Where to check oil burner overdraft?

Reply

  #41  
Old 11-08-09, 07:25 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
One too many?

Thanks for answering my questions. I want explore all the possibilities while I can. Yes, Denton is in NC; something I found on the "small" furnace inspection cover but not on the "big" horizontal one we've been talking about. You mentioned several posts ago that you thought the furnace was too big for this house and climate. Are two furnaces one too many for a house @3600 sq. ft? Also, is it OK to post here about the "small" furnace, because I've already got more problems and questions?
 
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old 11-09-09, 07:02 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
1 vs 2

Without a lot more details about the house & particularly the heat loss, I can't say for sure if you need that much heat or not. Often with a house that size two furnaces are preferabe to one because it provides some degree of zoning.
Here is a link to a load calculation program which to use will cost you about $50 but worth every penny especially in view of the fact you may have to replace the big furnace.
HVAC Software, HVAC-Calc for Heat Loss, Heat Load Calculations

No problem in continuing with this same thread for the small furnace.
 
  #43  
Old 11-15-09, 08:10 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Good news

Hi Grady:

Thanks for the link. Sorry I haven't posted sooner, but it's been a strange week. I had an opportunity to patch the hole in the exchanger before an unwanted visitor named Ida rolled through. I guess she paid you a visit too? The repair seemed to created a slight increase in stack temp, which I attributed to those hot gasses not escaping into the air stream, but there was no change in draft.

While I had time to think, I decided my next move would be to seal the seams in that long flue run. I pulled out the flue and there was not a lot of soot in it. Here is where I will have to enter my mea culpas. The chimney was almost completely occluded. The seal at the chimney had also failed, but I think I may have caused that last week when moving the flue to clean the exchanger. The chimney itself is also a mess, but that's not my fault and something for another post. After re-installing it and packing the gaps at the chimney with fiberglass I finally got draft - for the first time - at both the stack and the burner. I'm so happy I could ....

The measurements aren't quite right yet, and I still have more questions, but I wanted to let you know the good news. Thanks again.
 
  #44  
Old 11-16-09, 05:50 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Good News

Good news & good detective work. Please don't use that furnace with the patch. It is for testing purposes only. Seal those gaps at the chimney with either furnace cement or mortar mix.

Yes, Ida paid us a visit as well. The beaches & low lying areas got hit pretty hard. Some roads are still flooded & the bad news is we are expecting NE winds over the next couple of days. Couple the wind with the higher than average tides of a new moon & it sounds like they are in for more flooding.

You said you have more questions. Fire at will.
 
  #45  
Old 11-17-09, 08:12 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Fire at will

Sorry to hear about the weather. It's about to turn nasty again here too. On the bright side, if you are up late tonight, you might get to see a nice meteor shower. Here's where we stand at this end, and thanks for the complements:

* Breech draft is just a little above a sustained 0.01" WC.
* I can't get measurable overfire draft, but for the first time smoke pulls inward.
* Stack temp is 525F before adjustment.

I guess my next question is where to look next? These measurements are a vast improvement but, I had to completely close the air intake rings at the burner to get that good draft. When I did I got an occasional outward puff at the port. Is that a clue?
 
  #46  
Old 11-18-09, 04:35 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Air intake rings

Heavens no, don't close those rings completely. To do so will cause the flame to burn dirty & the furnace to soot very rapidly. You gotta do something about that heat exchanger. There could be other areas rusted out you can't see.
Have you talked to Thermo-Pride at all? They won't ship to a homeowner, only a contractor & maybe only to one of their dealers but it's something that has to be done. Either replace the heat exchanger or the furnace.
 
  #47  
Old 11-18-09, 08:30 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Air supply

Not to worry. I know better than that. I was just making an observation about tuning for efficiency. I can get a huge flame and maximum draft by closing the air supply, one so big I can't look into the port in that small space without losing arm hair or eyebrows, so I set the rings somewhere between fully open and fully closed. That's just guessing. I'd still like to try to get the optimal overfire/breech/stack temp measurements while I can. The one thing I haven't done is work on the supply side yet, which is what I usually do. I imagine the nozzle and insulators are pretty sooty by now. I know that the furnace will have to be replaced but I hope you can indulge me in a few more questions.

1) Would reducing the nozzle size from 1.10 gph to 1.00 gph help draft in any way?

