Bypassing Oil Valve on Beckett AFG


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Old 06-24-09, 07:01 PM
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Question Bypassing Oil Valve on Beckett AFG

I had to call the service tech (from the oil delivery co) to clean furnace after noticing black smoke from the furnace chimney. The tech cleaned the heat exchanger and pipes (found a lot soot, previous cleaning was done 6 month ago by independent tech). He also changed filter (looked clogged and black) and blew air thru the lines (noticed black color oil), changed strain and nozzle. He also primed lines, didn't like the oil out of the pump (bubbles). So decided to bypass the oil valve and connect pump direct to the burner. He turned on the furnace and came on immediately without a delay. The next day Burner tripped. I had to reset and I'm resetting again. This was something new. I did call back the service and it was suggested that the tank need to be replaced (may have sludge). Does the oil valve has anything to do with the re setting issues or still are clogged lines or sludge causing the issue? How can I solve the problem without replacing tank if that is the case? Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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Old 07-01-09, 04:24 PM
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Beckett Oil Valve

If the pump is a "Clean Cut", NEVER bypass the oil valve. To do so will cause the heater to soot rapidly.

I presume the oil is being fed off the bottom of the tank. If so you an add additional filters or convert to a single line off the top & add a Tiger Loop. You certainly don't want a two pipe system.
 
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Old 08-02-09, 05:27 PM
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Question

Originally Posted by Grady View Post
If the pump is a "Clean Cut", NEVER bypass the oil valve. To do so will cause the heater to soot rapidly.

I presume the oil is being fed off the bottom of the tank. If so you an add additional filters or convert to a single line off the top & add a Tiger Loop. You certainly don't want a two pipe system.
Thanks Grady for the advice. Tech came back, did combustion analysis, checked pump and replaced oil nozzle, still the same, furnace works for a couple of days and relay trips. I did use compressed air to clean the oil lines and re-change the filter. Tripped again. I usually have bled oil from the bleeder valve and have started the boiler again. Oil and filter looks clean. I did buy new oil lines and ordered new pump, not sure though about the Nozzle # for Weil Mclain Boiler Model # A/B -468V, BTU/Hr 151000, with Beckett AFG MP1192 0.5-3.0gph. If anyone knows the # please let me know so I can order that.
I still believe that must be air in the system that causes the intermittent operation of the burner not the sludge from the oil tank (last time changed filter and cleaned strain which were both clean).
 
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Old 08-03-09, 06:15 PM
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Nozzle

The correct nozzle for that boiler is a Delavan 1.25 x 80 A & the pump should be set at 100#.

The 468 is a relatively old boiler & unless the motor has been changed to a split capacitor type it is a split phase & has a start switch inside. If you press the reset & the burner fires, air is not your problem. Also if it starts with a normal looking flame, not unusually large, orange or dull yellow, I would suspect the motor to be the source of the trouble.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
The correct nozzle for that boiler is a Delavan 1.25 x 80 A & the pump should be set at 100#. The 468 is a relatively old boiler & unless the motor has been changed to a split capacitor type it is a split phase & has a start switch inside. If you press the reset & the burner fires, air is not your problem. Also if it starts with a normal looking flame, not unusually large, orange or dull yellow, I would suspect the motor to be the source of the trouble.
Yes Grady, the motor is split phase not split capacitor, "marathon electric" model 1PN48S34S361D P, FR-48M-2, 60 HZ. 1/7HP with 3450rpm and 115Volts. Can you please tell me the equivalent of this motor to order? The pump also is not a "clean cut" but with an external oil valve which connects to the burner housing. I did re installed the valve (first tech had bypassed the valve). The phenomenon I see (with or whithout the oil valve bypassed) is that after bleeding some oil (which looks clean) from the bleeding valve, the burner starts immediately (no delay between the blower and the fire starting inside furnace) after a period of 12 to 24 hr, I can hear a delay between the blower and the fire which increases as time goes by and trips the relay. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 04:01 PM
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Motor

Since you can hear the burner motor start & run but the burner fails to fire or is delayed in doing so, your problem is not the motor.

What's the chance of getting some pictures of the the burner & fuel system?
 
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Old 08-05-09, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Since you can hear the burner motor start & run but the burner fails to fire or is delayed in doing so, your problem is not the motor.

What's the chance of getting some pictures of the the burner & fuel system?
Here are the pics of the burner and oil lines;







Please let me know your thoughts.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 07:13 PM
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Pics

The pictures didn't make it. You can post the shots on photobucket.com or similar site & link to them from here.
 
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Old 08-06-09, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
The pictures didn't make it. You can post the shots on photobucket.com or similar site & link to them from here.
Hopefully I did it right this time.



 
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Old 08-06-09, 06:19 PM
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Delayed ignition

Presuming the oil line never goes above the level of the oil in the tank, my first suggestion would be to replace the copper line from the tank to the burner. As crazy as it sounds, I've seen corrosion cause the burner to pull air yet the line would not leak oil. When replacing the line also replace any fittings & make sure the flares are perfect.
If that fails to cure the problem, the next step would be replacing the Firomatic valve at the pump followed by the pump itself. These suggestions are in order of probability & cost.
Keep me up to speed on your progress.
 
