York 90 will not ignite -

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  #1  
Old 11-05-10, 09:02 AM
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York 90 will not ignite -

I have a York 90 model P3UR014N095-5 burner high eff. It was installed in my home in 1998 and worked flawlessly until around 2008, the I had to call a Tech out and he found I needed a Pressure Switch, He told me where to buy one which I did, in the mean time he told me I could connect the wires on the PS together and it would work, as a temporary measure. OK
My current problem is , the furnace will not ignite and I am getting a Code 7, 1.low gas pressure, 2.faulty gas valve 3.faulty hot surface ignitor or 4 Burner problem.
The Ignitor works and ignites the Pilot, but it soon goes out without igniting the burners. I have changed the Flame sensor, High Limit switch and Pressure Switch again. I also cleaned the Condensate box which was very contaminated. I thought that was the problem , but it was not.
The one item above is the Gas Valve, I don't want to spend $85.00 if its not the problem, how can I be sure if the gas valve is faulty.
I have tested it with a volt meter, and I get 24v when the gas valve opens for the Pilot.
 
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Old 11-05-10, 04:59 PM
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If you already cleaned the pilot flame sense, then I'd clean out the pilot orifice. And if you can, try to clean burners, especially in area of pilot flame.

If you do NOT get MV voltage, only the PV voltage as you say, then could be issues as stated. If you DO get MV votlage, and then it goes away in seconds (with no burner flame, as you say), then try rapping on gas valve with butt of screw driver, and see if that jostles the main valve to open.
 
  #3  
Old 11-06-10, 01:12 AM
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York 90 will not lite

Thanks for responding "ecman51, I have tried tapping on the gas valve several times it does nothing. I will try to clean the Pilot orfice, but doubt that is the problem, I get a pretty good flame for the pilot.
I am not certain what you mean by MV voltage and PV voltage, What I get is 24.8 volts when I test the Valve, then it kicks off.

Best price I found on a new Valve is $82.50 plus shipping, do you know where I can get a better price. ?
 
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Old 11-06-10, 07:42 AM
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I noticed something odd today, the furnace tries to start,The Inducer Fan starts, Hot surface ignitor comes on and pilot gas comes on, while the door is off the lower part of the cabinet, the switch there seems to not be working.
 
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Old 11-06-10, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bilhar381 View Post
Thanks for responding "ecman51, I have tried tapping on the gas valve several times it does nothing. I will try to clean the Pilot orfice, but doubt that is the problem, I get a pretty good flame for the pilot.
I am not certain what you mean by MV voltage and PV voltage, What I get is 24.8 volts when I test the Valve, then it kicks off.

Best price I found on a new Valve is $82.50 plus shipping, do you know where I can get a better price. ?
You said you tested pilot valve voltage (that is the PV abbreviation, as oft labeled on the gas valve). But did you ever test at the same gas valve's MV (Main burner Valve terminal, to see once you get the PV 24 volts, that it then shows up as 24 volts, even for a few seconds, from the MV terminal to common terminal on the gas valve? The PV and MV will share the same 3rd terminal common terminal, sometimes labeled PV/MV, so you volt test across MV and common(MV/PV) while the furnace tries to run, and hold it on the terminals and wait til you are certain the PV voltage has occured for at least a number of seconds, to know if the MV voltage is occuring then, for those say 3 seconds.
 
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Old 11-06-10, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bilhar381 View Post
I noticed something odd today, the furnace tries to start,The Inducer Fan starts, Hot surface ignitor comes on and pilot gas comes on, while the door is off the lower part of the cabinet, the switch there seems to not be working.
??? Nothing is going to even start, if the blower door switch is not working. ??? Oh, I see what you mean now. So you are saying the switch is apparently struck "closed". Hmmm. Did you try to rapidly push on the botton, repeatedly?
 
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Old 11-07-10, 03:42 AM
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Lower door switch

OK, I see what you mean by MVand PV, I did get 24v when I tested during the Pilot cycle, I did not try after the Pilot went out. I only have two terminals where power is provided not three (3) , I will try again and see if any voltage occur after the Pilot goes out.

The lower door switch- I wonder could this switch not working mean a bad Control Board. ??
 

