updraft on that INTAKE tube surely could cause the problem. I could see that more than I can see your problem being adversely affected by additional draft on the exhaust side, since it is the exhausting that creates the vacuum to close the pressure switch to start the ignition process.

And is your boiler open or closed combustion? IF it is closed (that is where you can not reach in and touch the flame without removing a cover plate), I could see the additional drafting upsetting the balance of the air-fuel mixture possibly.
 
  #21  
Old 03-03-09, 06:42 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Barometric Damper

Originally Posted by tedz532 View Post
The Dunkirk tech says to try a neutralizing high wind cap or go to a horizontal venting( but winds could also affect it ). He also said dampers are not to be used on the Lennox GWB8-ie .
How about a barometric damper? Could that prevent high updrafts when high winds occur?
Is that considered a damper per se ?

Ted
NO do not use a barometric damper on this or any positive pressure vent system. To do so can cause exhaust products to be vented into the house.
 
  #22  
Old 03-04-09, 06:18 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks

Hi ,
Thanks for all your efforts !
Again I must say that this is an updraft problem .
I have taken off the vent pipe and put a piece of paper over the vent leading to the chimney and it sucked right into it-up.
This is an older home with some drafty windows and doors.
The vent from the boiler is 3" then expands to 4" vent pipe leading to a 5" chimney liner- basically to the letter.
The chimney is over 30' - a 3 storey home - this can account for the updraft under normal conditions.
Thanks re- the info to not use the draft damper.
I am working on finding a high wind cap to neutralize the "high winds" to prevent high rotation of the vent blower fan in the clockwise direction-the correct direction. If it spins too fast it does not allow the pressure switch to open and no heat.
Reducing the sensitivity of the pressure switch was not option to pursue according to the tech @ Dunkirk .
Dunkirk techs are the guys I call now - forget the Lennox "tech's" ( see my earlier post ).
I will let you know once I find and install a wind cap to see if it makes a difference-HOPE!!

Ted
 
  #23  
Old 03-04-09, 06:27 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
High Wind

The next time you talk to Dunkirk, ask them WHY you should not use a motorized stack damper. My guess is you will get an answer something like "that boiler isn't approved for use with one" in which case I again would ask WHY. "It hasn't been tested that way"... WHY?
Maybe I'm being hardheaded (I get that way at times) but it would seem to me that a motorized stack damper would not only solve your problem but save energy as well.

Please keep us up to speed on your progress.
 
  #24  
Old 03-04-09, 06:57 PM
E
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,627
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I see now. The 5 inch chimney liner is actually creating leverage with the wind. It is increasing the velocity through the 2 inch like a wind tunnel would.

And because the fan keeps spinning in the wind, the NC to C connection on the pressure switch can never close to start up the furnace - until you actually have to slow down that fan (according to one of your posts way back)
 
  #25  
Old 03-05-09, 12:55 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Talking Possible Solution - too easy!!!

Hi ,
Just got off the phone with a Dunkirk technical support guy and I believe he has given me the solution.
I would really like to hear what the forum has to say about it .
Here it is -
He said to drill a hole approximately 2" in diameter in the chimney wall about 12" below where the vent pipe goes into the chimney. This will create an easy passage for the updraft and stop the updraft from going thru the boiler causing the vent blower fan to spin.
This sounds too easy but it also seems to be the practical , logical solution - create an easier path for the up draft.
My concern is that the chimney has a liner that is sealed where it meets the rain top.
Sealed by sheet metal and siliconed to the top of the chimney- would this hole create any other problem??

Thanks in advance for your input!!!
Beer 4U2

Ted
 
  #26  
Old 03-05-09, 05:47 PM
E
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,627
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hopefully someone will respond, who is not afraid of advising on altering an existing system.
 
  #27  
Old 03-05-09, 07:17 PM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,499
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Hopefully someone will respond, who is not afraid of advising on altering an existing system.


Not only altering an existing system, but altering it in a way no doubt contrary to the manufacturer's installation directions. And putting a hole from the chimney into the dwelling space invites infiltration of combustion products and carbon monoxide into the house.

When I found unplugged holes in a chimney when I was a gas utility repairman, I either plugged them up or shut off and red tagged the equipment as being hazardous.

So I don't think much of the advice tendered by the tech rep, who no doubt retains plausable deniability should his advice cause injuries or death.

In addition to everything else, this would create a free flow of heated room air up the chimney, which means cold outdoor air has to infiltrate the house to replace every bit of it.

Sorry, but this sounds like something to be warned against rather than recommended.
 
  #28  
Old 03-05-09, 08:47 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Hole???

In my opinion that 2" hole needs to be in the tech service guy's head. His suggestion is absolutely nuts for the reasons expressed by S/P.
 
  #29  
Old 03-06-09, 02:39 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks again

Hi ,

Well it seems that the solution is not as easy as drilling a hole in the chimney. I thought that was ingenious since it created an easier route for the updraft to flow up.
By the way as it is now I am still losing heat in the basement with a constant updraft . Remember I have a chimney liner leading to a rain cap termination.

