Arcoaire furnace kicks out
#1
10-30-12, 04:40 PM
Arcoaire furnace kicks out
I am having trouble with a 75k BTU Arcoaire unit shutting down within 2-3 seconds of the burner firing. I have had about 6 service calls to no solution. The induction motor runs, the burner igmites and then immediately shuts down. It recycles and usually goes the second time. It seems to happen more overnight than in the day (though I am not here deuring the day). So far we have..
I do notice that the flame sounds "waffle like" during ignition. I'm not sure what else to check. Of course when I get a tech here, it fires fine. Last night I watched it fail and cycle. I saw no error code flash on the board???? So I am not sure what else to try. They want $400 to put a new pressure valve in, but I am not convinced that that will fix it. I see where many have this type of problem and it can be many things....Any help woul be appreciated. Where do I look next? And, I just took new flame sensor out and cleaned it....and sucked on pressure switch to confirm it is working...Ideas?
- Replaced the flame sensor
- Replaced the circuit board
- replaced the induction valve
- Confirmed with Gas company that pressure is adequate at 7 WC, they tell me 5 is required and plenty.
I do notice that the flame sounds "waffle like" during ignition. I'm not sure what else to check. Of course when I get a tech here, it fires fine. Last night I watched it fail and cycle. I saw no error code flash on the board???? So I am not sure what else to try. They want $400 to put a new pressure valve in, but I am not convinced that that will fix it. I see where many have this type of problem and it can be many things....Any help woul be appreciated. Where do I look next? And, I just took new flame sensor out and cleaned it....and sucked on pressure switch to confirm it is working...Ideas?
#2
10-30-12, 04:59 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Changing out parts is not a recommended diagnostic procedure. Just because parts are new doesn't mean they are good.
Instead of changing out parts you really need to do the diagnostic work to determine what isn't working properly.
I'm also not impressed by a repairman who observes the furnace work normally and high tails it before it has a chance to fail, pausing only to hand out a bill.
What you have is an intermittent problem, often the bane of repairman. But that doesn't mean it can't be diagnosed --- it means it may take real skill to diagnose the problem and perseverance, which your repairman apparently doesn't have.
What your repairman should have been doing is to measure all the operating parameters in the furnace, looking for those that may be weak or marginal, and cycling the furnace on and off perhaps fifty or a hundred times to produce a failed start.
Just as an example of poor diagnostic procedures, lets talk about the pressure switch. The pressure switch is a delicate instrument that is calibrated to shut off the furnace if an unsafe condition is detected. Let's suppose that it is supposed to shut off at a negative pressure of 3" water column, and the actual pressure is -2.9" WC. That might well cause the furnace to operate intermittently and to shut off at other times.
If that were happening, you might well have an unsafe condition in the furnace, with the pressure switch doing what it is SUPPOSED to do and shutting off the furnace.
I would suppose your repairman didn't bother to measure the pressure being applied to the pressure switch, so he was unable to diagnose the problem. A typical pressure might be a reading of -5" WC. So if the pressure were measured, such a defect would be reasonably obvious to a skilled repairman. He might then go on to determine what was causing this improper pressure.
Your method of sucking on the pressure switch is a poor approach, since it fails to measure the actual pressure and has a good likelihood of damaging the pressure switch or causing it to read the pressure incorrectly, which could cause a hazardous condition.
Frankly, I don;t think your furnace is a good candidate for DIY repairs. It needs a skilled repairman willing to take the time to diagnose the actual problem. Based on your remarks so far, it doesn't appear that your repairman did a competent job diagnosing the problem, and the idea of doing more parts changing based on guesses sounds like a poor strategy as well.
Perhaps you can describe in detail the diagnostic work done by the repairman, to the extent you were informed of what he did. Perhaps he did more that you related in your post.
And tell us something about who the repairman was and something about the company he works for. A good company may have a repairman who can't diagnose a difficult problem, but good companies have skilled people to deal with difficult problems, and your best option might be to contact the company and ask for a more skilled person to diagnose the problem.
That's IF you are dealing with a reputable company with a good reputation. If you have doubts about the reputation of the company, the best thing to do might be to start over with a repairman from the best outfit in town.
Instead of changing out parts you really need to do the diagnostic work to determine what isn't working properly.
I'm also not impressed by a repairman who observes the furnace work normally and high tails it before it has a chance to fail, pausing only to hand out a bill.
What you have is an intermittent problem, often the bane of repairman. But that doesn't mean it can't be diagnosed --- it means it may take real skill to diagnose the problem and perseverance, which your repairman apparently doesn't have.
What your repairman should have been doing is to measure all the operating parameters in the furnace, looking for those that may be weak or marginal, and cycling the furnace on and off perhaps fifty or a hundred times to produce a failed start.
Just as an example of poor diagnostic procedures, lets talk about the pressure switch. The pressure switch is a delicate instrument that is calibrated to shut off the furnace if an unsafe condition is detected. Let's suppose that it is supposed to shut off at a negative pressure of 3" water column, and the actual pressure is -2.9" WC. That might well cause the furnace to operate intermittently and to shut off at other times.
If that were happening, you might well have an unsafe condition in the furnace, with the pressure switch doing what it is SUPPOSED to do and shutting off the furnace.
I would suppose your repairman didn't bother to measure the pressure being applied to the pressure switch, so he was unable to diagnose the problem. A typical pressure might be a reading of -5" WC. So if the pressure were measured, such a defect would be reasonably obvious to a skilled repairman. He might then go on to determine what was causing this improper pressure.
Your method of sucking on the pressure switch is a poor approach, since it fails to measure the actual pressure and has a good likelihood of damaging the pressure switch or causing it to read the pressure incorrectly, which could cause a hazardous condition.
Frankly, I don;t think your furnace is a good candidate for DIY repairs. It needs a skilled repairman willing to take the time to diagnose the actual problem. Based on your remarks so far, it doesn't appear that your repairman did a competent job diagnosing the problem, and the idea of doing more parts changing based on guesses sounds like a poor strategy as well.
Perhaps you can describe in detail the diagnostic work done by the repairman, to the extent you were informed of what he did. Perhaps he did more that you related in your post.
And tell us something about who the repairman was and something about the company he works for. A good company may have a repairman who can't diagnose a difficult problem, but good companies have skilled people to deal with difficult problems, and your best option might be to contact the company and ask for a more skilled person to diagnose the problem.
That's IF you are dealing with a reputable company with a good reputation. If you have doubts about the reputation of the company, the best thing to do might be to start over with a repairman from the best outfit in town.
Last edited by SeattlePioneer; 10-30-12 at 05:24 PM.
#3
10-30-12, 05:07 PM
Yes on multimeter, but think the one I have in the tool box is broke (so need to pick one up)............agree on parts changing, but running out of options. I would think (hope) that one of the 6 different people that repair these for a living, would have struck gold and solved the issue.
#5
10-30-12, 05:42 PM
Member
Has the gas pressure been checked at the manifold (should be approx. 3.5" h20)? Is the control board grounded? Is the burner and manifold grounded? Does the control board have a diagnostic LED? What is the model number of the furnace?
#6
10-30-12, 06:20 PM
Pressure has not been checked at the manifold......Not sure what is or isn't grounded, but techs told me everything was grounded....Control board has one red light, which has not given me any signal of malfunction...Model is GUI100A016ain. 100 in 80 out.....
BUT, if it's a grounding issue, or pressure issue, why does it fire almost always the second cycle?
BUT, if it's a grounding issue, or pressure issue, why does it fire almost always the second cycle?
