new janitrol furnace ......junk???

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  #1  
Old 01-15-01, 02:24 PM
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Angry

My janitrol furnace is only 2 years old, and to say the least, I am not very happy with it. Now, it seems, the top of the furnace gets very hot (can't keep mt hand on it). I am thinking (and it appears) the venter blower is not sucking the flames down the heat exchanger as well as it should. I JUST had the furnace cleaned & tuned up a few weeks ago, and it started getting hot on top within a week. Also, the furnace seems to run constantly. Any suggestions would help!

Vinnie in Ohio
 
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  #2  
Old 01-15-01, 02:50 PM
PDF
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Don't play games

Call service company back with your concerns.At the same time ask them for a telephone for the Janitrol field rep.You want to resolve the problem now.IF YOU SPEND 25 thousand on a vehicle and were unhappy how far would you go to resolve the problems?PDF
 
  #3  
Old 01-16-01, 04:25 PM
fjrachel
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Agree with PDF. Janitrol is not junk, just not fancy or expensive. Your service person missed something.
 
  #4  
Old 01-18-01, 09:15 PM
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running hot

what other problems have you had with janitrol? Alot of furnaces get installed with insufficient duct work or a blocked coil check temperature rise across furnace and compare with range listed on nameplate if you are above range then you have an airflow problem or it could be improperly vented check manual or get qualified service tech
 
  #5  
Old 01-18-01, 09:45 PM
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A possible cause of the problem you describe may be overfiring of the furnace. The manifold gas pressure for NATURAL GAS should be 3.5" water column. If the firing rate is too high, it can over stress the heat exchanger from excessive expansion/contraction causing premature exchanger failure. Many techs incorrectly believe that manfold pressure is set at the factory, but this is ballpark only, as it is dependent on incoming line pressure & regulator setting.
 
  #6  
Old 01-19-01, 05:59 AM
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I think we're getting somewhere, but I would appreciate more advice. I should have noted it is a propane furnace, and I have cleaned the coil out on two occasions. Also, I have put on a new (clear) drainage tube, so I can see that the unit is draining properly. I should note, however, that there seems to be a good amount of black "soot" mixed in with the water in drainage tube, and when I cleaned the coil, there was ALOT of this soot inside the coil. But I cleaned the coil 2 weeks ago, can it clog up that fast? And if it is clooged up, why so fast? Also, I have had 5 (yes, 5) "qualified" sevice men to try to fix this problem and have had little results. Fed up with dishing out money, will work on it myself with a little help form the internet! So, your help is sincerely appreciated, as I think we are getting close.
P.S> How can I know if the venter blower is set at the correct speed? And, can my venting pipe system be too long for proper ventalation?
 
  #7  
Old 01-19-01, 11:59 AM
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With patience you may find the proble yourself, good luck. The combustion ventor motors are usually single speed motors. This can be confirmed by checking to see if just two wires are routed to it. If you find 4 wires routed to the motor, two will be for power to the motor and two to a internally mounted centrifugal switch which is sometimes used to "prove" combustion blower operation before ignition is allowed. ONE thing to check also would be to see if the blower wheel that this motor drives has deteriorated due to the corrosive flue gases. Q: Is there a small rubber hose running from the combustion blower housing to an electrical switc? If so it uses pressure differential to prove combustion blower operation. The "soot" you saw around ac coil & in drain is most likely to be dried out black mold, it does grow back, but not in 2 weeks. It is possible to have too long a vent system however unless you are higher than two floors this is unlikely your problem.Venting tables are available from the mfgr. Let me know how it goes.
 
  #8  
Old 01-19-01, 12:08 PM
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Also you shoud expect the top center of the furnace to get pretty hot during operation as the combustion gases pass by. If you check you should see small thermally sensitive switches (hi-temp Limits & flame rollouts) near the combustion chamber/burners also there should be one protecting against flue over-temp, these are all safeties & one or more should open & shut down the furnace if venting is inadequate. The model # may be helpful as I am a Janitrol dealer & can orient to exactly which unit you have.
 
  #9  
Old 01-19-01, 12:16 PM
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Note: The manifold pressures I noted earlier were 4 nat. gas only, If yours is operating on LP gas the manifold pressure should be 11" water column (not 3.5" W.C.) Was the furnace origially set up for nat. gas & converted to LP? If so gas valve and orifice changes would have been made. Was this done correctly, (probally since you have had 2 yrs operation) just a thought tho.
 
