Oil Burning Furnace: Bad Ignitor?

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-18-10, 07:44 AM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Oil Burning Furnace: Bad Ignitor?

Thanks again for checking in Hank.

Also, Grady, if you are still out there . . . I wonder if you remember me? I am the guy who had many problems with a Carrier Oil Burning Furnace and ended up with a replacement furnace. At the end of that story I used my combustion kit to fine tune my new furnace and you advised me to not touch it again as long as my numbers remained what they were.

So, I lived happily ever after (for two years) using my new wood burning stove and my new furnace very sparsely in the Spring of each year. Until now. Would you believe the crazy thing conked out on me the other day?

Doing what all good do-it-yourselfers do when their oil furnace conks out, I immediately changed the nozzle. When I took it apart, everything looked as new and clean and shiny and dry as the day it was installed; but, I changed the nozzle and that didn't help.

So, then I went down the trouble shooting list that I have for the mechanical side of the furnace and found everything was okay, except the electrodes were somehow out of alignment. I reset those, but no go on the attempt by the burner to light.

Next (and I am very very weak on electrical stuff), I took my multitester and saw that I had 120v going into the furnace, and into the primary control. But, I couldn't figure out how to test from the primary to the ignition because the hot wire going into the ignition was wired in a pig tail/orange wire nut with two other wires. The white, neutral, wire from the ignition to the primary had a plastic connection and clipped right into the primary, but my problem was how to test the hot wire in the plastic wire cap with the other wires.

Anywho . . . I remembered a segment in a burner/furnace DVD set I got from Rick the "Boiler Man" in the New England area, I think. I pulled out my DVD's from him and got a refresher on how to test a transformer or ignition with a screwdriver--pulling it across the springs to see an arc. Actually, I should have had my wife take a photo of me doing this, it would get a few laughs. I took the ignition off and wired it right into the wall with an ex-extension cord. The photo would have shown the ignitor on an oak tv tray and me standing next to it on a piece of wood in my living room wearing a yellow rubber dishwashing glove and holding a piece of wood with a screwdriver ducked taped to it dragging it across the springs but no spark. No arc.

So, in my ignorance, I would think this is a no brainer and when my new ignitor arrives in the mail, hopefully today, hopefully I will install it and be back in business. But, I thought I would post this in case any had any comments.

I read online in an article that it is "very very rare" for an ignition/transformer to go bad in one year of usage. But, I also read in my Beckett Oil Burner Guide that one cause for premature failure with an ignition is if the electrodes are too far out of spec. So, I guess this kind of makes sense and is another lesson learned. I did not put my gauge on the electrodes when it was installed new. I just let the installers do their thing and after they left I got out my combustion kit and did my thing.

So, I guess we will see . . .

--Rick
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-18-10, 09:57 AM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,503
I'm not an oil guy so I have no expertise on your problem.

I'm imagining that I'd look for a way to test for continuity across the coils of the transformer to see if you can detect a failure.
 
  #3  
Old 11-18-10, 03:23 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
In case anyone is available to talk . . . I'm working on my furnace right now.

I just replaced the ignition and the furnace started/lite like is should but it was running very rough. It was rumbling way too much and running so rough that it made the vent in the stack pulse open and close continuiously until it started puffing back smoke into the room and I shut it down.

Now I'm trying to figure out why it would be running so rough. It occurs to me that:

1.) I repositioned the electrodes so this could account for a change

2.) Maybe I didn't bleed the lines well enough, although I think I did

3.) Possibly I need to adjust the air to compensate for the electrode change

I dont' know . . . if anyone is around and can help this evening, I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks,
Rick
 
  #4  
Old 11-18-10, 03:30 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Also:

On the side of the burner where the air settings have marks numbered from 0 through 10, I am pretty much on the zero right now with the air bands. The shutter is on 6.

4.) Or to add to the list below, possible oil in the furnace from my hitting the reset button 5 times or more a couple days ago is causing the rough running and blow back?
 

Last edited by Rick's Furnace; 11-18-10 at 03:51 PM.
  #5  
Old 11-18-10, 04:39 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Air/Electrodes

Whoa there fella. Don't go messing with the air just because the electrodes were out of whack.