2) If I opened the back of the furnace and found another big hole, would you like to see pictures?

Thanks again.
 
  #48  
Old 11-19-09, 04:52 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Firing Rate

Reducing the firing rate should help your draft somewhat, probably not much.

Yes, I would like to see pics of the rest of the heat exchanger. I likes pics.
 
  #49  
Old 11-25-09, 07:55 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
You likes pics? I gots pics.

Well, I was sort of joking about searching for more holes, but then I thought why not? Now I think the joke is on me. Here is a pic of the back of the furnace.



That panel is held on by six screws. Guess where two of them are?





That's right. The one place where it's nearly impossible to get at 'em. I think you've helped me inspect this furnace more thoroughly than any tech has since the day it was installed.

While I'm at it, let show you my nice, shiny metal repair.



This will have to suffice since a new furnace this winter is out of the question. And while I'm at it, here's a shot of the path to the chimney. Over or under? After the first two pipes it's knees and elbows all the way. The chimney is behind the cinder block.



I haven't even cranked up the "little" furnace yet. Will keep you posted . Thanks again.
 
  #50  
Old 11-26-09, 07:17 AM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Over or under?

The biggest thing about venting is trying to keep the slope as uniform as possible & NEVER any dips which create a "trap".

Of what is the patch made? If you must use this furnace, get a piece of ceramic fiber (Kaowool), cut a few inches larger than the hole, cover with a piece of sheet metal (24 gauge minimum) cut an inch or so smaller than the Kaowool sheet, & attach with self drilling sheet metal screws spaced about 3/4 to 1" apart. Check the patch frequently.
 
  #51  
Old 12-03-09, 08:33 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Asbestos?

Hi Grady:

I made the patch with a piece of stainless steel and a product called Qualco Muffler Weld. Good stuff. I doubt I could get it off with a hammer and chisel, but I will keep an eye on it.

I looked up Kaowool and it doesn't look like the crumbling seals behind the secondary air/inspection and clean-out ports I've been repeatedly opening. Please tell me those seals weren't made of asbestos.
 
  #52  
Old 12-04-09, 04:40 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Gasket Material

With the age of the furnace it is possible those gaskets contained asbestos. Notice that I said POSSIBLE, but not probable. If you want to replace the gaskets, you can use Kaowool blanket or rope. The rope can be a little tricky because you have to use a hefty coat of never seez or similar to hold the rope in place while you tighten the bolt. Thermo-Pride might sell you the gaskets but I think they have a $50 or $100 minimum. At that rate you could change gaskets weekly & still have gaskets left over.
 
  #53  
Old 12-12-09, 03:46 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Have you seen one of these before?

Hi Grady:

Sorry I haven't posted in a while. You said I could ask questions about the "little" furnace on this thread, and boy do I have questions. I've been having trouble getting the furnace to run for more that a minute or two. Last night I got ahead of myself in the process of elimination dept. when I thought I saw a dirty strainer in the pump. I pulled the cover and there wasn't any strainer, but I did find this.





It's a piece of flexible plastic about 2 1/2" long and about an inch wide. I think it used to be filled with air or liquid but has now collapsed and become somewhat rigid. It came out of a single stage, 1725 RPM pump made by Webster Electric/A Sta-Rite industry out of Racine, Wisconsin. I found a good pdf file on their website that mentions a noise suppressor being in the cover, but not a picture of something like this. Have you ever seen one of these before? And where did the strainer go? Thanks.
 
  #54  
Old 12-12-09, 05:30 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Webster Pump

Websters don't have strainers. They have blades which are supposed to chop up particles so they will pass thru the nozzle, yeah right . I'd suggest replacing the pump with a Suntec A1YA-7912 (presuming right hand rotation as viewed from the shaft end).
Patriot Supply - A1YA-7912

Webster makes some very good commercial pumps but their residential stuff leaves something to be desired. I suspect that piece of plastic used to be a 'pillow' used to quiet the pump. Websters can be noisy.

In case I don't hear from you before, have a Merry Christmas.
 
