New furnace laws for May 2013

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Old 10-11-12, 10:06 PM
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New furnace laws for May 2013

My sons' girlfriend called me in a panic about the new law that will take effect in May, 2013 for the Northern Regions. She was told by someone that furnaces sold after May will have to be 90% efficient. I believe this is basically true, but there will be 80% available until inventory is gone. She was told it would cost $10,000.00 to get a 90% furnace installed because all of the duct work will have to be replaced. I told her that part was false. I believe only a PVC vent pipe would have to be replaced in her case. Does any one know of a website that explains this new law? This is the perfect chance for scammers in the heating industry to try and do their bad deeds.

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Old 10-11-12, 10:36 PM
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Old 10-11-12, 11:36 PM
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Fifteen pages of tiny type and bureaucratic nonsense. Another one size fits none mandate from the federal government.

While mandating 90+% furnaces in SOME parts of the "northern region" may make sense it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in my area. Yes, parts of Wisconsin, North Dakota, Idaho and Montana do regularly drop below 20 degrees (or maybe even -20) Fahrenheit in the Puget Sound region of western Washington the temperature RARELY drops below freezing. The "savings"' from installing 90+% furnaces in this area is nil as a result of higher capital costs and increased maintenance costs. The break even point is going to be just a few years (if that) before the furnace will need replacement.
 
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Old 10-12-12, 03:42 AM
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sold after May
It isn't retroactive. If you plan on purchasing a unit, buy it before May. If not, stay warm.
 
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Old 10-12-12, 06:32 AM
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From what I read MA is trying to fight it. I found this that is an interesting read. There may be other states also. Don't Know. Its not the furnace so much as the venting required.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/building...tdoc_13006.pdf

It seems its the bureaucrats in Washington have too much time on their hands, and another way to cause hardship for the low income sector of America.

Sure federal rebates....Whats our deficit???? Not to beat a dead horse but I believe overall it will cost more money overall as Furd states.

The "savings"' from installing 90+% furnaces in this area is nil as a result of higher capital costs and increased maintenance costs. The break even point is going to be just a few years (if that) before the furnace will need replacement.
Pretty soon every house will need mandatory solar panels ....................


Its like telling me I have to have heath insurance....Geez!!!!

Dear government,

If I chose to die, just leave me alone.......
 
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Old 10-12-12, 12:18 PM
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I don't suppose there is a more condensed version in laymans terms about the new law? Yea, here in the Seattle area we rarely get below 20 F. And if we do it is for a very short period of time.
 
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Old 10-12-12, 11:01 PM
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It hasn't made any sense to install mid efficiency furnaces in the north east for years.

Mid efficiency units offer a false sense of economy in colder climates - a bit cheaper to purchase, much higher total cost of ownership due to fuel costs. The mechanical and electrical parts in high eff units are the same compared to mid eff units, so they aren't more expensive to repair, contrary to popular belief.

There are only two good reasons to install a 80% furnace in a cold climate:

1. No means to drain condensate without running the risk of freezing (more of a problem in attics, where hvac equipment doesn't belong in the first place)

2. Impossible to vent without major drywall/plaster demolition -> Furnace room in the middle of a finished basement without drop ceiling.

In canada, anything less than 90% efficient was taken off the market in 2010. It's my understanding that the new standards in the US will be regional - kind of difficult to enforce.

I believe only a PVC vent pipe would have to be replaced in her case. Does any one know of a website that explains this new law? This is the perfect chance for scammers in the heating industry to try and do their bad deeds.
One thing to watch out for is improper sizing.

Furnaces are sold based on the input BTUs, but it's the output that counts.

When going from conventional/mid efficiency to high efficiency, it's important to get a unit with a lower input rating...

For example, a 60k high eff unit replaces a 75k mid eff furnace.
 
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Old 10-12-12, 11:02 PM
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I've lived in the greater Seattle area for my entire 62 years and I can only remember maybe three or four times it got below 20 and those were OUTSIDE the actual Seattle City Limits. Inside the city limits I think it was maybe half-dozen times when it dropped below 25.
 
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