Olsen furnace won't light


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Old 12-13-11, 10:49 AM
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Olsen furnace won't light

Mod. #HMS2 105T ...This Youtube video shows exactly what my furnace is doing. Tries to light and shuts down right away. I just finished replacing the flame sensor. It didn't help. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Here's the link for the video:
Furnace Flame sensor issue - YouTube
 
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Old 12-13-11, 12:31 PM
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draft inducer fan is running fine. When I put a screwdriver against the gas valve and listen, I can hear the valve open and quickly close.
 
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Old 12-13-11, 12:41 PM
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Take the cover off the burner compartment of the furnace.

Post in detail the entire sequence of events you observe when you turn the thermostat up to call for heat.
 
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Old 12-13-11, 01:01 PM
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I shut the furnace off and turned up t-stat. I went down cellar, turned furnace on. Draft inducer starts immediately, igniter sparks, and pilot lights and immediately goes out. I can hear the gas valve open and close quickly.
 
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Old 12-13-11, 01:13 PM
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I just tested the pressure switch. I'm getting 24 volts w/furnace running.
 
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Old 12-13-11, 02:24 PM
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It could be a plugged pilot orifice.

Check the flame sensor current if you have a multi-meter which measures microamps.
 
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Old 12-13-11, 02:39 PM
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My multi tester does not do microamps. I don't suspect a plugged oriface as the pilot lights and has a strong flame, but the gas valve quickly shuts. Would a plugged oriface shut the gas valve as I've described?
 
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Old 12-13-11, 03:04 PM
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A plugged orifice results in a weak pilot flame and erratic operation.

Measuring the current can help you determine if there's a problem with the flame sensor/ground/wire or the ignition module itself (or control board if it's built in).
 
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Old 12-13-11, 03:16 PM
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When you say microamps, do you mean milliamps? Reason I ask is I will by one that measures milliamps. Nothing else jumps out at you? Faulty gas valve possibly?
 
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Old 12-13-11, 04:10 PM
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Measure the voltage between the pilot valve and main valve terminals (gas valve) while the pilot cycles.

Chances are that the valve is good.

When you say microamps, do you mean milliamps? Reason I ask is I will by one that measures milliamps. Nothing else jumps out at you? Faulty gas valve possibly?
Microamp as in millionth of an amp.

If your furnace has an ignition module (not built into the board), check for continuity between the flame sensor and the sensor connection at the control.

Also check for continuity between the pilot burner the furnace cabinet. Ensure that the furnace is properly grounded.

See: Flame Rectification
 
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Old 12-13-11, 06:34 PM
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What is the make and model of the ignition control module?
 
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Old 12-14-11, 06:09 AM
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Honeywell S8600H is the ignition control module. A friend is letting me borrow his multimeter that read milliamps. I just need some info on what voltages I'm looking for, and how to test them.
 
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Old 12-14-11, 07:07 AM
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The S86XX ignition control is my favorite way ever to light a gas burner. Odd are that the pilot light and main burner gas are shutting off because the power to the ignition module is being interrupted and shut off.

I take it the inducer motor fan is staying on even when the burner shuts off?

If so, I'd check to see if the power to the module is being shut off, and then checking to see if the pressure switch is opening and shutting off that power.

You are looking for about 24 VAC to power the module and that's what would be switched on and off at the pressure switch.

Don't worry about the micro amps -- that's unlikely to be the issue.
 
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Old 12-14-11, 07:36 AM
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The inducer fan motor does stay running. I'm not sure which terminals to check for power. Is it one lead to grnd and the other to a certain terminal? How do I check to see that the ignition module is properly powered?
 
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Old 12-14-11, 08:47 AM
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When 24 VAC is applied across the two 24 V terminals on the control module, the spark and pilot gas should turn on, then the pilot burner should light and then the main burner gas turn on and stay on until those terminals are de energized.
 
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Old 12-14-11, 10:21 AM
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I've uploaded a pic of my furnace. Here's the link:
Pictures by steve22l - Photobucket

I'm not sure which terminals to check for power to the module. The pic shows the clusterf**k of wires and relay and transformer and the module.
 
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Old 12-14-11, 11:38 AM
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Check the gray plastic ignition control module to the right and above the gas valve. You should find the 24 VAC terminals on that box.
 

Last edited by SeattlePioneer; 12-14-11 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 12-14-11, 12:19 PM
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checked the terminal marked 24V on the module. I'm getting 24V. That terminal (yellow wire) leads to the pressure switch. I'm getting 24V in and out of the pressure switch.
 
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Old 12-14-11, 12:52 PM
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Replace the ignition module.


When there is power to the module, the spark and pilot gas should turn on and stay on. Since that's not happening, you have a bad ignition control module.
 
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Old 12-14-11, 01:28 PM
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Oh man, you're the best!! I will pick one up in the morning. Plumbing supply house has 3 on hand.
I will post the results after I install the new one.
Thanks again!
 
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Old 12-15-11, 09:38 AM
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well, I swapped out the ignition module. The replacement is Honeywell S8618U which replaces the Honeywell S8600H 1006. I was very careful to not mix up wires, doing them one at a time. Unfortunately, it didn't help. I get no spark whatsoever now.
Any ideas?
 
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Old 12-15-11, 11:35 AM
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>



Go back and check this again. If you have voltage to the module, the gas to the pilot burner should switch on and the spark should turn on.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 12:27 PM
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I checked the voltage again.....getting 26V from module, thru pressure switch thru flame rollout sensor to relay.