First of all refresh my memory as to the make & model of the new furnace. Given that information & presuming it has a Beckett burner I can give you the factory set-up numbers.
 
  #6  
Old 11-18-10, 04:40 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Hurray!!! The calvary is here!

Be right back with the info . . .
 
  #7  
Old 11-18-10, 04:45 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Carrier 58cma105131112

Beckett AFG


It filled the room up with smoke when I started it & was running very rough. I didn't touch anything except the electrodes and it was running great (hitting my numbers perfectly).
 
  #8  
Old 11-18-10, 04:53 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Carrier 58CMA105

Nozzle: .65x70 B
Pump: 130#
Air Shutter: 8
Air Band: 0
Electrodes: 5/16" above nozzle center
1/16" in front of nozzle face
5/32" apart
 
  #9  
Old 11-18-10, 04:58 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
My air shutter is actually set on 7.

When I tuned it up for the first time I tried a few different nozzles and ended up with my numbers best with a .55 x 70B.

Do you think I might be burning some oil in the chamber from hitting the reset button 5 times or so the other day Grady?

I'm not sure why it ran great a couple days ago, then lost the ignitor, and after replacing the ignitor it runs so poorly and smokes now?



Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Nozzle: .65x70 B
Pump: 130#
Air Shutter: 8
Air Band: 0
Electrodes: 5/16" above nozzle center
1/16" in front of nozzle face
5/32" apart
 
  #10  
Old 11-18-10, 05:09 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Reset 5 Times?

OMG. No wonder you had smoke & rumbling. I hope that thing has a 15 second safety instead of the old 45 second ones.

With the .55 nozzle @ 130# you are actually firing at about .62-.63 gph. If it works well, don't monkey with it.
 
  #11  
Old 11-18-10, 05:11 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Is it a matter of letting it burn to clean itself on the inside, and to run smoother at this point?

It really smells up the house in short order.
 
  #12  
Old 11-18-10, 05:16 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
At this point the best thing to do is open some windows & fire 'er up. It should settle down in a few minutes. While it's burning off you might want to give it a little more air. If you can see the flame, you'll know when most of the excess is burned off & you can cut back the air to where it was.
 
  #13  
Old 11-18-10, 05:18 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Thanks very much Grady. If I decide to try this now, are you going to be around the forum for awhile or is it getting close to your bedtime?
 
  #14  
Old 11-18-10, 05:35 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
I'll probably be around for close to another hour. If the flame doesn't settle down in just a few minutes, shut it down & make sure the nozzle is snug in the adaptor.
 
  #15  
Old 11-18-10, 05:43 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Okay, wish me luck. Here I go . . .
 
  #16  
Old 11-18-10, 05:55 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
SUCCESS!!! There's no success like real success!

It smoked and rumbled and then settled down and sounds good now.


It has run for about 10 minutes now and I have negative .01 over the fire and positive .03 in the stack.

My smoke tester is giving me what looks like a light oily spot right now, I'll try this again later.

Any comments sir?

I'll get more numbers and report back with these in a bit and catch up with you tomorrow if need be.

What a champ Grady! Seriously thanks very-very much!
 
  #17  
Old 11-18-10, 06:12 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Well looks like this is where I end up for tonight:

Over the fire <.01>

In the stack +.03

Stack temp 480 - room temp = 405 degrees

Smoke test: trace


All things considered, I'll take readings again this weekend and post those here.

What a good day!
 
  #18  
Old 11-18-10, 06:45 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Trace of Smoke

I don't like even a trace of smoke especially if it has a yellow tint to it. This may require another good long run or two. Natural instinct is to increase the air but don't do it yet. That yellow tint is often an indication of raw fuel being blown right thru the furnace. If I have a choice of a yellow tint or a grey one, I'll go grey every time. Get your settings back to where you had them, run it for a while & re-check.
 
  #19  
Old 11-18-10, 06:52 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Will do! Thanks again so much. Talk to you in a day or so.
 
  #20  
Old 11-18-10, 07:50 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
Take a quick peek at the burner inspection port you should see nice bright yellow flame but any other colour either too much air or not enough air but if lazy orange colour open up the air port but as Grady mention just leave it alone for time being to let it burn up any redsuie in the burner chamber.

