Which Thermostat Please


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Old 11-15-11, 11:23 AM
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Which Thermostat Please

Hi,

I recently purchased a 6 unit apartment building (3 floors, brick, attached on both sides). There are a total of 21 radiators, average 20" wide by 24" high in the building.

It has a 285kbtu Burnham gas boiler for heat and separate gas hot water heater.

I was hoping to install a thermostat in the boiler room with 3 remote sensors (one in each apartment). My hope was that the system would be smart enough to allow an adjustable weighted average of the remote sensor's readings to trigger the boiler.

I contacted Honeywell, White Rodgers and Lux and none have such a product.

Ecobee seems to, but it's not a weighted average -- all they said was that it uses an algorithm to determine when the setpoint is reached.

A contractor wants to install a Tekmar -- unit alone costs $1,000.

I thought maybe just install 3 nice thermostats (like the Lux T9000 at $50/each) and wire them in series so that only when all three apts drop to a set temp the boiler kicks on. But I'm concerned that this will cause problems.

What's the best way to handle this?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,

Joseph
 
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Old 11-15-11, 02:58 PM
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I'm confused, are you trying to heat the apartment or the water? And why would you need the water if you have separate hot water heaters? I'll assume its water anyways, because you said nobody else could help you, and if you were talking about air, they would shout zone board.
I was thinking about a zone board, normally used to open and close dampers in the hvac ductwork. each thermostat to a different zone on the board, theoretically they should each be able to turn on the boiler when the t stat falls below a set temperature. but how would you measure temperature of the water and get it back to the t stats, i dont know.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ender2272
I'm confused, are you trying to heat the apartment or the water? And why would you need the water if you have separate hot water heaters? I'll assume its water anyways, because you said nobody else could help you, and if you were talking about air, they would shout zone board.
I was thinking about a zone board, normally used to open and close dampers in the hvac ductwork. each thermostat to a different zone on the board, theoretically they should each be able to turn on the boiler when the t stat falls below a set temperature. but how would you measure temperature of the water and get it back to the t stats, i dont know.
you are on the right track....

OP,

You need to zone the system so that each apartment has it's own control, or if allowed in your area you can put in a stat with multiple remote sensors that averages the temps and set it to control to a set temp. This is not allowed in all areas as some require each tennant to have their own control of the heat/cooling.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ender2272
I'm confused, are you trying to heat the apartment or the water? And why would you need the water if you have separate hot water heaters? I'll assume its water anyways, because you said nobody else could help you, and if you were talking about air, they would shout zone board.
I was thinking about a zone board, normally used to open and close dampers in the hvac ductwork. each thermostat to a different zone on the board, theoretically they should each be able to turn on the boiler when the t stat falls below a set temperature. but how would you measure temperature of the water and get it back to the t stats, i dont know.
Sorry for the confusion

It's a steam heat system.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
you are on the right track....

OP,

You need to zone the system so that each apartment has it's own control, or if allowed in your area you can put in a stat with multiple remote sensors that averages the temps and set it to control to a set temp. This is not allowed in all areas as some require each tennant to have their own control of the heat/cooling.
I'd rather not zone the system. It's a steam system.

I was looking for a thermostat that haS multiple remote sensors and weight averaged the sensor readings. Is there such a thing?

Or a better system?

Thank you
 
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Old 11-15-11, 03:34 PM
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explain what you mean by weighted. If you mean that it takes readings from multiple locations and averages them then, yes those are available
 
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Old 11-15-11, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
explain what you mean by weighted. If you mean that it takes readings from multiple locations and averages them then, yes those are available
Weighting a method of assigning a greater importance to specific readings prior to averaging them. For example, if there are 3 sensors, but one of them is believed to be compromised by bad placement (kitchen, near a window, etc.), we might weight the other 2 sensor's as "worth" double. The averaging would be sensor1+sensor1+sensor2+sensor2+sensor3 divided by 5 to use as our "reading"
 
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Old 11-15-11, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
explain what you mean by weighted. If you mean that it takes readings from multiple locations and averages them then, yes those are available
Can you please tell me what makes/models those are?
 
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Old 11-15-11, 04:26 PM
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averaging (not weighted) remote sensor thermostat would be a honeywell Vision Pro 8000 series or higher stat.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
averaging (not weighted) remote sensor thermostat would be a honeywell Vision Pro 8000 series or higher stat.
I looked at they are wired in series. Do you happen to know where I can find verification that they average?
 
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Old 11-15-11, 05:41 PM
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Indoor Temperature
Sensor uses an averaging
network and does not
include on-board sensor.
PDF FILE

page 17 installer setup options 340

same pdf

page 29

MULTIPLE REMOTE INDOOR SENSORS INSTALLED (OPTIONAL)
If more than one remote indoor sensor is used, the screen
showing Inside temperature reading shows the average of all
the remote indoor sensors. The thermostat internal
temperature sensor is not used.
yes, they are wired in series and it uses a resistance value to determine the remote temp sensor, by wiring in series it averages those values. Sensors must be in square numbers (e.g., 4, 9, 16, and so on).
 
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Old 11-15-11, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
PDF FILE

page 17 installer setup options 340

same pdf

page 29



yes, they are wired in series and it uses a resistance value to determine the remote temp sensor, by wiring in series it averages those values. Sensors must be in square numbers (e.g., 4, 9, 16, and so on).
Thank you so much! For the info and the explanation.

Are you certain the number of sensors need to be a square (4, 9, 16)? I was going to put one on each floor for a total of 3.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 05:55 PM
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Yes, they must be square.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
Yes, they must be square.
Got it - thanks again so much.

Could I ask you for your overall opinion of putting 4 remote sensors (apts 1, 2, 3, 5, for example) with the VisionPro?
 
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Old 11-15-11, 05:59 PM
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I would say that should be fine. I really like the vision pro series of stat from honeywell. I use them all the time. I have the vision Pro IAQ at my home. Its way more stat than you need, but looks the same on the wall.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hvactechfw
I would say that should be fine. I really like the vision pro series of stat from honeywell. I use them all the time. I have the vision Pro IAQ at my home. Its way more stat than you need, but looks the same on the wall.
That's great to hear.

I very much appreciate your help and the help of this forum.

I've gone ahead and ordered the stat and 4 sensors and hopefully the electrician or plumber who installs it doesn't screw it up (BTW, neither could answer the questions posed here).
 
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Old 01-10-12, 02:52 PM
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This might work

I realize this is too late for you because you've already purchased something, but for future reference it looks like these thermostats will do a weighted average:

http://www.partsguy.com/pdf/1F90-371.pdf

(White-Rodgers 90 Series Blue)

Here's the pertinent item description:

"90 Series Single stage models accept  remote indoor sensor, staging models accept up to 3 indoor sensors and offer temperature averaging or weighted average by sensor location and program time."

Jim
 
 

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