One thing I read in the booklet that came w/new module. Says "Check ground circuit from GND (BURNER) terminal on ignition control module to the pilot burner." There is no GRD on the pilot burner, just on the gas valve (pic #6 in photos). This is the same wiring as the previous module.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 12:37 PM
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The ground connection on the module should be connected to the sheet metal of the furnace.

To verify that the pilot burner has lit, an AC voltage is applied to the spark electrode. When the pilot burner lights a small amount of that AC voltage is rectified by passing through the flame to chassis ground, and then flows back to the ignition module through the ground connection. The current flow is detected by the module at the ground connection to verify that the pilot is lit.


Describe in detail how you have been measuring the 26 volts. That you are getting 26 volts implies that you are measuring correctly, but let's double check that.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 12:46 PM
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from multimeter....black probe to sheet metal....red probe to 24V terminal.

Should I remove the GRD wire from gas valve and reattach to sheet metal? There are 2 terminals on the gas valve for GRD. Should I add to second GRD to sheet metal from gas valve GRD?
One of the pics show the gas valve GRD.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 01:47 PM
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>

Well, that should work.

But...


Try connecting your black probe to the 24 volt terminal on the ignition module and trying again.

Try doing an ohms check for continuity between the 24V ground terminal and the furnace sheet metal. It ought to show zero ohms or thereabouts.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 02:10 PM
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Zero ohms on the continuity check
Still getting 26V when reversing the leads of the multimeter.
This is getting interesting, to say the least.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 02:23 PM
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Is the furnace behaving the same way it did with the old module?

If yes, check the flame sensor wire for continuity (from the rod to the connection at the module) and the ground. (continuity between ground connection at module and pilot burner)

Changing parts should always be a last resort.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 03:14 PM
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The furnace is not behaving the same. The old module was at least producing spark and the pilot would briefly light and then shut down. I could hear the gas valve open and close. Now with the new module, I get nothing at all.

I get 0 ohms when checking continuity between GRD at module and pilot burner bracket, not the rod itself. It's isolated with ceramic. I get no reading when checking continuity between ignition cable(burner end) and module GRD. Ignition cable itself, when disconnected entirely, reads 0 ohms.

Shouldn't there be some resistance on the ignition cable? I got 0 ohms yesterday also, when the old module was installed. But it at least produced spark.

Could the relay have anything to do with it?
 
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Old 12-15-11, 03:23 PM
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What is the complete model number of the ignition module?
 
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Old 12-15-11, 03:42 PM
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Honeywell Universal Intermittent Pilot Gas Ignition Control
Mod. # S8610U3009
Ser. # 1142J04089
 
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Old 12-15-11, 05:18 PM
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The operating manual for the ignition control is at:

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell...ll/69_1955.pdf


On page twelve is a circuit diagram that illustrates how the ignition control can be wired. There are a wide variety of ways it can be set up, this is just one of them.

It shows the 24 V Grnd connection as an unswitched electrical connection to the low voltage transformer, which is what you have, presumably.

It shows the 24 V connection to other other side of the transformer, which is also what you presumably have.

It shows the ignition control sequence being turned on by being switched on by the thermostat and energizing the TH-W connection, and that's presumably why the furnace isn't starting.

In short, my earlier advice wasn't correct. The 24 V Gnd and 24 V connections can be left energized all the time without starting the ignition sequence.

The ignition sequence is started when the TH-W terminal is energized with 24 VAC.

Check that and see what you have connected to the TH-W terminal.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 05:38 PM
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the TH-W is not being used, as it was with the old module.

I will check out the link, tho.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 06:18 PM
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There are differences between the S8600H and S8610U Modules.

Here is the manual that includes operation of the 8600H module, the old module from your furnace:

http://cyb-tec.com/S8600_2010.pdf


Your furnace is wired up as illustrated on Figure 3, Page 5. That was my recollection as well ---- when the 24 V terminal is energized, the ignition process begins.

It's somewhat different on the S8610U module, as described earlier.

On the S8610U module, energizing the 24 V terminal no longer causes the ignition sequence to start.

See if you understand what I'm describing and ask any questions needed to clarify that.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 06:55 PM
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how would I go about using TH-W terminal? There's 2 wires to the t-stat which are both hooked up to the 24V transformer now.
Would I remove 1 wire from the transformer and put it on the TH-W terminal?

I will go over the links you provided. I want to thank you also, for the time you're putting in on this. It is greatly appreciated!!
 
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Old 12-15-11, 07:18 PM
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Move the wire connected to 24V to TH-W.

I think the unswitched 24V terminal is for damper operation.
 
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Old 12-15-11, 07:19 PM
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Here's what I'm seeing from the manual for the new module---

S8610U:

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell...ll/69_1955.pdf

Table 5 on page 3 describes how to change the wiring when converting from an older module.

In particular, the last column describes how to make those changes for the S8600H module--- the old module.

>


Determine whether any of these exceptions surrounding a vent damper apply. If not, try just plugging the wire from the olf 24V terminal to the TH-W connection on the new module.
 
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Old 12-16-11, 08:22 AM
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Success!!

Moving the wire from 24V to TH-W did the trick. Nice spark and pilot and main burners fired right up. Everything seems to be running normal again.

Thanks again for all your help and the time you put in. It is very much appreciated!

Merry Christmas!!
 
 

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