Merci.
Marc
 
  #21  
Old 11-20-10, 10:40 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brantford Ontario Canada
Posts: 117
"I read online in an article that it is "very very rare" for an ignition/transformer to go bad in one year of usage. But, I also read in my Beckett Oil Burner Guide that one cause for premature failure with an ignition is if the electrodes are too far out of spec."

If it was a Beckett electronic transformer I wouldn't be surprised that didn't last a year. The furnaces we install have beckett burners and probably half get a new transformer within a year. We replace them with a Allanson 628 transformer which is the older style transformer. I replaced 3 last week.
 
  #22  
Old 11-22-10, 08:07 AM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Thanks very much French and PFD, very helpful on both counts.

Today after tuning up the furnace with my combustion kit I find myself wondering about the difference in my numbers between last time (the first time it was tuned up) and today. The new igniter that I installed last week (Beckett AFG #5177U) stated:

"Beckett has redesigned the base plate and barrier gasket to provide more consistent burner static pressure. Enhancements include 'tab and slot configuration for robust mounting and to ensure that barrier gasket is centered properly on base plate; and new barrier gasket design for tighter sealing around cad cell to eliminate air leakage."

If my notes from last time are correct, with my .55 X 70B nozzle @ 135 PSI I have a yield of 91k input and 74k output; 65 US GPH. So this means according to my furnace manual that my minimum flue draft should be -0.025 and my maximum over-fire draft should be 0.010.

Today after observing a trace of smoke (#1 smoke) at about 5.5 and then moving the shutter to about 6.5 to observe no smoke I came in at 0.025 in the flue and -0.010 over the fire. So, if I am understanding the above minimum and maximum correctly, I am okay with these numbers and good to go?

Last time I tuned up the furnace (with the old style transformer) I had -0.029 in the flue and 0.011 over the fire. So, my shutter setting and numbers have changed with the only difference being the transformer as far as I can tell.

And, now as I reread what I have written above, I think I am confused now about minimums and maximums as it relates to positive and negative numbers.

Could some please review my numbers and see if it looks like I am in the proper range today?

When a minimum of -0.025 is called for in the flue, does this mean they are calling for this or more negative pressure in the stack like -0.025 to -0.035 or -0.045 and so on? Likewise on the over the fire spec, when they call for a maximum of 0.010 does this mean that it should be this number or lower like a negative number?

This is a little frustrating because about 2 years ago I purchased a combustion kit and did much reading and studying about oil burners, and felt somewhat competent on a lower level of understanding, but now it seems I have forgotten the basics! Isn't that something Grady, all the time you spent with me last time and now I am almost starting over.

Thanks very much for any help with getting my numbers right and for understanding the difference in my numbers this time versus last time.

--Rick
 
  #23  
Old 11-22-10, 03:14 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Draft Numbers

The way I read it:

-0.025 is the least amount of draft in the stack you want. -0.03, -0.04 etc. would be ok.

+0.01 would be the max pressure you'd want overfire. Neutral (0.00) to something slightly negative I would think would be ok.

Something's fishy about your numbers. You're telling me you have pressure in the stack & draft overfire???? If so, something is badly amiss. Any change in overfire draft when the circulating fan comes on?
How about in the flue?
 
  #24  
Old 11-22-10, 03:42 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Now, I'm wondering if I forgot how to read my draft meter.

For my draft reading in the stack I came in 2 1/2 marks to the right of zero. On this meter five marks to the right of zero is .05 I took this to be a draft reading of (positive) +0.025

For my draft reading over the fire, I came in 1 mark to the left of zero which I took to be (negative) -0.010

I'll bet I'm not reading this correctly and I supplied bad numbers. Can you verify my numbers based on the marks I shared were on my meter? On both the positive side (right side) and negative side (left side) of 0 or neutral I have five marks until I get to .05
 
  #25  
Old 11-22-10, 07:13 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Bacharach?

If this is the critter: Bacharach &bull; Products &bull; Combustion Analyzers &bull; Draft Gauges

Negative (draft) is to the right of zero & positive (pressure) is to the left.
 
  #26  
Old 11-22-10, 07:15 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
I did read the figures and I did converted the numbers what I have in my notes to match your burner size and one thing it kinda bother me about the postive draft pressure I don't really feel confortable with that number you should have negtive draft pressure once the furance stablized.

If you did read it real quick when the furance stack is semi cold that can skewered the reading pretty big time.

I rather see the stack run -.030 to -.045 { just make sure you don't go over that number otherwise you will have new issue crop up.}

Which way your flue run and any elbows { any angles counts } and flue size and rough estame height as well.

Merci.
Marc
 
  #27  
Old 11-23-10, 04:00 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Yep, that's the same one I have. Great. I did forget how to read my draft meter!

Okay, now I can see that I am at -0.025 in the flue and + 0.010 over the fire. Thanks very much for this.

Now (cue sad violin music) I have to go out and work on my car after a long day at work. But, I do want to come back to this and hopefully you guys will still be here to talk more.

Thanks again Marc and Grady very much!

In case tomorrow gets away from me and I don't get back here until Friday, I hope you both have a very Happy Thanksgiving!
 

Last edited by Rick's Furnace; 11-23-10 at 04:28 PM.
  #28  
Old 11-23-10, 05:23 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
That's Better

OK, those readings make a lot more sense. If you would have had more draft overfire than in the flue, something would be wrong, big time.

Thank you for the good wishes. I'm sure Marc doesn't mind me speaking for both of us in saying we hope you & yours also have a great Thanksgiving.

Good luck with the car.
 
  #29  
Old 11-23-10, 08:04 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
Thanks Grady .,

Rick ., The numbers you have there you should be allright as long you keep the draft in that range [ but if it get to .015 then you may have to check around with flue or others items for obstructions ( If on windy day it will invoid the readings )

And Oui., Happy Thanksgiving to you.


Merci.
Marc
 
  #30  
Old 11-26-10, 02:03 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
New Development

I think something in electrode assembly is leaking oil . . .

Thanks again Marc and Grady for the help with my numbers.

I did a little more "tuning up today" and put my numbers back exactly where they were during the first year when things were so good (namely stack -.029 and over the fire +.011). So, I'm happy to have replaced the transformer and get my numbers in a good place.

BUT . . . I have not told you guys about something because I wanted to keep things simple with the first two things I worked on. I have had another problem crop up just since I replaced the transformer and the new nozzle.

I think something in the electrode assemble is leaking oil after the furnace shuts down. I say this because if the furnace does not start up again for an hour or two or more during warm weather days, it runs rough for a minute or so and the damper makes a noise opening and closing repeatedly and we get a mini-puff back of smoke before things smooth out with the burner. On cold days when the furnace is running regularly this is not an issue . . . which is why I think it is a very slow leak (and small amount of oil) and only what can leak out from the fuel line/nozzle area when it is not under pressure.

I probably should not attempt to trouble shoot here because I couldn't even read my draft meter this year. But, in my mind there is a leak in one of two places in the electrode assembly:

1.) Where the fuel line threads into the nozzle adapter

2.) Where the nozzle threads into the adapter

In my mind if the pump was not cutting off quickly enough then I would have the rumbling and damper clanging and min-puff back each time the furnace started (not just when the oil had had enough time to accumulate over a period of time and cause a problem). This is why I'm thinking it's in one of these two areas.

When you suggested I try tightening the nozzle earlier in this thread, Grady, I did . . . and I also put in a second nozzle this year to make sure it wasn't leaking out of the end of the nozzle somehow.

But, this is the only cause I can think of for this new development/problem that I am having.

Actually, I have to wonder if I didn't cause this problem somehow because it didn't exist before I changed the transformer and did a tune up this year. I have read that "oil burning furnaces are notorious for developing multiple problems at once."

But, regardless of the causality, I find myself again at your mercy asking for advice on my new problem and how I might fix-it-myself. I actually enjoy working on this furnace believe it or not--especially when I fix something and am successful (with a little help from my friends)!

Thanks again very much,
Rick
 
  #31  
Old 11-26-10, 02:34 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Fuel "leak"

Several possibilities here, Rick.
1. It could indeed be the pump especially if the pump is a Beckett Clean Cut with a fuel solenoid AND the system is gravity fed. I am not particularly fond of the Clean Cut pumps due to several failures of the same nature as yours.
2. It could be the nozzle to nozzle adaptor particularly if you've tightened the nozzle really tight. If the nozzle is tightened too tight you can actually stretch the brass threads of the adaptor or slightly gawl the face of the adaptor.
3. If it were the 3/16" line to the nozzle tube joint usually you will see oil on the outside of the burner body as well.

A way to test the pump is to disconnect the 3/16" line from the nozzle tube, remove the nozzle assembly, & place a white paper towel or napkin under the end of the line but not touching it. Make sure the line is level, turn off the power to the furnace, leave things alone for a couple of hours, & then look for red drops on the paper. Red = bad pump.

Do this & get back to us. If need be we'll go on from here.
 
  #32  
Old 11-29-10, 02:23 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
I have a couple of stories to tell with this furnace . . . but for tonight's adventure I noticed the counterwieght on the damper has fallen off. I cannot find it on the floor, so I am trying to rig something with a nut and bolts to work for now. Does anyone have any suggestions for doing this.

Not sure how long the damper wieght has been off.
 
  #33  
Old 11-29-10, 02:47 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Well, this is starting to get a tad frustrating.

I was very happy today when I came up with the idea of sliding a white strip of paper under the nozzle line assembly. After I did this I could see that it was leaking from where the nozzle line threaded into the nozzle adapter.

So, I pulled out the assembly and found that I got 1/2 turn on the nozzle adapter with little effort. I put it back in bled the line and ran a cycle and then put another strip of paper under there for an hour to find the leak was fixed.

Long story short it still rumbled on start up and the damper clamoured away. So after a time of depression it occurred to me to look at the damper adjustment. This is when I noticed it had fallen off at some point.

I"m not having much luck with my bolt bin . . . I rigged something up and hit the thermostat for a call for heat but I couldn't seem to calm things down no matter how I adjusted my homemade counterwieght.

I might be wrong, of course, but I am thinking I might be a counterwieght away from a fix here at this point.

Any thoughts for this tired wanna be furnace tech?
 
  #34  
Old 11-29-10, 04:39 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Okay, I know I'm making too many posts here; but, here's an update:

I found a combination of one bolt and two nuts that I was able to adjust to a point where my damper is working properly now. I have a smooth and proper start up and my numbers are correct. I did two start ups successfully.

Now I am letting the furnace cool down to try a start up from a cold start as a test. If this works then I think I will be good to go.

Wish me luck!

"As the sand moves through the hour glass, so are the days of our lives."
 
  #35  
Old 11-29-10, 04:56 PM
SeattlePioneer's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 5,503
Always glad to hear good news!
 
  #36  
Old 11-29-10, 06:54 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Good work

Gotta give you a lot of credit for hanging in there & toughing your way thru. Those counter weights, I think, can somehow fall right thru a floor & never leave a trace. I wish they sold them separately but no, you either have to rig something or buy a whole damper.
 
  #37  
Old 11-29-10, 07:59 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
I am glad you found a way to slove few issue there and for the dampers yeah tell me about it.,,, I have few dampers parts fling out and never find them so I useally make my own parts like short nut and bolt and few hevey washer to conterweight you have to experment a little to get correct setting.

Anything else on the damper need to be replace it have to be in the whole thing {BEEP} .,,,

Merci,
Marc
 
  #38  
Old 11-30-10, 04:46 AM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Update:

Thanks to all for the encouragement and commiseration. By way of an update, when I left off yesterday things were good and I was going to let the furnace cool down and try a cool start and then double check my numbers.Last night after it cooled down for an hour and I restarted it it did not run smoothly like it did during my repeated tests with the furnace hot. I tried it again this morning and had the same experience, close but no cigar. :NO NO NO: I think I have the damper adjusted as good as it can be right now, so now I find myself pondering what could still be keeping my furnace from starting up smoothly from a cold position. As I say, things are pretty good when it is warm/hot and running regularly like on a cold day, but the less than smooth start-up (which includes a small amount of damper clanging) is unfortunately not acceptable.

There are two things that I am considering now as I have been racking my brain and going over things to try to figure out what could still be amiss here, these are:

1.) Nozzle to Tip Spacing: When I look at my Beckett Manual I see a mechanical drawing showing the electrode position just as Grady has shared earlier in the thread:
Originally Posted by Grady View Post
Electrodes: 5/16" above nozzle center 1/16" in front of nozzle face 5/32" apart
But, in the front view of this drawing I can see that the tips of the electrodes are down past the nozzle. (I tried to post this drawing below but couldn't figure out how) If any have access to this drawing through the Beckett website or other, you can see what I mean. And, the point of all this is when I put my orange plastic gauge over my nozzle and set my electrodes according to this, the tips of the electrodes stick up above the nozzle. So when I place my nozzle line assembly in my hand and look at the front view of it as compared with the front view of the Beckett drawing it doesn't match.


2.) Static Pressure Plate:
Yesterday I was staring at the drawing of the whole burner in the back of my manual trying to figure out what could be keeping me from a smooth start-up and I noticed something about the nozzle line assembly. The one in the drawing has the static plate removed . . . but my static plate is still on my assembly. In the drawing there is just the triangular shaped, 3-pointed part that positions the assembly in the burner tube, but mine has the static plate in place held on by one screw. So I called customer service at Beckett and was told the static plate needs to be removed. The customer service lady said, "even if you purchase a new assembly for this (zpart# NL53XN 'nozzle line electrode assembly) it will come with a static plate on it and you need to remove it before installation."

So this is where my mind is at now . . . I used the Beckett gauge to set my electrodes but they don't match the drawing, and I have a static plate in the burner tube that according to the customer service lady shouldn't be in there.


Hmmm . . .
 

Last edited by Rick's Furnace; 11-30-10 at 07:14 AM.
  #39  
Old 11-30-10, 03:45 PM
Rick's Furnace's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 61
OKAY!!!! Now we can uncork the champagne (or beer)!


Since I made my last post this morning, I went ahead and pulled out the nozzle line assembly to recheck the electrode settings. And, I know this sounds pretty stupid, but the bottom line is when I use my orange plastic Beckett Z gauge to set my electrodes they are set way too high out of spec as they were when I pulled the assembly out.

So I reached into my "professional kit" and pulled out another gauge I ordered once before, a Beckett T105 multipurpose gauge. And, using the appropriate marks on this one and the ruler at the bottom of the gauge to double check things, I bent the electrodes down to where they needed to be and guess what? When I put it back together I now have smooth good starts (regardless of whether the furnace is hot or cold) with no damper clanging or fumes or anything but what we want.

An interesting thing to me is that after setting the electrodes correctly, I had to go down to the air setting of #5 to get my numbers right and a bright yellow flame. I was running at #7 since I had the furnace. I guess I was correcting for a problem or two at that setting.

I ran out of time today and did not have time to work with it more. I never did get a trace of smoke at #5 setting. I think I would like to hit it again when I have time to see where I do get a trace of smoke at just so I can know.

To have my furnace back in a set-it and forget-it mode is a very nice thing, I'm one happy camper right now. BUT . . . I wonder if anyone has any comments on the static plate that I have on my nozzle line assembly. The customer service lady said take it off.

Maybe I am still compensating for a problem with my air setting at #5. Maybe the furnace would be even more efficient if I took it off and then made adjustments again? Maybe I should just quit while I'm ahead?



To be honest though, I'm not sure what just happened with all this. The furnace was running very well then the transformer failed and my adventure started. I wonder if the improvements to the transformer gaskets affected things as it relates to static pressure and caused some changes?
 
  #40  
Old 11-30-10, 04:24 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Just saw your most recent post. The best thing to do with that piece of orange plastic crap is to toss it in either the trash or combustion chamber. I wonder how many BTU there are available in one of those things.

In looking at Beckett's OEM Spec Guide online, I see the spec'd static plate is shown as 3 3/8"R. What the "R" means I can't seem to find out. I'll betcha I place a call to Beckett tomorrow.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes