Carrier 58STA Rapid Flash and Code 11


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Old 11-07-10, 05:47 AM
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Carrier 58STA Rapid Flash and Code 11

Hello all,

I have a Carrier 58STA (about 6 years old, original install) that has worked very well in those 6 years. This morning I awoke to a cold house (32F outside) with a temp well below the setpoint on the Tstat. I pulled off the blower cover to find the LED with a Rapid Flash, which is supposed to indicate incorrect polarity. I verified the polarity to be correct. After reading a bit, I removed the Tstat red wire to the R terminal, and jumpered (briefly, less than 2 sec) the Twin/Test to the correct terminal to perform the component test. The code displayed was one long, one short (no previous code). Then, each component operated as they should. After completion of the test, I restored everything to it's original condition, re-energized, and set the Tstat to 78 (curr temp 74). The blower started, then stopped after about 90 sec, then the inducer, then the burners lit, etc. Sounds good, eh? The temp moved up to 76 deg (2 less than the setpoint, and shut off. Now, I have the rapid flashing LED again.

The only thing of mention I can recall is it would seem the Blower Motor Speed Change Relay seems to have had some issues. I can recall the blower running (hot or cool temps), the relay clicking, and the motor operating abruptly. It seems to make a bit of a banging sound (no gas involved there, as you might imagine).

Any suggestions? I am at a loss as the polarity is correct, and it throws no other codes. BTW, after the component check, the LED went solid, until the failure. I assumed it worked as a bit of a reset.

Thanks!
 
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Old 11-07-10, 08:22 AM
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How did you verify that the polarity is correct?


If the polarity is correct then you have a bad circuit board. It's throwing off an erroneous signal and not functioning properly.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 09:11 AM
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With a Fluke 87A. I'm a 25 year electrician, just not HVAC experienced. I'm leaning towards the CB also. Do you know if there is any difference between ICM 282 and the OEM circuit board, other then the OEM thing and about $100?

Thanks for your response!
 
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Old 11-07-10, 09:24 AM
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Can't help you on possible circuit board substitutions.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 11:41 AM
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When you did your R red wire stat jumper test, ever leave it there long enough to see if furnace fires up and runs without shutting backdown? That way you can rule the stat is the issue or not the issue. You could also use your voltmeter to see if 24 vac current is going away from W terminal (at the furnace terminal connection) to C common or chasis ground.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
When you did your R red wire stat jumper test, ever leave it there long enough to see if furnace fires up and runs without shutting backdown? That way you can rule the stat is the issue or not the issue. You could also use your voltmeter to see if 24 vac current is going away from W terminal (at the furnace terminal connection) to C common or chasis ground.
Could you clarify for me which test you're referring to please? The test I performed was to remove the Red wire from the R terminal and jumper the Twin/Test connector to the Com24V terminal briefly, less than two seconds:

To Begin Component Self-Test:
Remove blower access door. Disconnect the thermostat R lead
from furnace control board. Manually close the blower door
switch. Short (jumper) the COM-24V terminal on control to the
TEST/TWIN 3/16-inch quick connect terminal on control
until LED goes out (approximately 2 sec). Gas valve and
humidifier will not be turned on. (See Fig. 24.)
NOTE: The furnace control allows all components, except the gas
valve, to be run for short period of time. This feature helps
diagnose a system problem in case of a component failure.
Component test feature will not operate if any thermostat signal is
present at the control.
Component test sequence is as follows:
Refer to service label attached to furnace or see Fig. 49.
a. LED will display previous status code 4 times.
b. Inducer motor starts and continues to run until Step f of
component test sequence.
c. Hot surface igniter is energized for 15 sec., then off.
d. Blower motor operates on HEAT speed for 10 sec.
e. Blower motor operates on COOL speed for 10 sec.
f. Inducer motor stops.

I do have one other thing to add, whether important or not, that I just noticed. For most of the Tstat connections, there is a matching wire on the terminal, heading around the back of the area where the coils are. From the Tstat loom, there is a green wire connected to the G terminal. On the output side, there is a green wire that is not connected to the terminal board - rather just dead ended, no tape, no wire nuts, nothing. Could that be relevant? It does not appear to have ever been connected anywhere.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 01:11 PM
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I see that you are complying with trying to do a components/sequence test.

Don't worry about the G wire. That would have nothing to do with your problem.

Rather than do the component test, you can find out about the pressure switch part by using voltmeter between a pressure switch terminal and a good ground on the furnace. You do this test twice. One test for each terminal, to ground. This test is done with the furnace on, runninng, and inducer fan running. You should have 24 volts to ground, no matter which of the two pressure switch wires that is being tested TO GROUND. NOT between each terminal. (I do not have enough time to injest the components test you printed. My eyes are glued to the exciting come from 2 touchdowns behind in regulatipon.......ready to go into overtime, of the Cardinals vs. Vikings game.)
 
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Old 11-07-10, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
I see that you are complying with trying to do a components/sequence test.

Don't worry about the G wire. That would have nothing to do with your problem.

Rather than do the component test, you can find out about the pressure switch part by using voltmeter between a pressure switch terminal and a good ground on the furnace. You do this test twice. One test for each terminal, to ground. This test is done with the furnace on, runninng, and inducer fan running. You should have 24 volts to ground, no matter which of the two pressure switch wires that is being tested TO GROUND. NOT between each terminal. (I do not have enough time to injest the components test you printed. My eyes are glued to the exciting come from 2 touchdowns behind in regulatipon.......ready to go into overtime, of the Cardinals vs. Vikings game.)
Just tested. With inducer running, approximately 26V to ground on each terminal of the Pressure switch. Vikings fan?
 
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Old 11-07-10, 01:43 PM
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I've always liked the Vikings, even when I liked Green Bay. That dates back to Fran Tarkenton. And Vikes pulled out the 4th quarter, down 2 touchdowns, come-from-behind victory - and Favre set a career record, in doing so. Simply amazing.

Your pressure switch and drafting is not the issue, based on your test results that are perfect. I will need to review the thread.

Okay, I am back after review. To keep from mudding the post, do not tell me about the components test. And we know how you believe the polarity was reversed due to the blink code. But tell me exactly what the furnace operation sequence is, how long each part of it lasts for, and where it goes wrong. Be sure to call the inducer blower the ID, and the house register blower as the circulation blower, or CB.
 

Last edited by ecman51; 11-07-10 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 11-07-10, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
I've always liked the Vikings, even when I liked Green Bay. That dates back to Fran Tarkenton. And Vikes pulled out the come-from-behind victory and Favre set a career record, in doing so. Simpy amazing.

Your presure switch and drafting is not the issue, based on your test. I will need to review the thread.
I appreciate the assistance, even if I used to be a Bears fan. Currently avoiding the KC bandwagon. They will probably take a shellacking today...
 
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Old 11-07-10, 01:57 PM
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Read the last paragraph of my last post, as I added that in.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Okay, I am back after review. To keep from mudding the post, do not tell me about the components test. And we know how you believe the polarity was reversed due to the blink code. But tell me exactly what the furnace operation sequence is, how long each part of it lasts for, and where it goes wrong. Be sure to call the inducer blower the ID, and the house register blower as the circulation blower, or CB.
Well, it's not always the same. I energize the system. If there is no call for heat, nothing happens. If there is a call for heat, the CB runs (I have not timed it) for about 2-3 minutes, then the CB stops. The ID then starts, the ignitor gets red hot, the gas valve (apparently) opens, and we have blue flame. Within 10 seconds or so, the CB starts and all is good. All of this occurs with a solid LED. Now, yesterday when I tested it, the LED changed to a rapid flash while the system was heating, and the system shut down short of the Tstat setpoint by two degrees. Today, it changed from a solid LED to rapid flash, but continued it's heating sequence to the Tstat setpoint. In both cases, once the rapid flash is in place, the system will not heat again without being reset (power off). In this state, the CB will continue to blow with no ignition or gas. I noticed this yesterday morning as I awoke to a house that was 62 degrees (32F outside), and the CB was running.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Yerfdog68 View Post
Well, it's not always the same. I energize the system. If there is no call for heat, nothing happens. If there is a call for heat, the CB runs (I have not timed it) for about 2-3 minutes, then the CB stops. The ID then starts, the ignitor gets red hot, the gas valve (apparently) opens, and we have blue flame. Within 10 seconds or so, the CB starts and all is good. All of this occurs with a solid LED. Now, yesterday when I tested it, the LED changed to a rapid flash while the system was heating, and the system shut down short of the Tstat setpoint by two degrees. Today, it changed from a solid LED to rapid flash, but continued it's heating sequence to the Tstat setpoint. In both cases, once the rapid flash is in place, the system will not heat again without being reset (power off). In this state, the CB will continue to blow with no ignition or gas. I noticed this yesterday morning as I awoke to a house that was 62 degrees (32F outside), and the CB was running.
It only became bad (fast blink code, will not restart - unless reset) when you tested? Why were you testing if it worked fine before testing? Or was it doing the same problem, only on say that one occasion, it happened to work right?

Does the ID shut down as soon as the fire goes out prematurely?
 
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Old 11-07-10, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
It only became bad (fast blink code, will not restart - unless reset) when you tested? Why were you testing if it worked fine before testing? Or was it doing the same problem, only on say that one occasion, it happened to work right?

Does the ID shut down as soon as the fire goes out prematurely?
It no longer works correctly, though it may make it through one heating cycle correctly:

1. Sat morning. House - 63 degress. Found CB running with no heat and rapid flashing.
2. Power down, then back up. LED solid. Furnace runs as intended for a variable amount of time, sometimes to the Tstat setpoint, sometimes less. During the cycle, the LED changes to rapid flashing, but the system does not immediately shut down.

After powering down, I ran the component test. Before the components operate, it provides the fault code, or 11, if no faults. I have only seen the 11 code, and the Rapid flash.

Yesterday, when the system stopped running before hitting the Tstat setpoint, I was not in the furnace room to see if the ID shutdown when the fire went out.

If that doesn't clarify, I will be glad to try to explain again.
 
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Old 11-07-10, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Yerfdog68 View Post
I was not in the furnace room to see if the ID shutdown when the fire went out.
Do that when you can, and get back with me. And if/when you do, make certain that on that test run, that the fire is indeed shutting down before set point is reached.

Your furnace goes into a lockout (which is why you have to reset it). Note that since that is the case, if when the furnace does fail, that it tries to redo the ignition sequence 3 times again, on it's own, without you resetting it, before it locks out.

(I have to leave the board for tonight.)
 
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Old 11-07-10, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Do that when you can, and get back with me. And if/when you do, make certain that on that test run, that the fire is indeed shutting down before set point is reached.
To clarify, I know for a fact that this weekend, after seeing the code, at least one time it shut down before reaching the setpoint, and at least one time it ran until reaching the setpoint. Most recently, it reached the setpoint. The issue is, regardless of what point it reaches, when it shuts down, it will not fire up again without being powered down. Does that make sense?
 
 

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