  #55  
Old 12-12-09, 10:06 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
An Update

Thanks Grady:

Let me start from the beginning so you'll know what I have been doing and why it has taken me so long. Before I even started the furnace I drilled a hole in the flue between the breech and damper. I guess nobody has ever tuned-up this furnace either. I tried to open the one clean-out port that I could get to on the heat exchanger, but when the bolt and nut started turning together I knew I'd be screwed if I snapped it off, so - after many attempts using many methods - I left well enough alone. When I opened the secondary air/inspection port I found a dead bird. Since this is a hi-boy and the flue only runs about two feet horizontally before going straight up, I removed the damper and pulled out maybe a cup of soot. I didn't see any visible signs of "crud" coming up to the flue like I did on the other furnace, so I'm slightly optimistic (famous last words). When I started the furnace this is what happened: delayed ignition, followed by an alarming "poof" of smoke, poor flame, and one to two minutes of run time before the controller clicked the reset button to off. There was also a small fire in the chamber that lasted for several minutes. When I was able to put an inspection mirror in I found several very tiny bones. Another poor bird decision. Since then I have done what I normally do before starting the furnace: check/replace fuel filter, nozzle, insulators, adjust electrode gap ... etc. The results remain more or less the same. I did manage to get a little above 0.15" of draft out of the flue.

I thought I might have either a problem with the pump or a motor that isn't coming up to speed. I measured @ 12-14" of suction with the motor running and a sustained 4" after shut down. Flow appeared good. That's when I jumped the gun and took the cover off before I measured pressure. I put the cover back on - minus pillow- and I'm waiting for the rtv to cure before I do any more tests. That's where things stand for now. Thanks again ...
 
  #56  
Old 12-13-09, 05:25 AM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
High Vacuum

Initially it sounds like you are running way too much vacuum. Chances are the lines are full of crud. Where is the tank in relation to the heater? One pipe or two? What size line(s)?

If you can disconnect the tank end of the suction line, you can use compresssed air to blow out the line. Just be carefull & start slowly in case there is a check valve lest you get a face full of nasty fuel when you disconnect the air line. I use one of these with adaptors to fit the fuel lines:
Patriot Supply - P132M

BTW, I have no affiliation with Patriot Supply whatsoever. I simply reference them because they carry a lot of things for the trade, sell to the public, have good prices, & fast service.
 
  #57  
Old 12-13-09, 02:25 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Vacuum

I just tested the pump again with a different vacuum gauge and got almost identical results. This is a two pipe system. The intake and return lines are 3/8" OD. The tank is underground and the heater is located almost directly above it. I'm guesstimating it has about 7-8 feet of vertical lift. Right now the filter is removed so that's not the problem. I'm going to go out right now, disconnect both lines and carefully blow compressed air through them.

BTW, thanks for the Patriot Supply links. That does seem like a good price on the pump.
 
  #58  
Old 12-13-09, 07:24 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Update

Hi Grady:

I methodically worked backwards from the pump, reconnecting everything and taking measurements, and found there must have been some crud between the tank and inlet line of the filter. After blowing it out, suction is now between 10-11" running and holds steady @ 5" after shutdown. Unfortunately, the burner still shuts down after two minutes.
 
  #59  
Old 12-14-09, 02:49 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Shuts Down

You will need an ohm meter & a set of jumper wires. Remove the wires from the F-F terminals on the primary control, start the furnace & quickly connect the jumpers between F-F. Connect the ohm meter to the wires removed from the control. You should read <1000 ohms. If you do, the cad cell is "seeing" the flame well. Have you changed the nozzle?
 
  #60  
Old 12-14-09, 08:04 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Pressure problem?

Hi Grady:

Before you posted I did a pressure test and got a low reading, only 80 psi. I did test the cad cell. When I shone (shined?) a light directly into it I got a measurement of 30Ω. When I started the burner and jumpered the F terminals I got wild measurements between 4-6KΩ. I think the photocell is working correctly and telling the controller the flame isn't right. I'm not sure if I measured the pressure correctly. Since this is a two pipe system, I put the gauge directly inline at the pump to nozzle junction. In other words, I blocked all flow to the nozzle and let the return line do the work. Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember this might give an incorrect reading. Did I do this right?
 
  #61  
Old 12-14-09, 08:24 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Pump Pressure

You did fine. Deadheading into the nozzle line port can give you a slightly high reading but only slightly on residential burners. You need to get that pressure up to 100#.
 
  #62  
Old 12-14-09, 08:38 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Pressure adjustment

Thanks Grady:

Before I adjust the pressure is there anything I need to do? This pump uses a hex key for adjustment. Do I need to loosen anything before I turn the hex key? Should I leave the pressure gauge deadheaded? Maybe a shot of WD-40? Thanks again.
 