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Old 08-06-09, 08:17 PM
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Can't tell from the pictures, but is the fitting on the Firomatic valve a flare or compression? Compression fittings are bad for air leaks.
 
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Old 08-11-09, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pfd27 View Post
Can't tell from the pictures, but is the fitting on the Firomatic valve a flare or compression? Compression fittings are bad for air leaks.
Good observation, it was a compression Firomatic valve and I replaced with flare one.
 
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Old 08-11-09, 07:05 PM
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Compression Fitting

Compression fittings are certainly a source of air &/or oil leaks. A flare is a far better seal but making good flares takes practice. Just be sure the edge isn't rolled, cracked, or jagged. Also clean out the end of the tubing & the flaring tool to insure there are no copper particles to damage the surface of the flare. With luck you may have found the source of your air leak. Good catch pfd27.
 
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Old 08-11-09, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Presuming the oil line never goes above the level of the oil in the tank, my first suggestion would be to replace the copper line from the tank to the burner. As crazy as it sounds, I've seen corrosion cause the burner to pull air yet the line would not leak oil. When replacing the line also replace any fittings & make sure the flares are perfect.
If that fails to cure the problem, the next step would be replacing the Firomatic valve at the pump followed by the pump itself. These suggestions are in order of probability & cost.
Keep me up to speed on your progress.
Grady, I did replace the oil line including fittings from the filter to the pump, replaced the firomatic valve (with a flare one, old one was compression) I also had bought a new pump so I replaced pump (used Patriot Supplies, good price and delivery) including the In and Out oil lines of the oil valve. Also changed the filter(old one was clean) and the nozzle. The last (second)technician that did the combustion analysis had placed a 1gph x 80B. As you told me in a previous thread I did buy and installed 1.25gph x 80A(also bought 1x80A). Using the 1.25gph x 80A the fire inside the chamber was swollen and had smoke. So I did replace nozzle with the 1gphx80A. The fire became smaller and less smoke, adjusted the air baffle to around 8.5 (first tech had left it at 8.5 after cleaned furnace from soot a month ago, he also had used 1x80a). Fire looks contained with no smoke (probably have excess air). Furnace has been working since Sutarday without tripping. The oil valve is installed following the arrow direction and looks like it is functioning; the burner starts, there is 5-6 seconds delay than fire starts and this procedure is repeated. Im thinking that the oil valve must have given me the tripping issues, since first tech removed it, burner started tripping, the second tech didn't install it but he mentioned that the burner didn't come with the oil valve some one else has put it into the burner.Tripping continue after he left, I decided to re install valve but didn't see the arrow on the valve and had installed it on reverse(now is corrected). I have noticed some small droplets of soot laying over the furnace, dont know if coming from the flue. Is there a possibility that the air flowing through the chimney is detaching some of the soot from the chimney walls?
Should I call for chimeny cleaning and than a combustion analysis now that burner is working not tripping or is anything i can adjust myself and observe that will tell me that furnace is working properly, (for sure i will not involve again the first guys). Im also thinking to clean up my oil tank from any sludge that may be in the bottom, Im close to 1/4 of tank, anything good against the sludge that i can buy and use? Thank you for your thoughts.
 
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Old 08-12-09, 04:06 PM
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Combustion analysis

Did the tech leave a copy of the analysis? If so please reply with the data.

Normally an F-6 head, as originally installed on your burner, would not handle a 1.00 gph nozzle very well, at least not without the installation of a static disc. The F6 is usually used above the 1.00 gph level since .85 gph is the low end of it's range.

If you are seeing soot, I suggest getting the boiler cleaned & tuned up. The cleaning should also include cleaning the vent pipe, a visual inspection of the chimney, & a combustion analysis (preferably electronic). The tech should leave a copy of the data with you. If he does not, TELL him you want a copy.

Regarding your tank, the best option would be to install a single line off the top, staying about 4-6" from the bottom, and a Tiger Loop. Latest News -Tigerloop
 
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Old 08-13-09, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Did the tech leave a copy of the analysis? If so please reply with the data.

Normally an F-6 head, as originally installed on your burner, would not handle a 1.00 gph nozzle very well, at least not without the installation of a static disc. The F6 is usually used above the 1.00 gph level since .85 gph is the low end of it's range.

If you are seeing soot, I suggest getting the boiler cleaned & tuned up. The cleaning should also include cleaning the vent pipe, a visual inspection of the chimney, & a combustion analysis (preferably electronic). The tech should leave a copy of the data with you. If he does not, TELL him you want a copy.

Regarding your tank, the best option would be to install a single line off the top, staying about 4-6" from the bottom, and a Tiger Loop. Latest News -Tigerloop
Grady, thanks for your assistance, it has been an experience... but I know now a lot more than a month ago. My next step is to find a good pro that will perform the job right and not find "extra" parts and remove them. I will let you know how i make out.
 
 

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