Carrier Gas Furnace

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  #1  
Old 10-01-09, 07:30 AM
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Carrier Gas Furnace

My Carrier is 58SX080-BC-1
The Blower Fan Runs All the time,with thermostat set to heat or cool or Off while the fan setting is set to auto.
Any Ideals what to check?
The Furnane works for both heating and cooling so the only problem is the blower running all the time.
 

Last edited by dstar; 10-01-09 at 09:26 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-01-09, 10:24 AM
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Probably a fused relay on the circuit board. The board will need to be replaced.
 
  #3  
Old 10-01-09, 01:06 PM
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Take the blower door cover off, and look at the board.

Look for the G hook up from the t-stat.. Should be only one wire on G. If you see another wire on G, follow that wire and let us know where that is going to.
 
  #4  
Old 10-01-09, 02:10 PM
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Carrier Gas Furnace

The G Terminal has only one wire which goes to the thernostat.
Removing the wire does not fix problem.
 
  #5  
Old 10-01-09, 02:57 PM
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If the wire has been removed, and the fan stays on, then sounds like a relay on the board is stuck.

If I recalled, that model has two sets of G... Gh and Gc. Do you have those two?
 
  #6  
Old 10-01-09, 03:38 PM
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Carrier Gas Furnace

I have only the G Ternimal.
When I remove blower cover, Breaking the interlock, and then replace cover the fan stays off until the first heat cycle completes then the fan continues to run.
Looks like there is a adjustable timer on the blower control bd. to turn off the blower after thermostat setting is reached.
 
  #7  
Old 10-01-09, 05:11 PM
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Go ahead and change the time on the "fan off delay" and see if that does anything.
 
  #8  
Old 10-01-09, 06:05 PM
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Carrier Gas Furnace

I have tried several different setting on this adjustable timer, none worked.
 
  #9  
Old 10-02-09, 07:58 PM
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  #10  
Old 10-03-09, 08:23 AM
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Carrier Gas Furance 58SX

Thanks For the Schematic.
If I have a Tripping Limit, Would Furnace continue to operate normal except for Blower running continuous?
How would I locate this device?
 
  #11  
Old 10-03-09, 10:38 AM
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If the burner is cycling on and off while the t-stat is calling for heat, then you are tripping on limit.

But if the burner stays on the whole time when the t-stat calls for heat, then you are not tripping on limit.
 
  #12  
Old 10-03-09, 01:27 PM
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Carrier Gas Furnace 58SX

The burner stays on continuous when the t-stat is calling for heat.
Any other ideas?

Thanks
 
  #13  
Old 10-03-09, 04:55 PM
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Ok, then I'm back to the board if the fan stays on, and it resets as soon as you turn off the power.
 
  #14  
Old 10-04-09, 09:18 AM
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Carrier Gas Furnace

Thanks, I will order a replacement Blower Control Board @ $126.50 from My Local dealer.
 
  #15  
Old 10-11-09, 05:19 PM
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Same furnace, different problem

Hi, may I enter in this conversation?

I have the same Carrier furnace. It works fine, intermittently.

My T stat gives the call for heat and I hear the normal sound of the fan outside at the air intake (?). Usually the thing should lite and the blower should then come on a couple of minutes later. But sometimes, I hear the fan and that's all, nothing else happens.

I took off the top door and canít seem to gain access to the burners or the flame sensor. I think they are in the box at the top with a little viewing hole. I removed the three screws on the box for access and canít get the ďdoorĒ off. Is that where I should be looking?

I see a lot on the internet about furnaces coming on and turning off, but I donít thing thatís my problem.

Any insight would be fantastic.

Thank you!
 
  #16  
Old 10-11-09, 05:33 PM
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It can be a number of things.

Does the inducer fan keeps running non-stop, or does it stop?

if it stops, don't reset the power. Look down in the window on the blower door to see the fault code.. Make notes of what it flashes.

On the blower door there may be a list of fault code.
 
  #17  
Old 10-11-09, 06:24 PM
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No fault codes

Wow, fast response, thanks.

I've closed everything up for tonight already.

I don't know if the inducer motor keeps running because I haven't actually watched it when it was malfunctioning. Today it started up fine when I had the top cover off. It only happens intermittently.

I wanted to try cleaning/sanding the thermocouple but couldn't seem to get at it. Shouldn't it be behind the cover that says "...compartment must be closed..."? There are three screws on the bottom of the leading edge of it and it looks like it should just come off, but no go.

Also, I can see no place for fault codes to display. I think this might be an older unit than you have in mind? Please see these pictures, maybe they will help me communicate.

SendPix

You know how it goes, the thing works fine...until your wife is cold.

Thanks again!
 
  #18  
Old 10-11-09, 06:41 PM
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Oh yeah, that's an older model, early 90's or older.

Have you ever had service on this? If not, I may suggest you to get a good carrier dealer on this. The secondary heat exchanger on these older Carrier are know to fail. There has been a law suit action on this, not sure if this is still on or not.

The one thing I DO NOT like is that flex line coming into the unit's side. That is a bomb waiting to go off.. It should be a black pipe going though that hole to the gas valve.

I think there maybe a code LED light if I recall. What's the model # on this?
 
  #19  
Old 10-11-09, 07:07 PM
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Model # 58SX080-BC

Model # 58SX080-BC. I don't see a code led but would like to know if there is one that I'm missing.

Ok, what is bad about flex lines? I just used one on my gas clothes dryer a couple of years ago. So you'd like to see pipe coming straight out of the furnace's gas valve, through the side of the housing, then more hard pipe to the main gas piping? Shouldn't there be a flex in there somewhere to take up any movement?

As far as a carrier dealer, I don't relish the thought of a $200 house call so whatever I can do myself, and I am very handy (just no experience on home furnaces), I'd like to.

Do you know where I can get more info on this particular model, specifically how to get that cover to come off without a lot of force? It's GOT to come off judging by what the yellow sticker says.

Where is the secondary heat exchanger?

By the way, the heat is on right now, working fine of course. I have an electronic air cleaner and I put the elements through the dishwasher today...so at least I feel like I got something accomplished!

Thanks!
 
  #20  
Old 10-11-09, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 26kick View Post
Model # 58SX080-BC. I don't see a code led but would like to know if there is one that I'm missing.
There is none on this model.

Ok, what is bad about flex lines? I just used one on my gas clothes dryer a couple of years ago. So you'd like to see pipe coming straight out of the furnace's gas valve, through the side of the housing, then more hard pipe to the main gas piping? Shouldn't there be a flex in there somewhere to take up any movement?
With the flex line right on/next to the sharp metal can get cut though over time when it rubs on the edge. There should be a metal pipe coming out side of that, then flex can be used.


Do you know where I can get more info on this particular model, specifically how to get that cover to come off without a lot of force? It's GOT to come off judging by what the yellow sticker says.
Here is a install manual.
Where is the secondary heat exchanger?
It's between the blower and heat exchanger. it can't be seen with out taking the furnace apart.

The law suite seems to be over, but I changed one furnace out just when I left the field, and it was not a pretty picture of what the heat exchanger looked like.
 
  #21  
Old 10-12-09, 09:01 AM
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Video of the problem

Jay, thanks for the excellent responses to my questions!

So this morning, I caught it malfunctioning and took video of it, in order to better explain the situation. Here are links to the two vids I took:

YouTube - Carrier furnace 58SX808-BC gas valve assy

YouTube - Carrier 58SX080-BC

It was stuck in a loop, as shown in the videos until I tapped on what I believe to be the solenoid that is the gas valve. It is the part you can hear clicking four times during each loop in the videos.

See EDIT below.....

I'm inclined to pull the gas valve assy. off and clean it out. It doesn't seem too difficult to remove, just pull the gas flex, wiring, and thermocouple, then twist it off the gas feed pipe that leads up to the burner box. Right?

Or maybe even just pull the top of the valve assy. off (4 silver/cad plated screws and rubber gasket)? That would be alot easier than undoing everything to pull the assy. However I don't know if there's anything spring loaded in there that I won't be able to put back together. Which I could find some info about those gas valve assys., or maybe an old broken one so I could pull it apart and check it out. Anyway, here's a pic of the solenoid on the assy:

SendPix

I don't think it's the board or any sensors because it worked after I tapped on the solenoid itself. What does your experience (gut) tell you about this?

EDIT:

Ok, it happened again this morning so I tried tapping and this time, no amount of tapping is getting it to start up. That must have been a coincidence last time. So I still have the the inducer fan, the pilot light, the solenoid clicking several times and the pilot going out.

Again, much appreciated!

Mark
 

Last edited by 26kick; 10-12-09 at 10:56 AM.
  #22  
Old 10-12-09, 11:00 AM
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26Kick,

More than likely you need to remove and clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.

You have a Carrier three wire pilot switch. The pilot orifice tends to get plugged up after a few years and can't put enough heat on the pilot switch to turn on the main burner.

If you turn up the thermostat and look carefully through the viewing point you will probably see the blue glow of the pilot burner off to the right, with the main burner not lighting.

The burner compartment door can stick closed if it hasn't been opened in a few years. You need to use something to break that seal so you can remove the cover to get to the pilot burner.

And you must remove the pilot orifice, which requires that the brass ferrule holding the pilot tubing in be removed.
 
  #23  
Old 10-12-09, 02:32 PM
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Thanks SeattlePioneer.

I wonder if you got a chance to look at the video I posted? To me, it seems that its an issue with how long the pilot stays lit, not how well it's lit. The clicking sound (faint in the video) is something affecting the flow of gas, whether it's the valve itself or something else causing the valve to close and open. Once it stays on (when working correctly) there's a delay before the burners fire.

Anyway, just let me know if you saw the video and how the pilot lights, then flickers several times then goes out.

Thanks,

26kick
 
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Old 10-12-09, 02:37 PM
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From viewing the video, it looks like the pilot burner needs to be disassembled with the pilot burner and pilot orifice cleaned.

Once the pilot lights, about the only thing that will cause the main burner to rapidly cycle on and off id if the pilot burner isn't keeping the pilot switch hot enough. When hot, the pilot switch turns on the main burner electrically. If it's not hot enough to keep it on, it can cycle on and off as you describe.

Pretty classic symptom.



Seattle Pioneer
 
  #25  
Old 10-12-09, 02:55 PM
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Dear Seattle,

I'm sorry for belaboring this but I think we are still misunderstanding each other. The problem is not with the main burners cycling on and off. That is not what I am describing.

I am describing the pilot light. It comes on, as it should, then a few seconds later the gas valve starts clicking and the pilot "cycles" several times before going out completely. The main burners are never involved. About 20 seconds (I'm guessing) later, the process repeats itself.

(I think) what you think I'm describing can be seen in this video, towards the end:

YouTube - Carrier 58SSB Gas Problems - Pilot Assembly

This videographer even mentions the fix you're talking about, probably because THIS is the classic symptom.

Again, sorry to go back and forth and thanks for the help!
 
  #26  
Old 10-12-09, 04:40 PM
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You are encouraging me to view videos of THINGS THAT AREN'T HAPPENING? That is not helping identify the problem.
 
  #27  
Old 10-13-09, 01:18 PM
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Hi
I had the same problem with my 58sx080 back a few years, Found that the intake had picked up a tree leaf and it was plugging the inake.
 
  #28  
Old 10-14-09, 10:23 AM
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Thanks dstar, I'll check that and report back.
 
  #29  
Old 10-14-09, 09:26 PM
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Both openings appear to be wide open outside. Plenty of air coming out of the outlet.

This intermittent problem started after I didn't run the furnace for over a year while we were remodeling. It is probably like most things, they deteriorate if you don't use them.

Still searching for the answer......
 
  #30  
Old 10-14-09, 10:42 PM
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From what i see, you either need to have the pilot assembly cleaned, or the flame sensor needs to be cleaned or replaced.
 
  #31  
Old 10-14-09, 10:45 PM
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Those are both behind that compartment door....that I can't seem to pry off, correct?

If so, I'll try harder. It's got to come off, or there's no way to service it.

Thanks
 
  #32  
Old 10-14-09, 10:51 PM
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yes, the stuff is behind the cover, you need to undo the screws, then undo the cover.. May have to pry it some what.

If i were you, I'd get a good Carrier Dealer out to check this out, and look at the secondary heat exchanger.
 
  #33  
Old 10-14-09, 10:55 PM
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We'll do.

Thanks for the help Jay. Much appreciated!

Best,

Mark
 
  #34  
Old 10-15-09, 07:56 AM
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Whenever a furnace's flame goes out prematurely, one should always check to see if the power stopped flowing out of the pressure switch, if the ventor keeps running. And if the ventor also goes out - to also check to see if power was lost coming from the stat. 2 very quick tests, to help hone in on the problem.
 
  #35  
Old 10-15-09, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Whenever a furnace's flame goes out prematurely, one should always check to see if the power stopped flowing out of the pressure switch, if the ventor keeps running. And if the ventor also goes out - to also check to see if power was lost coming from the stat. 2 very quick tests, to help hone in on the problem.
Where is the pressure switch? And where would it be easiest to access the wires to test it?

I do know that the ventor (the fan that runs when there's a call for heat?) runs constantly while it is in it's loop (malfunctioning). I have not checked the ventor while the furnace is functioning normally. I will do that.

Thanks!
 
  #36  
Old 10-15-09, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 26kick View Post
Those are both behind that compartment door....that I can't seem to pry off, correct?

If so, I'll try harder. It's got to come off, or there's no way to service it.

Thanks

Heh, heh! When repairing gas fireplaces, sometimes I felt that the hardest part of the job was figuring out how to get the glass off the fireplace. Engineers can be tricky.
 
  #37  
Old 10-15-09, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 26kick View Post
Where is the pressure switch?
It is in the furnace's big door where the burner compartment is. Look for a roundish shaped vacuum diaphram thingy that has 2 or 3 individual electrical wires(24 vac) going to it, and also a usually orange, black or white, soft 1/4 inch rubber tubing going to it.

And where would it be easiest to access the wires to test it?
The wires plug right onto the switch itself. Right there is a good place to test.

I do know that the ventor (the fan that runs when there's a call for heat?) runs constantly while it is in it's loop (malfunctioning).
The ventor is supposed to always run with the stat energized, calling for heat. And on most furnaces, that is the first thing to start the entire ignition sequence, because that helps continue the 24 vac safety circuit, which is needed at the igniton module to activate 120 volts for igniton to a glow coil or sparker.

I have not checked the ventor while the furnace is functioning normally. I will do that.
If that is running, as it should be with the call for heat and during the entire heating cycle -nothing to check with it. The pressure switch is what needs checking, when the ventor runs.
 
  #38  
Old 10-15-09, 05:22 PM
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Thanks for the details!

I know right where the pressure switch is, by memory. I can't get at my furnace right now but I'll check it soon and report back.
 
  #39  
Old 12-01-09, 08:56 PM
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Furnace now working fine!

So I pried harder on the compartment to get to the pilot assy. and yes, I got it open.

I then had to pull the bottom of the compartment off in order to remove the pilot assy, which I did, then cleaned it as best I could. I put it all back together and have had no problems with it starting.

I'm sure that while we didn't use the furnace during our remodel, it "got dirty" and just needed to be cleaned.

Thanks for all of the responses!
 
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Old 12-02-09, 04:45 PM
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Thanks for letting us know..............
 
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