  #63  
Old 12-15-09, 03:28 AM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Hex Key

It has been soooo long since I've worked on a Webster, I honestly don't remember but I think than hex screw is atop the actual pressure adjustment screw. Try first turning it in. If it won't move try backing it out just in case my memory is correct. Make adjustments with the gauge deadheaded & the burner running. Websters often make the gauge flutter. Make your best guess as to the middle of the flutter for your reading.
 
  #64  
Old 12-15-09, 04:56 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
A lousy nozzle?

Hi Grady:

Before I made adjustments to the pump pressure I tested it with a better graduated gauge and it turns out the pump was set at 100#. Hmm. The transformer is only four years old, but I checked it while I was there and it was strong. I pulled out the nozzle assembly, even though I'd changed the nozzle, and tested the spray. I applied a full 120 lbs. of pressure and got a beautiful hollow cone mist. The I noticed something. If I slowly applied pressure, like a pump building up pressure on start, what I got was a stream and bad spray before a full mist. Aha! I didn't have a new nozzle to put in, but I did have one the I had carefully disassembled and cleaned. I put that in and got faster ignition. The burner ran long enough for the fan to come on, but clicked off after 8-9 minutes. While it was running I checked the photocell again and got those wild 4-6KΩ measurements. Is this all pointing to a bad nozzle(s)?
 
  #65  
Old 12-15-09, 05:32 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Ohm readings

Something's fishy about those ohm readings. No control I'm familiar with is going to allow a burner to keep going for 8 -9 minutes with readings like that. I would expect lockout in a minute or less. Just what primary is on the burner?
 
  #66  
Old 12-15-09, 06:20 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Primary?

I'm sorry, you lost me on that one. Did I mention this used to be the "good" furnace, the one that never misbehaved?
 
  #67  
Old 12-16-09, 03:22 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
4-6 K Ohms

This reading was taken with the cad cell wires disconnected from the control? If not, it needs to be. What is the make & model of the control with the reset button.
 
  #68  
Old 12-16-09, 08:43 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Primary

Sorry about that last post. I keep referring to the primary as "the controller". It is a Honeywell/Tradeline R8184G 1138. Today I replaced the nozzle, again, with another used one I carefully disassembled and cleaned. I got instant ignition and what appeared to be a good flame. It ran for 20 minutes before the primary locked out. During that time I measured between 2-3KΩ on the cadcell. I take these measurements with the cad cell disconnected and the F terminals jumpered to keep the burner running. I think I need to buy some new nozzles.
 
  #69  
Old 12-16-09, 09:22 PM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,503
One of the weaknesses of DIY work is that people usually don't have much in the way of parts on hand, so they re use parts a pro would replace as a matter of routine.

I'm no oil man and have no expertise in that area. But I seem to recall that replacing the burner nozzle with a new one is routine annual maintenance.

I avoid replacing expensive parts unless I can verify they are no good. But replacing minor parts that can wear out, be hard to clean or are simply weak points makes a lot of sense. Pilot orifices on gas equipment is often an example.

So if you are off to buy nozzles --- you might want to buy two or three to have on hand for the future. Perhaps stocking up on an extra oil filter or whatever might be worthwhile as well.

Having the right part on hand when you need it keeps a routine maintenance from becoming a pain in the neck, or inviting re use of parts that might better be replaced.

I don't know --- perhaps some of our oil Xperts have a list of parts that DIYers might consider having on hand for burner tune ups and such.

One suggestion --- buy a plastic bottle of oil for motors and such, and leave it off to the side of the burner or fan motor. Having an oiler handy invites oiling as needed. If it's not available, it tends to get neglected.

Make it easy on yourself!
 
  #70  
Old 12-17-09, 03:30 AM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Excellent Advice

As usual S/P has presented some very good sugestions. Thanks S/P.

To his advice I'd like to add: A good cleaning of the interior of the nozzle assembly with carb cleaner often is invaluable. Follow the carb cleaner with fuel by connecting the nozzle line to the nozzle assembly (less nozzle) & putting the furnace thru a safety cycle while directing the flow into a waste container.
 
  #71  
Old 12-18-09, 01:44 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Thanks

Thanks for the advice. The parts I need won't be available until next week. Will keep you posted.
 