  #10  
Old 01-19-01, 04:45 PM
PDF
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Yesterday

Yesterday I couldn't spell mecanic and today are is one.Vinnie as I mentioned on 1/15/01 call the FACTORY REP.>>>>>>Something is not right.As you stated you have pro pane.Something is NOT right.Please Mark do not confuse mechanics with TECHS.If it is an install a TECH always fine tunes the manifold pressure,if the system is ten years old he or she(the TECH) will also check do a manifold pressure check.A MECHANIC on the over hand will use a half can of pipe dope on the fittings and then spot torque them.You know what spot torquing is?It is when you tighten the fittings so tight you see spots in front of your eyes.PDF
 
  #11  
Old 01-19-01, 06:11 PM
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Hi there, if PDF means pretty damn funny then you are right on as I hadn't heard of spot torquing b4. Just trying to help. So many obvious things are overlooked so often, thought it best to check.
 
  #12  
Old 01-19-01, 08:57 PM
dna
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Thumbs up Pressures?

I agree with Mark S. and PDF. If we are talking any gas fired furnace and there is soot involved, something is not
burning correctly. Make sure the gas valve is converted for propane use, smaller propane orfices are installed in
the manifold and inlet pressure is 11" w.c. and manifold
pressure is 10" w.c.. Alot of installers are not convert-
ing this equipment over. To answer your question about
venting, the specifications for venting should be in the
installation instructions(I hope you still have them). You
can only run a certain amount of pipe for venting and use
so many fittings. Good luck, your neighbor in Lancaster.
 
  #13  
Old 01-20-01, 05:08 AM
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I would also advise you to call the service company back to find out how to call Janitrol and vent (no pun intended) my concerns to them. Advise them that you can't seem to get any satisfaction and that you want their service representative to look at the problem. Let them know that you aren't happy with the problem that you are experiencing with their equipment and that you are concerned for your safety and the safety of your property (that should grab their attention). Most of all, I realize that you are frustrated but do not attempt to service your furnace yourself!!!! Get the factory involved.
 
  #14  
Old 01-20-01, 06:48 AM
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Unhappy Janitrol GMPN 080-4 furnace

My Janitrol furnace model # is GMPN 080-4. Let me give a bit more detail of the problem. The venting system has been replaced because it had SO much black soot built up in it, that we could actually smell it in our home. The sevice coil appears to be filling up with this soot rather quickly, and I'm sure this soot is at the base of my problem. Keep in mind, a serviceman just tuned the furnace up, but I am sure he missed something as the furnace should not be producing this amount of black soot. There is a sticker on the indide of my furncae indicating the unit has been changed over to LP, but how can I tell for sure? I will be calling Janitrol Monday morning to express my concerns and frustrations as well as comment on the dealer who really did a piss poor job. As always, your comments are welcome and appreciated...the internet is a great source of help and information, but it appears I may have to call an expert....again!

Vinnie
 
  #15  
Old 01-20-01, 07:00 AM
fjrachel
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So much soot...2yrs. operating. It'll take about that amount of time to stop up enough to see the problem. The burner orifices are oversized. Gas valve was probably set for propane, but your burner orifices where not. You are probably still using nat.gas orifices or to large of an LP orifice for your altitude.
 
  #16  
Old 01-20-01, 08:22 AM
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Smile this may be it!

Wow...I think we MAY have found the problem. The knuckle-head who installed the furnace may left the origianl (oversized for LP) burner orifices on the furnace. This, after a period of time, could be causing the soot problem. But, my question is, how can I tell if they were changed over (sorry I don't trust the installer's word). Is there a specific size for the LP burner as opposed to the Natural gas size orifice burnes, and if so, what size should I have on my furnace for LP? Again, I have a Janitrol GMPN 080-4 furnace with Janitrol central air.

Thanks SO much!
Vinnie

p.s. The installer's explanation: I should have had the furnace tuned up after first (and 2nd) year of service, and this is why I have soot problem. I have turned this matter over to B.B.B., but not sure that will help.
 
  #17  
Old 01-20-01, 09:19 AM
fjrachel
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With 3 burners a 54 orifice and with 4 burners a 55 orifice. This info should be with the unit paperwork and gas conversion instructions. If you don't have them, get them from the Goodman Manufacturing Co.(Janitrol). My sizes are rule of thumb. Your exact sized maybe slightly smaller or larger. Get the paperwork. Also, what type of LP do you use Propane or Butane? This would change sizes again. What I've given you is Propane, which is more widely used.
 
  #18  
Old 01-20-01, 02:24 PM
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http://www.janitrol.com should work
 
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