RUUD Silhouette II igniter timing

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Old 10-15-11, 10:40 AM
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RUUD Silhouette II igniter timing

I have a RUUD Silhouette II UGPH-10EAMER

Cycle:
Call for heat
Vent Fan comes on
30 sec or so the igniter sparks (cleaned good spark)
5 sec as the gas valve opens the igniter stops
no flame detected so gas valve shuts off
house fan comes on

My question is, is there a way of adjusting the timing of the igniter so it is sparking while the gas valve is open? Currently the gas ignites about 75% if the time. If no adjustment is possible do I need to replace the igniter or the board?

Thank you in advance
Brian
 
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Old 10-15-11, 09:05 PM
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Thank you for providing the model and serial number of your furnace and a good description of the operation of the furnace. Why more people don't do that is a mystery to me --- it's essential to providing meaningful help.

Your furnace has a direct spark ignition system. The spark should turn on and the gas valve should open, and the furnace burners should light from the spark.

If the burners light, the flames should be detected by the flame sensor, a small rod that sticks up into the burner flames with a single thin wire that goes back to the ignition control circuit board. If the flame is properly detected, the burners remain lit. If the flames are neot detected, the gas is shut off after 3-5 seconds and the ignition cycle repeats itself.

Since the burners are lighting most of the time, the gas should be turning on while the spark is operating. That implies that the flame isn't being detected.

The usual cause of that is a flame sensor coated with invisible oxides. Remove the flame sensor and clean it with a wire brush or fine sandpaper. You don't need to cut into the metal of the flame sensor ---you are just cleaning the surface so the metal is exposed to the flame.

Try that and see what happens. If it doesn't work, reply again with a careful description of what is happening.
 
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Old 10-15-11, 10:00 PM
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When the burner lights it stays on until it reaches the desired temperature, so I beleive the flame sensor is working properly. The issue is the direct spark shutting off just as the gas valve open. So when the burner lights it is by one residual spark from the direct spark, they seem to be out of sync. i.e. direct spark turns on 0 - 5 sec, at 5.25 sec to 8 sec the gas valve opens. The 2 times do not overlap to allow the direct spark to ignite the gas.
 
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Old 10-15-11, 10:19 PM
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That's an unusual problem. There is no way to adjust how long the spark stays on on direct spark ignition controls in my experience. That implies that the ignition control is defective and needs to be replaced.

But it really deserves more investigation before reaching that conclusion. Please post the make and model of the ignition control and I'll see if I can find the sequence of operation for that particular control.
 
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Old 10-16-11, 11:14 AM
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The automaic ignitor is built into the control board ( round blue part with single lead coming out the center going to the ignitor), here is the numbers I found.
Model 1028-92B
RHEEM PIN 62-24140-02

By the ignitor on the board it says
Automatic ignitor
24VAC 60 Hz 0.5 amps

I did see an error code when the burner failed to lite the entire sequence but I do not have any markings as to what the error codes mean and I do not have the owners manual.

The power lite was solid on
The "OK" lite blinked once.

Thank you again for helping with this issue
Brian
 
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Old 10-16-11, 11:18 AM
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Ok just found the error code on another website, 1 blink means failure to detect flame after 3 tries. So yes I knew that already + the chilly house conferms that.

So much for gaining useful information from the code.
 
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Old 10-16-11, 02:08 PM
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either the control is failing by not sparking after the gas valve opens or the gas valve is not opening quickly when the signal is received. Check for 24V at the gas valve while the ignitor is sparking. If it is sparking and the GV has power but you are not getting any gas then you have a bad GV. If the GV has no power while it is sparking then you to find the open limit or verify what if anything the power runs through after coming out of the Control board.
 
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Old 10-16-11, 06:33 PM
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The gas valve is getting 24vac at the same time the ignitor starts how ever the ignitor only sparks for about 2 sec, which doesn't seem to be enough time for the gas to travel to the jets.
 
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Old 10-16-11, 06:51 PM
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the ignitor should not stop sparking until the flame is lit or the ignition attempt has time out. sounds like the board may be bad.
 
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Old 10-16-11, 07:02 PM
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I would normally expect the gas and spark to stay on for 3-5 seconds before shutting off if the burners don't light. That implies that the ingition control is bad and needs to be replaced.

However, I can't say that I ever saw the timer on a circuit board shorten the gas/spark time on period --- so that makes that diagnosis suspect, but not necessarily wrong.

Personally, I'd remove and clean the burners and burner manifold orifice, and experiment with some slight repositioning of the spark electrodes to see if you can get that to light reliably.

You want to clean and check everything that could be interfering with the burner lighting.

Inspect the electrodes for wear, poor positioning or other problems. Sometimes the electrodes get eroded away by the spark and need to be replaced.
 
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Old 10-16-11, 09:45 PM
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I was thinking it is a board problem also.

The ignitor has been cleaned and is positioned directly in the gas path. It has a good visible spark at first. I can hear the ignitor control clicking when it is sparking.
 
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Old 11-16-11, 10:04 PM
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Did you ever find a solution for this brian2112? I'm having a similar issue with a similar setup/ignitor but my ignitor is far more intermittent and doesn't stay lit continuously for more than a second or two max (when it does at all). I'm thinking it may be the board/ignitor transformer but would like to see if you ever found a solution. Thanks.
 
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