Last edited by Bilhar381; 11-07-10 at 03:46 AM. Reason: Add to
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Old 11-07-10, 11:30 AM
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Because of what you said in your post 4, the answer to your question about blower door switch causing controlboard malfunction is no.

Pilot sensor not recognizing flame due to poor pilot flame, or main gas valve not opening or not igniting fast enough.

You really only have 2 wires on that gas valve? Can you send us a nice close up photo of the gas valve, plus other photos of all the parts in relation to each other in the big panel of the furnace, and a photo of the wiring diagram (which may be found on the inside of the blower door)?
 
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Old 11-08-10, 01:33 AM
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Gas Valve, yes two wires, a yellow one and a black one- I will try to send the photo's you requested, but I am without a working Digital Camera, I will borrow one and, I d on't as yet know the procedure for posting a photo. So bear with me.

I am concerned that a new Gas Valve will have three (3) Wire connections, not sure what to do with the spare space.
 
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Old 11-10-10, 04:27 PM
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You said that you tried to jump the pressure switch. Does it have 2 or 3 wires?
 
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Old 11-13-10, 04:32 AM
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It has two wires- I connected them together once before and it started up and ran, got a new PS, and it continued to run. I replaced it this time but no luck.
 
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Old 11-13-10, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bilhar381 View Post
It has two wires- I connected them together once before and it started up and ran, got a new PS, and it continued to run.
What is "it"? Is "it" the furnace? If so, what all ran and for how long?

I replaced it this time but no luck.
If you replaced "it" this time, what do you mean when in first quote above, you said you got a new PS and it continued to run? ???
 
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Old 11-14-10, 07:31 AM
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Hi ecman51- Yes "it" means the furnace, PS is Pressure Switch, as I stated I changed the PS- but the new one is different a bit from the old one, it does not mount properly, so I left it unmounted but connected to the tubes and Elect fittings, just hanging, this morning I was studying the wire diagram, and read where it states "all replaced parts must be grounded"- I went to the basement, (Mi) and screwed the PS to the bottom of burner box where it belongs, Guess what, the furnace came on and is working.
Thanks for all the help-Bill
 
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Old 11-14-10, 10:40 AM
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Huh. Not sure why a PS, from an operational standpoint, would make the PS not work if ungrounded, since the power goes through the wires and not thru the chasis. I also have not seen a blink-code LED system say shut down a furnace because somehow the module "knows" that it is ungrounded.

What I could maybe see though is that by you fastening it, presumably in it's normal orientation - the orientation caused the plunger to more freely retract (close) - maybe.

Metal parts are to be grounded simply from a safety standpoint. For example - if the PS electric switch shorted to the diaphram, and you were (especially)standing in water, and grabbed the diaphram, you could be shocked (tingled if only 24 volts).

Bets are - company wants to protect themselves from lawsuits.

Hope your problem is indeed fixed for good, and that you are not fooled by a coincidence.
 
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Old 11-15-10, 09:30 AM
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Well ecman51, your last sentence rang true, last night the dam thing would not come on again, gave up, then this morning for the hell of it, I tried again, thinking maybe something was stuck and needed time to release itself. Well the dam thing (furnace) came on and ran like clockwork. Then it would not work anymore after it shut down by reaching temp set on t-stat.
I had the same thoughts about grounding the PS, but thought I would do it just in case.
Another problem is the Blower motor continues to run, and it comes on after it trys to start up, but without heat. I have installed two new Limit switches, so that is not the problem, I wondering about Relays, I looked and don't see them. I assume they are built into the Control board. I am wondering if this is a Control Board problem ???
 
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Old 11-15-10, 05:15 PM
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The pilot flame has to contact metal - either a flame sensor rod or metal on the pilot assembly - to send tiny current back to the control, to let the main gas burners fire up. You may have to pullout the pilot assembly to investigate and polish metal down there at the pilot.
 
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Old 11-15-10, 08:12 PM
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Here are a couple of manuals on the furnace:

http://www.yorkupg.com/PDFFiles/035-...001-C-0704.pdf


Johnson Controls: York Products and Services: Product Info




The furnace uses a hot surface ignitor to light the main burners. There is no pilot light.
 
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Old 11-16-10, 08:24 AM
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Seattle is correct, it is a HSI, no pilot, -I have installed a new Flame Sensor, went back to the old one then back to the new one, it still runs the same (furn) Remember this furnace runs intermittently. The York Files Seattle provided are ok, but the Wiring diagram is not correct for this furnace.
 
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Old 11-16-10, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bilhar381 View Post
The Ignitor works and ignites the Pilot, but it soon goes out without igniting the burners. I have changed the Flame sensor, High Limit switch and Pressure Switch again. I also cleaned the Condensate box which was very contaminated. I thought that was the problem , but it was not.


We don't seem to be getting an accurate description of what is happening, which is essential to try to help you.


What should be happening is:

1) the thermostat calls for heat

2) the inducer motor turns on and comes up to speed

3) the hot surface ignitor turns on and gets white hot

4) the main burner gas switches on and lights off the hot surface
ignitor

5) The fan switches on to circulate air around the house.


How far in this sequence does your furnace get when its not operating properly?
 
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Old 11-17-10, 05:24 AM
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I get to number 4. It lights the Pilot gas, but then dies out without lighting the burners.
 
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Old 11-17-10, 06:04 AM
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A note, the wiring diagram can be seen at http://johnsonsupply.com/york2001/PUB/N4u.pdf, page 39, as you can see the Gas Valve has but two wires, a black and yellow.
 
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Old 11-17-10, 08:18 AM
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Since there is no pilot burner, there is no pilot gas. Please describe what you are describing as "lighting the pilot gas."
 
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Old 11-17-10, 09:14 AM
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The HSI Heats up, and lights Gas on the First burner to the left side, this is what I call the Pilot. The Flame sensor is on the far right side to the back. I have cleaned the Orfice on the Pilot burner, and other burners as well. I just read your number 4 again, are you saying all the burners should light at once, not just the far left burner.
 
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Old 11-17-10, 11:15 AM
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Yes, all the burners should light pretty much simultaneously.

If I am understanding your posts, the left burner lights promptly but the other burners don't light promptly and reliably.

That suggests they need further inspection to determine why they aren't lighting. Usually the reason is that burner carryover ports designed to carry the flame from burner to burner are plugged up, corroded or damaged in some way.

Inspect them again and see if you can identify the cause of the problem. Usually you'd want to remove them from the furnace to do that inspection, however, the burners in your furnace would be a job to remove.

At a minimum I'd use an inspection mirror carefully to inspect the carryover port "wings" for plugging, corrosion or damage and clean, reapir or replace them as needed.
 

Last edited by SeattlePioneer; 11-17-10 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 11-17-10, 01:57 PM
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Your right about it being a "Job' to remove the burners, I already took a look at that the other day- I will do my best to follow your directions above. The one burner that lights up is right over the HSI, which explains why it lights, a bit anyway.
 
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Old 11-17-10, 02:38 PM
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Look on the bright side: you aren't talking about buying and i installing a new gas valve, which wouldn't have solved the problem anyway!
 
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Old 11-18-10, 04:03 AM
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ha ha , the Bright side I want is lit burners, and whoever designed this Furnace needs his ass kicked, you cannot get the burner box out because it is blocked by the Gas line, which means removing the gas valve. Anyway I tried a small wrench on the screws that hold the burners in place. I quit last night before getting one out, but I will continue this morning and see whats going on with the burners.
Your very observant here in noting my mention of Pilot Gas, when there is in fact none. Thank you ! Will let you know what I find out. Bill in Michigan
 
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Old 11-18-10, 05:11 AM
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I got the burner out next to what I called the Pilot burner, next to last burner, I cleaned the wing slots, and cleaned up the burner a bit, it was pretty rusty, I put it back in and tried the Furnace, guess what it lit right up,(all br) Now I will have to wait and see if this is the cure or is it just an Intermittent run, will let you know >
 
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Old 11-19-10, 05:36 AM
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The furnace seems to be working ok now, comes on goes off and the fan no longer runs when its cold-Today I will clean another burner, and put the screws back in the one I took out- So much for Code 7, the dip **** who invented that must be the same guy who designed the burners to be blocked by the gas main.

Thanks again Seattle, your tip was right on ,,, Bill
 
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