Carrier/Bryant Intermittant heat problem

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Old 11-25-12, 03:15 PM
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Unhappy Carrier/Bryant Intermittant heat problem

Brand: Carrier/Bryant ???
Model: PY1PNA036100ADBA
Serial: 3498G10739
Outside Temp: 30-50F
Thermostat Setting: 68F
Type of Heat: PSNC natural gas
Problem: Intermittant Heat



The HVAC kicks on 80% of the time to blow in the cold air from outside, 20% of the time it heats properly (vents blow a temperature of around 92F.) The unit cools my house down and the heat [when it works] is battling to keep it at the desired temperature. As a result my electric and gas bills are enormous.



The thermostat is a cheap, brand new Honeywell digital Thermostat. Set to 68F at all times, Fan set to Auto, Switched to heat.

When the house is heating properly the 2 gas burner are ignited, however there is some sort of exhaust vent that appears to be missing a flap that is wasting hot air by blowing it outside. (is this normal?)

Every other time (when it's blowing cold air) the fan is running, but the burners are NOT ignited.

TLDL; heater blows cold air from outside most of the time, sometimes heats properly when burners actually ignite.

I did not try to light the burners manually because I didn't want anything to blow up.

Below is a short video of the unit in action with commentary.

Carrier Bryant hvac not working - YouTube

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  #2  
Old 11-25-12, 03:42 PM
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Observe the sequence of events that occurs at the furnace when you turn up the thermostat and post that sequence of events in order and in detail.


<< however there is some sort of exhaust vent that appears to be missing a flap that is wasting hot air by blowing it outside. (is this normal?)

>>


I don't know what you are referring to here. You will need to describe it in detail or best would be to post a picture of it.
 
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Old 11-25-12, 03:50 PM
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remove and clean the spark ignitor, flame sensor and burners. Check to see what the diagnostic light means. it should be somewhere on the panel that covers over the electrical compartment that the control board is in.
 
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Old 11-25-12, 03:58 PM
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it has a screw going down the middle, did a shutter use to be there?

In my video, I am recording and my friend is controlling the thermostat. When he turns the heat on, the unit's fan outside will start running in under 1 minute. No heat is being generated because the burners are not burning. The unit will continue to run for a very long time, however sometimes after an hour or so the unit will start putting out heat (and after checking the burners are lit). I would assume there would normally be something in place that says "woah HVAC, don't run if there is no burner ignition or heat" but it runs nonetheless.
 
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Old 11-25-12, 04:05 PM
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no, there is no control that tells it the burner has not fired as you suggested.

No, there was no shutter where the rod is in the middle of exhaust vent.

Do as I suggested and find out what the solid diagnostic light means.
 
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Old 11-25-12, 04:07 PM
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the light staying on means "normal" operation
 
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Old 11-25-12, 04:36 PM
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That's the vent "pipe" or "chimney" for the furnace, where the combustion gasses are vented into the atmosphere.
 

Last edited by SeattlePioneer; 11-25-12 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 11-25-12, 07:05 PM
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http://www.xpedio.carrier.com/idc/gr...ss-py1p-02.pdf

No trouble code sounds like the unit isn't getting 24VAC to "W".
Is the vent motor running when this problem occurs? It doesn't sound like it is in the video.

If the vent motor doesn't run, try connecting the W wire to the R at your unit wire when this problem occurs.

 

Last edited by Houston204; 11-25-12 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 11-25-12, 08:46 PM
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Houston204, I appreciate the help, but I don't know how to read an electrical diagram. What is "W"? Is this schematic for my exact model, or a similar model? Can you circle the W and R wire, and maybe describe where it is using time stamps from my video? I appreciate all the feedback!
 
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Old 11-25-12, 09:59 PM
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Your unit has "pigtail" wires that the thermostat wire connects to with wire nuts.
I colored in these wires in on my post.

Disconnect the white wires and connect the package unit's white (heat) wire to the package unit's red (24VAC) wire to bypass the stat.
 

Last edited by Houston204; 11-25-12 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 11-25-12, 10:14 PM
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I hope I'm on not frustrating you, are you saying to remove the single W19WHT wire from "W" hexagon (in the picture) and put it into the "R" hexagon WITH the W21 RED wire, so 2 wires are connected to 1 place? And I don't think this https://acpartsdistributors.com/inde...ducts_id=39364 part was on, if it is the one you're referring to.
 
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Old 11-25-12, 10:20 PM
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This unit is controlled from your thermostat with a brown multiple conductor wire.

This wire can be traced to the unit's circuit board but the actual wire nuts can be in a different section of the package unit.

The control (stat) wire usually looks like this...
 
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Old 11-25-12, 10:25 PM
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i will check the control wire for damage right now

edit: I see a pipe that carries my gas, and a thick insulated tube that connects to a fuse box for the unit. No single wire like pictured.
 
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Old 11-25-12, 10:44 PM
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I didn't see it in the video either. It may be inside of the return air duct. (I see this done without the white plenum rated wire sometimes).

I'm actually a Carrier tech and don't see many Payne units but it has a Carrier equivalent. I wanna say it is the Carrier 48GS.

Pictures can be posted on this site using Photo and image hosting, free photo galleries, photo editing | Photobucket

Post some pictures tomorrow if you can't find the stat wire.

If the burners are on the front right, the stat connections can be at the rear left, or front left but that's not what page 12 of the 48GS manual states...

http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc...t/48gs-1si.pdf
 
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Old 12-20-12, 11:04 AM
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I had an electrician friend look at it and he said it could be the whole board. He says this because when we set it to heat, many times the compressor and fan kick on. Should the compressor fan/compressor ever kick on when it's set to heat, or heating?
 
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Old 12-20-12, 11:10 AM
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Old 12-20-12, 07:06 PM
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This can happen if the control wire (thermostat wire) to the unit is damaged.
Rodents like to chew the stat wire where it exits the house.
Stat wires often rub a short where they pass through duct work or panels.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 03:14 PM
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Where do I purchase a new stat wire, control wire?
 
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Old 12-22-12, 06:37 PM
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Any hardware store should have it.
 
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Old 12-23-12, 09:01 PM
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I bought a new tstat wire and spent 140 bucks on a new circuit board because it looked like there were traces of burn marks on some if the components. I'll update when I the part comes in.
 

Last edited by hvactechfw; 12-24-12 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 12-27-12, 01:46 PM
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thank you for the edit, I took a photo of how the original Tstat wire was wired to the outside unit.



The smaller wires are the Tstat wires, the thicker wires come from the unit.

Tstat>Unit
Blue>Yellow
Green>Green
Red>Red
White>White
Yellow> Nothing
Brown>Nothing

I am currently rewiring the new Thermostat wire exactly as the previous, is this correct?

Update: Apparently the last photo I posted of the thermostat was not representative of the way it was wired at the time, here is how the tstat is currently wired.



Update 2: The above photos reflect the most current wiring. Currently I have a brand new tstat wire going from the thermostat to the unit. When I set the thermostat to heat to turn it on, the compressor outside immediately kicks on, after 2-3 minutes the heat turns on. It's my understanding that this is not the normal operation as the compressor is mixing the cold air from outside, with the heat generated from the gas (leading to inefficient operation). As I said before, there are some light burn marks around an area of the control board, and I have a new one shipping to me soon. Could a damaged control board be causing this issue? Should the compressor be kicking on?
 

Last edited by kanwisher; 12-27-12 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 12-31-12, 04:27 PM
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OK, I have some good news about the unit (sorta). I got it to heat my house without running the compressor at the same time! I ordered a new control board.

ICM291 Direct Spark Ignition Control Board LH33WP003: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

As you can see below, the original has some burn damage. I wanted to replace it to be sure it wasn't the problem.





(the burns match, one of the photos is just flipped)

After installing the new board and turning it on, it still didn't work. I started moving some wires around on the thermostat to see if the wires were just miscolored/connected

The left column designates the wire, the right column designates the connection port on the thermostat. The result is at the bottom.



As you can see, I had success with the Blue Not Connected which seemed to be controlling the compressor/AC, and the white in the Yellow port. In this orientation the heat kicked on and the compressor NEVER kicked on. My initial problem was that the compressor would run at the same time as the heat, leaving my house to cool and heat at different times or even at the same time. My registers are blowing out 115F heat currently.

Here is how the thermostat is currently connected.

(See my last post to see a photo of where the thermostat wires lead to the unit and are connected)


Now guys, I've already patted myself on the back and congratulated myself on a job well done, but I still haven't really fixed it. I've just sorta tricked it. In the summer time, my thermostat won't work because the blue one isn't connected. Once I sell my house I don't want to say, Yeah the AC works if you do ABC and 123. So given all this information, which colors need to go to which ports on the thermostat so that the heat works on heat, and the AC works on AC.

And above all, thanks to all who have heard my problem and provided advice. I hope, by continuing to contribute to this thread, another DIYer down the road will be able to reference a solution.
 
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Old 01-01-13, 08:01 AM
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http://pdf.lowes.com/installationgui...85_install.pdf

starting on page 12 is the advanced installation instructions for your thermostat.

Important settings:
1 = 0
5 = 5
15 = 1

Wiring

Red = R and Rc
White - W
Green = G
Blue = Y
 
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Old 01-01-13, 12:08 PM
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Cool

I actually figured it out by looking at the manual last night online but I'm impressed that you were able to determine the solution too! That was it! Looks like the thermostat was acting as a heat pump or something, maybe my dad changed it when he was trying to find a solution? Either way, it works! Thanks! It was set to 1=1 instead of 1=0. Happy new year!
 
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