How about attaching a "Y" joint to where the vent mets the chimney wall ? One end would vent to the boiler the other end would remain open to suck the updraft and by pass the vent blower ? This would provide a easy path for the updraft and by pass the path via the boiler/vent blower fan .

My Lennox rep and Installer are to come to my home and hopefully come up with a
solution.
Thanks for any further input.

Ted
 
  #30  
Old 03-06-09, 06:22 PM
E
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,627
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tedz532 View Post
The vent from the boiler is 3" then expands to 4" vent pipe leading to a 5" chimney liner- basically to the letter.
The chimney is over 30' - a 3 storey home - this can account for the updraft under normal conditions.
What do you think guys?: Why does he need a 5 inch chimney with only a 3 inch discharge on the boiler?

The 5 inch creates more surface area for the 'chimney effect' - a sort of leverage of the wind velocity. Can't he reduce the size opening, down at the roof, to reduce that extra wind velocity caused by 5 inches reduced to 3 inches?
 
  #31  
Old 03-06-09, 07:16 PM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,499
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tedz532 View Post
Hi ,

My Lennox rep and Installer are to come to my home and hopefully come up with a
solution.
Thanks for any further input.

Ted

I'd see what they have to offer.

I'd also pitch them on the idea that the inducer motor is damaged because it can power up the wrong way, and it needs to be replaced.

But frankly there are a number of things I've mentioned earlier that don't make sense to me. I think you need a Xpert to look things over and identify any problems.
 
  #32  
Old 03-06-09, 07:21 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Vent size

I don't have a copy of the venting tables at home & can't remember what size & height vent is for what btu range.

EDIT: I was just looking at the install manual & it talks about having a water heater going into a common vent with the boiler but states the water heater is not to go into any part of the vent system which is under positive pressure. My questions are: (1) At what point is this vent system NOT under pressure since the fan is on the exhaust side? (2) How is the domestic water heated in this home?
 
  #33  
Old 03-08-09, 04:58 PM
E
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,627
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SeattlePioneer View Post
.....the inducer motor is damaged because it can power up the wrong way, ...
I understood it that both with the high wind and with the running of the furnace, the fan ran CCW. So I presumed then that the high wind is holding open the NC pressure switch connection so that the furnace will not start from a dead stop, since the fan blade is already creating vacuum(from the wind), that should not ordinarily be there when the furnace is supposed to start.
 
  #34  
Old 03-12-09, 12:53 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
How many solutions?

I guess there as many solutions / pressumed or assumed as there is people that post here.

Note- the fan spins clockwise -as it should - with the updraft condition but it spins very fast with high winds preventing start up of boiler -sometimes- depending on the speed.

I am still waiting for the Lennox rep and Installer to make an appointment to inspect my boiler!!

Make take is to bypass the vent that leads to the boiler so the updraft could be absorbed before it has to go thru the boiler/vent blower.
What an engineering mess??

Ted
 
  #35  
Old 03-27-09, 10:59 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The Lennox rep and the installer have come by home to inspect the situation.
They took measurements, observations and photos. They both said that this is a first time problem for them.
I feel reassured that this will be taken care of by the attitude of the Lennox rep.
I will keep in touch as I hear back from them as to the solution.
Ted
 
  #36  
Old 03-27-09, 05:01 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Thanks

Thanks for the update. This is indeed an interesting problem. I'm eager to learn the solution.
 
  #37  
Old 04-27-09, 12:22 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Electronic Damper the solution!!!! ?????

Hi ,
The result of the Lennox rep and the installer's visit to my home to inspect the boiler with the updraft problem is to install a (Field Control ) electronic damper !!

I have been told that this will prevent updraft ( ( which causes the inducer motor to spin too fast and prevent ignition(heat) to occur- no heat ) when there are high winds in winter months.

What do you think about this solution?
I have called Dunkirk ( the makers of the Lennox boiler ) and they agree with this solution. They also say that it will increase the efficiency of the boiler by preventing the updraft problem.

I feel a little uneasy about another electronic device on this boiler .

I greatly appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Note- Lennox will supply the Field Control damper

Thanks in advance ,

Ted
 
  #38  
Old 04-27-09, 06:24 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 14,251
Received 23 Votes on 21 Posts
Damper

Back when this thread started I suggested a damper. Wonder what caused Lennox/Dunkirk to change their minds about a damper? Now, all of a sudden, instead of it being a major no-no, it's not only the "cure", but will encrease efficiency as well.

Engineers
 
  #39  
Old 04-27-09, 08:39 PM
P
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brantford Ontario Canada
Posts: 117
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Grady View Post

Engineers
LOL I thought all these guys were up here
 
  #40  
Old 04-29-09, 12:50 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto canada
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Proceed with the damper or not ?? -please

Thanks for the comments but some helpful opinions about this would be greatly appreciated!!

Would you install the Damper if it was your home?

Tedz
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: