No voltage to start spark ignitor on day & night furnace by carrier
#1
12-09-11, 06:25 PM
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No voltage to start spark ignitor on day & night furnace by carrier
Hi,
Day & Night by Carrier
Product: 395BAW048080ABJA
Model: 395BAW048080
Date of mgf: 1987
My Day & Night by Carrier is constantly blowing cold air even when the thermostat is on Off or Auto. When trying to turn the heat on, the blower just constantly blows cold air. I've tested the voltage on the board and all seems to be working fine. PR1 and PR2 along with L1 and L2 is getting 124v and 123.6v respectively, and HI and LO along with SEC1 and SEC2 is getting 36v and 28.5v respectively. When I test COM to SEC1 I get 28v, but I test COM to SEC2 I only get .42v. On W, R and G is getting .5v, same goes for the spark igniter .1v. On 1 and 3 on top of White Rogers is getting .37v. I have already switch out the control board (HH84AA009) thinking it maybe bad due to visual char capacitor with a brand new ICM275 Fan Control Center board which suppose to be compatible. What do you think is the problem?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Steve
Day & Night by Carrier
Product: 395BAW048080ABJA
Model: 395BAW048080
Date of mgf: 1987
My Day & Night by Carrier is constantly blowing cold air even when the thermostat is on Off or Auto. When trying to turn the heat on, the blower just constantly blows cold air. I've tested the voltage on the board and all seems to be working fine. PR1 and PR2 along with L1 and L2 is getting 124v and 123.6v respectively, and HI and LO along with SEC1 and SEC2 is getting 36v and 28.5v respectively. When I test COM to SEC1 I get 28v, but I test COM to SEC2 I only get .42v. On W, R and G is getting .5v, same goes for the spark igniter .1v. On 1 and 3 on top of White Rogers is getting .37v. I have already switch out the control board (HH84AA009) thinking it maybe bad due to visual char capacitor with a brand new ICM275 Fan Control Center board which suppose to be compatible. What do you think is the problem?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Steve
#2
12-09-11, 08:20 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Sorry, I'm not understanding the tests you are doing.
Test between R and C with the power on. I would presume you get about zero volts.
The usual reason for the fan to run constantly on this furnace is that the power to the R terminal is interrupted by one of the switches or connections before that terminal.
What voltage do you get between Sec1 and Sec2? Should be about 24 VAC.
Test between R and C with the power on. I would presume you get about zero volts.
The usual reason for the fan to run constantly on this furnace is that the power to the R terminal is interrupted by one of the switches or connections before that terminal.
What voltage do you get between Sec1 and Sec2? Should be about 24 VAC.
#4
12-14-11, 01:20 PM
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The problem was a bad high limit switch. I got that replace with a brand new one, but now the burner constantly go out after 2 to 3 seconds. It comes back on and cycle off and on for 3 to 4 time and then the furnace shut off. Then the blower kicks in for about 1 to 2 minutes and then it starts the whole cycle again.
Do you know what is cause the burner to shut off? Back in March I've replace the spark ignitor and the pilot light with an used one that was bought from eBay because the were bad.
thank you in advance for your advice.
Steve
Do you know what is cause the burner to shut off? Back in March I've replace the spark ignitor and the pilot light with an used one that was bought from eBay because the were bad.
thank you in advance for your advice.
Steve
#5
12-14-11, 01:57 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
As I understand it, the main burner is turning on and off repeatedly but the pilot burner stays lit.
If that's the case, you need to remove and clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Remove the screws holding the pilot burner in place. Carefully bend the pilot tubing to bring the pilot burner out where you can work on it. Use a 7/16" open end wrench to loosen the brass nut at the bottom of the pilot switch holding the pilot tubing in place.
Pull the pilot tubing from the pilot burner. You should be able to shake the pilot tubing out of the pilot burner. Clean the pilot orifice with the wire from a wire brush. Clean the rest of the pilot burner with a wire brush.
Reinstall the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Cleaning the pilot burner is ordinary maintenance that should be done once per year.
If that's the case, you need to remove and clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Remove the screws holding the pilot burner in place. Carefully bend the pilot tubing to bring the pilot burner out where you can work on it. Use a 7/16" open end wrench to loosen the brass nut at the bottom of the pilot switch holding the pilot tubing in place.
Pull the pilot tubing from the pilot burner. You should be able to shake the pilot tubing out of the pilot burner. Clean the pilot orifice with the wire from a wire brush. Clean the rest of the pilot burner with a wire brush.
Reinstall the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Cleaning the pilot burner is ordinary maintenance that should be done once per year.
#6
12-26-12, 08:26 PM
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Burner turns off when the fan kicks in.
Hi SeattlePoineer,
Sorry for not responding to your post earlier. I kind of giving up until recently when it got very cold here. I end up replacing the 3-wire pilot with a new one and a used spark ignitor that I bought online. Now the burner goes off when the blower kicks in, it cycles like that constantly. I had a technician came out for a service inspection, and he said that I might have a defective control board. Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you in advance.
Steve
Sorry for not responding to your post earlier. I kind of giving up until recently when it got very cold here. I end up replacing the 3-wire pilot with a new one and a used spark ignitor that I bought online. Now the burner goes off when the blower kicks in, it cycles like that constantly. I had a technician came out for a service inspection, and he said that I might have a defective control board. Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you in advance.
Steve
#7
12-27-12, 01:42 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
>
Your comments are persistantly vague, and you don't respond to the specific questions you are asked to clear up your ambiguous comments.
The comment above is vague.
Start by describing what happens when the thermostat calls for heat and describe in sequence and in detail what happens. The sequence and the detail provided are the keys to being of help to you.
Your comments are persistantly vague, and you don't respond to the specific questions you are asked to clear up your ambiguous comments.
The comment above is vague.
Start by describing what happens when the thermostat calls for heat and describe in sequence and in detail what happens. The sequence and the detail provided are the keys to being of help to you.
#8
12-30-12, 01:33 PM
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Burner turns off when the fan kicks in.
Hi SeattlePioneer,
Sorry for being vague, I hope I can explain a little better this time. Also, I’ve tried to upload the video of the event but couldn’t.
Here is the event:
1. Thermostat kicks in.
2. After about 45 second of clicking from the Spark Ignitor before the Pilot lights up.
3. After 2 minutes 21 seconds and couple of clicks from the Spark Ignitor the fire started.
4. After 9 seconds the flames turn off.
5. After 2 seconds the flame turns on again.
6. After 9 seconds the flames turn off again.
7. After 7 seconds the flame turns on again.
8. After 30 seconds and some clicking in between the flames turn off again.
9. After 1 second the flame turn on again.
10. After 9 seconds the flames turn off again.
11. After 5 seconds the flame turns on again.
12. After 12 seconds the flames turn off again.
13. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
14. After 33 seconds and some clicking in between the flames turn off again.
15. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
16. After 5 seconds the flames turn off again.
17. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
18. After 13 seconds the flames turn off again.
19. After 5 seconds the flame turns on again.
20. After 15 seconds the flames turn off again.
21. After 5 seconds the flame turns on again.
22. After 30 seconds with flames going off and on until the flames turn off again.
23. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
24. After 20 seconds the flames turn off again.
25. After 17 seconds the flame turns on again.
26. After 12 seconds the flames turn off again.
27. After 2 seconds the flame turns on again.
28. After 2 seconds the flames turn off again.
29. After 3 seconds the fan turns on.
30. After 44 seconds the Spark Ignitor starts clicking.
31. After 17 seconds the pilot lit.
32. And the cycle continues.
Thank you in advance.
Steve
Sorry for being vague, I hope I can explain a little better this time. Also, I’ve tried to upload the video of the event but couldn’t.
Here is the event:
1. Thermostat kicks in.
2. After about 45 second of clicking from the Spark Ignitor before the Pilot lights up.
3. After 2 minutes 21 seconds and couple of clicks from the Spark Ignitor the fire started.
4. After 9 seconds the flames turn off.
5. After 2 seconds the flame turns on again.
6. After 9 seconds the flames turn off again.
7. After 7 seconds the flame turns on again.
8. After 30 seconds and some clicking in between the flames turn off again.
9. After 1 second the flame turn on again.
10. After 9 seconds the flames turn off again.
11. After 5 seconds the flame turns on again.
12. After 12 seconds the flames turn off again.
13. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
14. After 33 seconds and some clicking in between the flames turn off again.
15. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
16. After 5 seconds the flames turn off again.
17. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
18. After 13 seconds the flames turn off again.
19. After 5 seconds the flame turns on again.
20. After 15 seconds the flames turn off again.
21. After 5 seconds the flame turns on again.
22. After 30 seconds with flames going off and on until the flames turn off again.
23. After 4 seconds the flame turns on again.
24. After 20 seconds the flames turn off again.
25. After 17 seconds the flame turns on again.
26. After 12 seconds the flames turn off again.
27. After 2 seconds the flame turns on again.
28. After 2 seconds the flames turn off again.
29. After 3 seconds the fan turns on.
30. After 44 seconds the Spark Ignitor starts clicking.
31. After 17 seconds the pilot lit.
32. And the cycle continues.
Thank you in advance.
Steve
Last edited by irenesteven; 12-30-12 at 04:01 PM.
#9
12-30-12, 01:40 PM
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#10
12-30-12, 02:22 PM
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Burner turns off when the fan kicks in.
Hi PJmax,
Thank you for your responds. I have already change with a new control board. Could it be I have a defective board or something else?
Thank you again.
Steve
Thank you for your responds. I have already change with a new control board. Could it be I have a defective board or something else?
Thank you again.
Steve
#11
12-30-12, 03:07 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Well, first of all it shouldn't take 45 seconds of sparking to light the pilot burner. That suggests that the pilot burner is dirty and needs to be cleaned.
Secondly, about the only thing that will allow the main burner to switch on and off repeatedly as described with a Carrier three wire pilot burner is a dirty pilot burner. Pretty much any other problem will cause the pilot to shut off and go through the whole ignition cycle again.
One the pilot is lit, the pilot burner needs to heat up a bimetal temperature sensor on the pilot burner. When that gets hot enough, it switches on the main burner gas. If the pilot burner is dirty, that temperature sensor can cool off a bit which shuts off the main burner until the pilot burner causes it to warm up again, which turns on the main burner.
You need to clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Remove the two screws that hold the pilot burner to the furnace chassis.
Use a wrench to loosen the brass nut that holds the pilot tubing into the pilot burner. Loosen the nut completely so that it slides along the pilot tubing.
That allows you to pull the pilot tubing out. Remove the orifice which was at the end of the pilot tubing in the pilot burner. Often it will fall out into your hand.
Clean the hole in the pilot orifice with a wire from a wire brush. Use a wire brush and some puffs of your breath to clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Reassemble and you should be back in business.
This is routine maintennace which should be done annually to insure reliable operation of the furnace
Secondly, about the only thing that will allow the main burner to switch on and off repeatedly as described with a Carrier three wire pilot burner is a dirty pilot burner. Pretty much any other problem will cause the pilot to shut off and go through the whole ignition cycle again.
One the pilot is lit, the pilot burner needs to heat up a bimetal temperature sensor on the pilot burner. When that gets hot enough, it switches on the main burner gas. If the pilot burner is dirty, that temperature sensor can cool off a bit which shuts off the main burner until the pilot burner causes it to warm up again, which turns on the main burner.
You need to clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Remove the two screws that hold the pilot burner to the furnace chassis.
Use a wrench to loosen the brass nut that holds the pilot tubing into the pilot burner. Loosen the nut completely so that it slides along the pilot tubing.
That allows you to pull the pilot tubing out. Remove the orifice which was at the end of the pilot tubing in the pilot burner. Often it will fall out into your hand.
Clean the hole in the pilot orifice with a wire from a wire brush. Use a wire brush and some puffs of your breath to clean the pilot burner and pilot orifice.
Reassemble and you should be back in business.
This is routine maintennace which should be done annually to insure reliable operation of the furnace
#12
12-30-12, 03:34 PM
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Burner turns off when the fan kicks in.
Hi SeattlePioneer,
The Pilot burner has been replaced with a brand new Pilot burner and a new orifice, but I did accidentally break the sensor piece (where the 3-wire connects) off while putting it on. I use a duct tape and twisty tie to tie it back together. But before I broke the unit the same problem happen when I put the new unit in. The reason I took the new unit out was to see if the old unit produce the same problem. Should I get another Pilot burner?
Thank you,
Steve
The Pilot burner has been replaced with a brand new Pilot burner and a new orifice, but I did accidentally break the sensor piece (where the 3-wire connects) off while putting it on. I use a duct tape and twisty tie to tie it back together. But before I broke the unit the same problem happen when I put the new unit in. The reason I took the new unit out was to see if the old unit produce the same problem. Should I get another Pilot burner?
Thank you,
Steve
Last edited by irenesteven; 12-30-12 at 04:39 PM.
#13
12-31-12, 01:24 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Describe the size and appearance of the pilot flame.
The flame should be large enough tom run up the side of the pilot burner where the bi metal heat sensor is.
You might not have enough gas to operate the pilot light properly. If it's too small, it wont heat up the bimetal heat sensor enough to keepm the main burners switched on.
Us a 50% wate and dishwashing detergent solution and a paintbrush or spray bottle to check for gas leaks to the pilot tubing at the electric gas valve and at the pilot burner where the brass fitting holds the pilot tubing to the pilot burner.
Check to verify that all the gas valves are turned fully on, including the knob on the electric gas valve.
Do you have other gas appliances? If so, what are they.
Do you have propane or natural gas?
The flame should be large enough tom run up the side of the pilot burner where the bi metal heat sensor is.
You might not have enough gas to operate the pilot light properly. If it's too small, it wont heat up the bimetal heat sensor enough to keepm the main burners switched on.
Us a 50% wate and dishwashing detergent solution and a paintbrush or spray bottle to check for gas leaks to the pilot tubing at the electric gas valve and at the pilot burner where the brass fitting holds the pilot tubing to the pilot burner.
Check to verify that all the gas valves are turned fully on, including the knob on the electric gas valve.
Do you have other gas appliances? If so, what are they.
Do you have propane or natural gas?
#14
01-01-13, 01:52 PM
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Burner turns off when the fan kicks in.
Hi SeattlePioneer,
Happy New Year! I hope you had a nice New Year eve. I answer your question below and I have attached couple of picture on the flame.
Describe the size and appearance of the pilot flame.
The flame is about 2” tall and the flame color is blue.
The flame should be large enough tom run up the side of the pilot burner where the bi metal heat sensor is.
The flame just pass the burner about 1/8” high.
You might not have enough gas to operate the pilot light properly. If it's too small, it wont heat up the bimetal heat sensor enough to keepm the main burners switched on.
Us a 50% wate and dishwashing detergent solution and a paintbrush or spray bottle to check for gas leaks to the pilot tubing at the electric gas valve and at the pilot burner where the brass fitting holds the pilot tubing to the pilot burner.
I checked it with a spray bottle and didn’t find any gas leaks.
Check to verify that all the gas valves are turned fully on, including the knob on the electric gas valve.
All gas valves are turn fully on.
Do you have other gas appliances? If so, what are they.
I have gas stovetop oven and gas starting fireplace.
Do you have propane or natural gas?
I use natural gas.
Thank you,
Steve
Happy New Year! I hope you had a nice New Year eve. I answer your question below and I have attached couple of picture on the flame.
Describe the size and appearance of the pilot flame.
The flame is about 2” tall and the flame color is blue.
The flame should be large enough tom run up the side of the pilot burner where the bi metal heat sensor is.
The flame just pass the burner about 1/8” high.
You might not have enough gas to operate the pilot light properly. If it's too small, it wont heat up the bimetal heat sensor enough to keepm the main burners switched on.
Us a 50% wate and dishwashing detergent solution and a paintbrush or spray bottle to check for gas leaks to the pilot tubing at the electric gas valve and at the pilot burner where the brass fitting holds the pilot tubing to the pilot burner.
I checked it with a spray bottle and didn’t find any gas leaks.
Check to verify that all the gas valves are turned fully on, including the knob on the electric gas valve.
All gas valves are turn fully on.
Do you have other gas appliances? If so, what are they.
I have gas stovetop oven and gas starting fireplace.
Do you have propane or natural gas?
I use natural gas.
Thank you,
Steve
#15
01-02-13, 01:35 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
While it's hard to tell from the pictures, it looks like the pilot burner is as big as it ought to be.
I still maintain that it has to be a pilot burner issue. About the only thing that will permit the main burners to turn on and off repeatedly without the pilot burner shutting off and starting the ignition cycle again is that the bimetal pilot switch isn't being kept hot enough to keep the main burners turned on reliably.
But I'm out of ideas on things to check.
Sorry.
Please post any solution you find to this problem. I'd be interested to know what's going on.
Perhaps some of the other techs posting here can show how much better thwey are than I am by posting a solution to this problem!
I still maintain that it has to be a pilot burner issue. About the only thing that will permit the main burners to turn on and off repeatedly without the pilot burner shutting off and starting the ignition cycle again is that the bimetal pilot switch isn't being kept hot enough to keep the main burners turned on reliably.
But I'm out of ideas on things to check.
Sorry.
Please post any solution you find to this problem. I'd be interested to know what's going on.
Perhaps some of the other techs posting here can show how much better thwey are than I am by posting a solution to this problem!
#16
01-02-13, 07:07 PM
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Hi SeattlePioneer,
Thank you for your suggestion. I will wait couple of days for other experts to respond before I purchase another pilot burner.
Steve
Thank you for your suggestion. I will wait couple of days for other experts to respond before I purchase another pilot burner.
Steve
#17
01-19-13, 09:08 PM
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It is fixed!
Hi SeattlePioneer,
I want to let future viewer know that you are right about the pilot burner. Instead of spending more money for another pilot burner, I follow your advice and clean my old pilot burner. After cleaning it the fire stay lit while the fan kicks in. My furnace is working normal again.
Thank you very much. You are invaluable to this forum.
Steve
I want to let future viewer know that you are right about the pilot burner. Instead of spending more money for another pilot burner, I follow your advice and clean my old pilot burner. After cleaning it the fire stay lit while the fan kicks in. My furnace is working normal again.
Thank you very much. You are invaluable to this forum.
Steve
