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General Electric model 21, 60 yrs old needs J Pump installed, do it myself?

General Electric model 21, 60 yrs old needs J Pump installed, do it myself?


  #41  
Old 12-09-11, 03:52 PM
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If you have a cutter for plastic pipe, it will work fine. A tubing cutter or one for steel pipe will not. If you can make a nice square cut, ( I can't ) you can even use a very fine hacksaw.

You will need an allen wrench, 3/16" I think, for the bypass plug.

For pipe dope, I suggest #2 Permatex. You can get a small tube at nearly any auto supply house. Maybe even at your local hardware store.
 
  #42  
Old 12-09-11, 06:01 PM
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I just ordered the coupling kit and an extra coupler, as you suggested , I bought them on ebay. The local suppliers would not sell them, they said I had to be a tech and or have an account so now I have to wait until Monday for the set to be shipped, probably won't receive them until wed or thurs, damn it is cold, ran out of wood already 53 degrees in the house.
I have the allen wrench for the bypass plug and will get the #2 Permatex dope you suggested, thank you.
I will keep you posted, hopefully you will hear from me on wed, I might be able to do this without any more instructions, you and Guy have been great with all the information you have given to me thus far.
best regards,
Jim
 
  #43  
Old 12-10-11, 11:37 AM
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Some of the supply houses around here will sell to homeowners & others won't. I'd bet if you knew where to go you could find a place in your area which does sell to the homeowner. Don't know where you live but if you were close, I'd bring you the part.
 
  #44  
Old 12-10-11, 11:54 AM
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You are probaby correct, just can't find anyone around here to selll to me. I live in Washington state, Bainbridge Island, you are a great person Grady to have offered to bring one over, however the chances of you living in this area are slim.

I found some more wood today, this a.m. it was 48 degrees in the house making it very difficut to get up to go to work, but I sleep well as I layer my clothing and stay very warm, even harder to take a shower.

When I purchased the house in 2007, poor timing, I was not told there was not any insuation in the walls, to add insult to injury, it is almost like living outside, the comcast cable installer told me about the lack of insulation, oh well, things could be worse and we are just fine.
 
  #45  
Old 12-10-11, 11:59 AM
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Washington state would be abut a 3,000 mile trek. I'm on the east coast about 1/2 hr drive to the Atlantic.
 
  #46  
Old 12-10-11, 01:57 PM
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What are you waiting for? either get on a plane or hop in the car, you'll be here in no time. I'll even buy you dinner.
I lived in Ardsley, a little town in Westchester NY, moved to CA when I was 7. I suppose I'll just have to wait for the part to get here since you are to lazy to drive over for the day :>)
 
  #47  
Old 12-10-11, 02:37 PM
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Scotty, beam me to Bainbridge Island.
 
  #48  
Old 12-14-11, 03:36 PM
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Grady and or Guy,
Captan Kirk here.
the coupler set and extra coupler have finally arrived, I am going to "engage" them, "computer...help!", Wish me luck, if you have any final thoughts please feel free to chime in.
I think I have an idea what to do, I hope so, just ran out of wood last night.
 
  #49  
Old 12-14-11, 04:04 PM
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time to take out the by-pass plug doesn't look too complicated however any input would be appreciated, damn just remembered I don't have the dope, how important is it to have that at this point? Can I hook it up now and remove the lines and apply the dope tomorrow?
 
  #50  
Old 12-14-11, 04:20 PM
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I always dope the threads but I know some who never do. As long as you thread the fittings into the pump good & tight, you should be ok. You seem pretty comfortable with the by-pass plug. Was there a diagram with the pump you purchased?
 
  #51  
Old 12-14-11, 04:27 PM
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How do I remove the half inch pipe connected to the fuel filter and the H pump, I can't seem to get the bolt to turn, not sure if I am going the right thing.
Hellp Mr. Wizzard
 
  #52  
Old 12-14-11, 04:49 PM
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UPdate, Update, Update...I just removed the fuel filter pipe from the H pump and all the copper fittings, I can't pull the H pump out, aparently the coiupler is screwed down, how do I access the screw? I'll probably have another update stating I have figured it out but this step seems to be more difficult.
 
  #53  
Old 12-14-11, 04:53 PM
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update pump and coupler

There is a diagram with the H pump but I cannot remove the pump, the coupler is attached to the end of the H pump and will not pull out, how do I access the area where I have to use an allen wrench to release it?
With regard to the coupler I am not sure what to do with the caps and the separate cap that was included, do I remove the existing caps or leave them on and what do I do with the orange cap? I take it I cut the plastic coupler to the exact size as the existing metal coupler already installed, correct?
 

Last edited by flyercrazy; 12-14-11 at 05:09 PM. Reason: add information
  #54  
Old 12-14-11, 04:56 PM
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Which bolt are you having trouble with?

I'd start by removing the lines below the filter, then hold a pan under the filter & using a 5/8" wrench (with the handle toward the burner) push the wrench away from you.
Loosen the bolt but don't remove it yet.
It may take a twist with a flat screwdriver between the filter head & filter can to pop the can loose. Be careful because the can is probably full of oil. Once the can is loose, either hold it or support it with the pan & remove the bolt.
Set the can aside.
Now remove the line going to the filter.
Hopefully, the filter head isn't as tight to the furnace cabinet as it looks in the pictures. If it is, you are going to have a tough time unless you can push the pipe on the back side of the pump closer to vertical.
 
  #55  
Old 12-14-11, 05:07 PM
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Here's some information on the pump: http://www.suntecpumps.com/Suntecus/...stallation.pdf

Sound like you are going to have to find that set screw we talked about earlier. It should be toward the left end of the fan & take a 1/8" allen wrench to remove. They can be a real pain in the tail.
If all you have are short allen wrenches, you could be out of luck until you can get longer ones.
 
  #56  
Old 12-14-11, 05:27 PM
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Another night without heat, maybe I can make it to the hardward store before they close. I tried to remove the allen wrench, it is at the right side of the fan, there is a little half moon opening to place the allen wrench and uncrew the allen screw. I am off to the hardware store now. I dropped my short allen wrench in the fan, how in the hel am I going to get that out?
 
  #57  
Old 12-14-11, 05:36 PM
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That little half moon is probably an access hole for removing the allen that holds the fan in place. If your coupler has allens they will be farther to the left. Once you get the pump off, you will likely have to remove the motor to get the allen wrench out.
Welcome to my world. That's part of why I use T-handle allen wrenchs whenever possible.
 
  #58  
Old 12-14-11, 05:38 PM
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I was able to remove the half inch pipe by doing exactly what you said to do, I did this about a half hour ago before you posted the reply, but thank you anyway, it was fairly simple to figure out, should have tried prior to posting the question.
I am now going to the hardward store to get a 5" allen wrench set, hopefully it will be long enough. Now I have to figure out how to remove the allen wrench i dropped in the fan unit.
I'll be back in 45 minutes.
 
  #59  
Old 12-14-11, 05:45 PM
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motor

Remove the motor, what kind of pain in the neck is that?:NO NO NO: Love your head banger. I am leaving now to the hardware store, no wonder the tech wanted $1200, but a few hours and some frustration is worth doing it myself as that kind of money takes over a week to make these days.
 
  #60  
Old 12-14-11, 06:02 PM
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Once you get one end of that dear coupling loose, removing the motor should be a walk in the park.
 
  #61  
Old 12-14-11, 06:36 PM
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I have the coupler out now, what now? do I just cut it to the size of the ooriginal and what in the do I do with the caps on the ends of the coupler
 
  #62  
Old 12-14-11, 06:39 PM
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what motor are you talking about? Are you referring to the H pump? If not why would I have to remove the motor.
I am to the stage where all I think I need to do is to size the coupling and start to put things back into place. Am I right or are there more things involved?
 
  #63  
Old 12-14-11, 06:43 PM
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Let's back up & regroup.

Do you have the pump off?
Were you able to retrieve your dropped allen wrench?
 
  #64  
Old 12-14-11, 06:45 PM
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Just to confirm, I have removed the H pump, I have removed the coupler. I would think my next step would be to cut the coiupler and install it. do these new couplers just slide into place without the need for allen bolts?
You will notice with these new couplers they have caps on the ends, can you school me on this please? I am not sure how the coupler attaches since it is so different than the original so I need some input with regard to that.
Thanks for all your help Grady, I plan on finishing this thing tonight if you are ok with hanging in there with me for a bit longer. One I get the coupler thing figured out I can do the rest.
I did drop a short allen wrench in the fan area but when I spin the fan it doesn't seem to be an issue.
 
  #65  
Old 12-14-11, 06:53 PM
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just checked in,you two are doing great,slow down and take a breath though ,can barely keep up.
 
  #66  
Old 12-14-11, 06:58 PM
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Yes, I took the pump off and retrieved the allen wrench by removing the motor, piece of cake as you said.
Now what?
My real concern now is with the couplers and what to do with the ends. We are just about finished.
 
  #67  
Old 12-14-11, 07:01 PM
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Slow down, good advise

Thanks Guy,
That is good advise, I am in such a hurry to get this monkey off my back. the rest looks very easy, as you can see I am not sure about what to do with the end of the couplers, once it is installed I think I can take it from here, just a matter of rebuilding. I am not too sure about whether or not I have to prime the furnace in order to get it started or just start it as usual.
 
  #68  
Old 12-14-11, 07:07 PM
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A couple questions before we get into cutting the coupling:

Did the old coupling have allen set screws?
Is the shaft on the new pump the same as the old?
 
  #69  
Old 12-14-11, 07:13 PM
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I am not sure if I understand your question, as you know there were two allen screws I had to loosen to remove the coupling to get it out.
The new coupling is plastic doesn't look anything like the old. I thnk you sent the link for the coupling I purchased, you can scroll down and find the link in out of our chat sessions. If not I can take a photo and upload to photobucket.
 
  #70  
Old 12-14-11, 07:19 PM
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By the way, the old coupling looks fine, no cracks, bulging, looks like it would work fine.
 
  #71  
Old 12-14-11, 07:23 PM
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late back east

I know it is late back east, thanks for hanging in with me. If you need to get to bed I get home tomorrow at 1:00 pst, if that works better for you please let me know.
 
  #72  
Old 12-14-11, 07:31 PM
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late back east

I didn't answer your question about the shaft on the new pump, yes it is the same as the old.

Have you guys gone to bed? I think I am going to use the old coupling, if I run into problems down the road I will replace it now that I know what I am doing, sort of.
 
  #73  
Old 12-14-11, 07:41 PM
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I know exactly what coupling you have. I'd start by cutting the new the same length as the old. The plastic one has 3 end caps. They are grey, orange, & green. You will need the grey & orange ones. The grey goes on the motor end & the orange on the pump end.

Cut the coupling & install the ends.
Once the ends are on stand the coupling upright on a sturdy surface & press down to seat the ends.
You will probably need a pair of long nosed pliers to hold the orange end while getting the grey end to slip onto the motor shaft. It is easiest to put slight pressure on the coupling while turning the fan. When the shaft flat & the coupling flat align, the coupling will slip on.
Now hold the pump shaft against the coupling & turn the fan again to align the pump shaft flat & the coupling flat.
 
  #74  
Old 12-14-11, 07:56 PM
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OK, sounds easy. I have installed the male adapters on the new pump to not too much more to do. If you want to go to bed please answer one more question for me. When itis time to turn the furnace on do I need to prime it, some of the gas leaked out of the new pump when I was installing the old adapters.
thanks so much for yoru help, could not have done this without your help.
Keep your fingers crossed for me, hopefully this will cure the beast.
 
  #75  
Old 12-14-11, 08:13 PM
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You should not need to prime the pump but what may happen, particularly if the filter is still full, is the burner will fire then loose flame. This is due to there being air in the fuel system. If the reset trips, give it a couple of minutes then reset. If after no more than two resets the burner does not fire, don't do anything else. I'll check back with you around 5:00PM Eastern tomorrow. In any case post what happens & I'll read before I go to work.
 
  #76  
Old 12-14-11, 08:13 PM
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you guys get that thing going yet? can't keep up n/g with computers.
 
  #77  
Old 12-14-11, 09:46 PM
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Well, I finally have everything back in place, I turned the power on, checked the thermostat, pushed the little red button anticipating warmth, nice warm air flowing from room to room but nothing, didn't even fire up for a moment, just a little buzzing from the trip box. I attempted it a couple of times to no avail so I will await your reply at around 5 pm.

That furnace is so awkward to work on, hardly any room to get a screw driver or wrench into certain areas so it took me forever just to tighten a couple of bolts.

Thanks for all your help, sorry to keep you up so late.

I look forward to hearing back from you tomorrow.

Jim
 
  #78  
Old 12-14-11, 09:49 PM
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do you have that stack relay? might be the little button on the motor trip out to from having a bound pump. try motor reset. If it never tried to turn over don't worry about hitting reset of stack relay more then twice.
 

Last edited by guyold; 12-14-11 at 10:23 PM.
  #79  
Old 12-15-11, 03:19 AM
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Thanks Guy. I had to get some shut eye & will be headed off to work in a few minutes.

Jim,
Look for a small button on the motor (usually red). It could be on the end or up near the mounting flange. If found try to push it in.
If you disconnected any wiring when you pulled the motor, double check your connections.
Try turning the fan by hand. It should turn freely.
 
  #80  
Old 12-15-11, 02:02 PM
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The fan is not turning, is the coupling too tight or have I screwed the bolts on the H pump too tightly? Of course since the fan is not turning we still have a broken furnace.

I did push the buton on the motor, it made a different sound than it did last night so that was one of the problems. I did notice the coupling was a 1/16 of an inch longer than the original. I have to take that thing apart again, if I have to I have to but the area is so tight it takes hours to tighten everything.
 
 

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