  #72  
Old 12-24-09, 06:51 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Thank you

Hi Grady:

Still waiting on parts. I just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the help and advice you've given me this year. I hope you have a Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year. Beer 4U2
 
  #73  
Old 12-24-09, 08:03 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Parts

Thank you for the Chistmas & New Year wishes. I hope you & yours have a wonderful Christmas & a happy, healthy New Year.
 

Last edited by Grady; 12-25-09 at 01:20 PM.
  #74  
Old 01-05-10, 08:42 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
Back in the saddle again

Hi Grady:

Happy New Year. I hope you and all had a nice holiday season. I finally got new parts and the furnace is running. And the culprit was . . . the air bands.

If you'll recall, I had a problem keeping the burner running. I had to resort to using cleaned used nozzles, and actually got longer burn times, but the cad cell measurements were always too high and the primary would eventually lock-out. I hoped the new nozzle would solve the problem, but it didn't.

During that long down time I found a helpful Wayne site. It said as long as the cad cell measured 1600Ω or less the burner should stay on. With the new nozzle I got 2KΩ and it got higher the longer the burner ran. I had already gone through everything on their check list, but I kept coming back to the air bands. They had very little adjustment and the tabs with the bolt would bump up against the burner box if I tried to close them more. I took the outer band off to get a better adjustment and the inner band promptly jumped out of place. But, with a little bit of trial and error, I think I have them on correctly. Now I get measurements between 1000 -1500Ω on the cad cell and the burner stays on. Good thing too, since the temps are now dropping into the teens overnight. I still can't get a measurable overfire draft, stack temp is high, and breech draft is just under 0.02". Sound familiar? I'm not going to worry about that too much now since I'm just happy to feel heat.

One last note. Remember that picture I sent you several posts back of the "pillow" I took out of the Webster pump? I put in a new coupler and the pump started clicking like crazy. You were right, Websters can be noisy. After several attempts at adjustment, I put the old coupler back in.

Sorry it took so long to post. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
 
  #75  
Old 01-05-10, 08:47 PM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,503
So what's an air band?



Seattle Pioneer

Not an oil guy
 
  #76  
Old 01-05-10, 09:25 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
What's an Air band?

Ha Ha. It's a bunch of guys posing in front of mirrors. No wait, I'm sorry, that's Rock Band. Just kidding. The air bands, unless I'm using the wrong term, control the amount of air entering the combustion chamber. Here is a link to waynecombustion.com. Let me know if it makes it. And seriously, thanks for your interest.
 
  #77  
Old 01-06-10, 12:42 AM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,503
Everybody's a comedian!

I did Google the term air bands and got references to air guitar players.


If it were a gas burner, we'd presumably call that a primary air shutter.
 
  #78  
Old 01-06-10, 06:18 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Talking Air Bands

The terminology varies between manufacturers. In a Wayne they are refered to as air bands since both wrap the circumference of the burner inlet. Beckett has a "shutter" which adjusts the intake air on the end of the burner housing and a "band" around the circumference. They would be parts 3 & 2 respectively on page 22 here: http://www.beckettcorp.com/Protect2/...s/6104BAFG.pdf

Riello has an "air shutter" & somebody else calls it a "gate". The one thing they all have in common is to adjust the amount of primary air.
 
  #79  
Old 01-06-10, 08:15 PM
TtTankEngine's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 76
My favorite bands

I have always been a big fan of ... oh, wait ... we're not talking about [I]them[I]

Grady, thanks for the clarification. SeattlePioneer, I obviously need to learn how to send links, but page 22 of the link Grady sent is more or less a diagram of what I would have sent you if I knew how.

The weatherman actually mentioned the "S" word on the news tonight. I'm hoping the local populace will panic in a calm and orderly manner. Pray for us.
 
  #80  
Old 01-06-10, 08:29 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
"S" word

Yeah, tell me about the S word. We got 20 inches of the white S*** back on Dec. 19. That's more at one time than we normally get in 2-3 winters. A couple of days after Christmas the temps got into the middle 60's. Snow all gone 'cept for the mounds from plowing. Seems like there are two kinds of drivers, for the most part, around here. They ones who are terrified of it but just gotta go & those who have absolutely no respect for it. The first group is more likely to end up in a ditch than the second.

New Year's Eve morning we had rain, sleet, & a flash freeze. Talk about an interesting drive to work...
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes