Goodman GKS9 1155DX Problem

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Old 12-06-12, 09:40 AM
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Goodman GKS9 1155DX Problem

Hello folks!

I recently had a new furnace installed and it has not worked right ever since.

The furnace I have is a Goodman GKS9 1155DX.

Currently the light on the front of the furnace is blinking 3 times on and off. After a bit of research I found that this is likely a pressure switch problem. If I take the front panel off of the furnace the problem resolves itself and the unit functions perfectly although I imagine that the panel is there to contain the exhaust fumes and direct them to the exhaust ports. When I take the panel off the red light remains constant - indicating proper operation. When I replace the panel, the furnace starts to turn on and off randomly for a minute or two and eventually gives me the same error code: blinks 3 times on and off.

I have tried taking off the rubber tubing that connects the vent blower to the pressure switch to make sure that it is not clogged. After inspecting it, I replaced it. The problem persists.
I have tried turning the power off to the furnace for about 1 minute * then back on to no avail.

I would really appreciate any help with this. Please let me know if you need any more information. I can also post pics if needed.

I am just tired of running space heaters to keep the place warm and my HVAC guy is not in a hurry to come over and check it out.

Thanks!

Luke
 
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  #2  
Old 12-06-12, 09:54 AM
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I would inform your contractor that if he doesn't get his butt out to fix your furnace, you will be hiring someone who will and then suing him for the costs you have experienced, which would include outsized electrical bills.

You might inform him that when the weather gets colder you will have to move into some luxury condo until the problem is resolved, and he will be sued for that cost as well.

The treatment you are getting is DISGRACEFUL!
 
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Old 12-06-12, 01:02 PM
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It could be a venting or condensate drainage problem.

What size is the exhaust pipe?
How long?
How many elbows?
Does it slightly slope towards the furnace? (it should)
Is the intake connected?

You have a very large furnace now - hope you've got a large house -> 3000-4000+ sq ft <-- or lots of single pane windows.

Regardless of what's wrong, you shouldn't have to troubleshoot a newly installed unit.
 
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Old 12-06-12, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Muggle
It could be a venting or condensate drainage problem.

What size is the exhaust pipe?
How long?
How many elbows?
Does it slightly slope towards the furnace? (it should)
Is the intake connected?

You have a very large furnace now - hope you've got a large house -> 3000-4000+ sq ft <-- or lots of single pane windows.

Regardless of what's wrong, you shouldn't have to troubleshoot a newly installed unit.
  • There are a total of 6 elbows on each the intake and exhaust pipes.
  • The house is small (650-700sq/ft), but poorly insulated - all the windows are single pane.
  • The intake and exhaust PVC piping does slope down to the furnace. These pipes are not clogged - I ran some bx wire down the intake yesterday just to make sure. The exhaust blows very well, so I have no reason to suspect that would be clogged.
  • The intake pipe is about 11 feet long from where it connects to the furnace to where it terminates outside the building. The exhaust is about 12 feet.
  • I have the blower on the furnace set on the lowest setting.
  • The intake and exhaust pipes are both 2" inside diameter. As you can see in the following photo - the installer widened the pipes about 2 feet above where they connect to the furnace. Those are 3" pipes.




Thank you so much for your reply! Please let me know if you need any more information to help solve this issue
 
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Old 12-06-12, 04:29 PM
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Unless you're in the arctic or something, it's safe to say that your furnace is much larger than it should be.

I can't imagine a 700 sq ft house needing anything more than 70k with absolutely no insulation, bad windows and excessive air leakage. If your house was properly insulated, even a 45k model would have a lot of capacity to spare.

It's the output that counts; 92% of 115k is 106 000 BTUs out.

So what you have now replaces a conventional 140k btu input conventional furnace.

---------------------------
The lowest blower speed is most likely too low for your application - how hot is the air coming out of the vents?


I'll look up the venting info later.
 
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Old 12-06-12, 05:23 PM
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According to the install manual (http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related...M%209-2012.pdf, page 16), your venting is okay, but I could be wrong.
 
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Old 12-06-12, 05:50 PM
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The air coming out of the vents is very warm. I initially had it on the medium setting - and it was moving the air much too fast. The air was much cooler than it is now.

I knew the BTU output of this unit was more than what I needed when I purchased it; however, I was told that it would not interfere with the operation of the furnace. The house would simply get warm faster.
 
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Old 12-06-12, 07:15 PM
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The air temperature difference between the supply and return needs to be within the manufacturer's specifications.

The air coming out of the vents is very warm. I initially had it on the medium setting - and it was moving the air much too fast. The air was much cooler than it is now.

I looked at the blower performance chart and the fan definitely needs to be on medium or high to move enough air. Insufficient airflow can reduce the lifespan of the furnace, cause the high temperature limit to trip, and increase gas consumption.

The air is moving too quickly because the furnace is far too large for the house. The only real fix is to install a properly sized furnace.

Having too much capacity greatly reduces comfort; the idea is to replace the heat that the house looses, not heat up very quickly and shut down. On the coldest night of the year, it should run at least 2/3rd of the time, and that's if the furnace is 50% larger than it needs to be.

----------------------
But anyway, back to the problem...

Proper operation only with the burner cover removed indicates that there's a venting problem even though the length of the pipe doesn't seem to be an issue.

Were screens installed at the end of both pipes? If yes, try removing them.

The installer should check the pressure in line with the pressure switch, using a manometer.
 
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Old 12-07-12, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Muggle
I looked at the blower performance chart and the fan definitely needs to be on medium or high to move enough air. Insufficient airflow can reduce the lifespan of the furnace, cause the high temperature limit to trip, and increase gas consumption.

The air is moving too quickly because the furnace is far too large for the house. The only real fix is to install a properly sized furnace.

Having too much capacity greatly reduces comfort; the idea is to replace the heat that the house looses, not heat up very quickly and shut down. On the coldest night of the year, it should run at least 2/3rd of the time, and that's if the furnace is 50% larger than it needs to be.

----------------------
But anyway, back to the problem...

Proper operation only with the burner cover removed indicates that there's a venting problem even though the length of the pipe doesn't seem to be an issue.

Were screens installed at the end of both pipes? If yes, try removing them.

The installer should check the pressure in line with the pressure switch, using a manometer.

I read this post last night before I went to work and it gave me an idea. The furnace is housed in the basement and has 1 vent that I keep closed down there since we only use the basement for storage.

I decided to open this vent - thereby effectively increasing the square footage of the house from 700sq/ft to about 1000sq/ft.

My theory is that the blower puts out more air than the vents can expel - this creates a sort of back-pressure in the unit that causes the pressure switch to go haywire. Do you think this is feasible?

I just got home from work and the house is a cozy 73*F. The furnace seems to be working fine after I opened the basement vent. I'll keep my fingers crossed and monitor the situation closely - I just hope that my heating bill doesn't get out of control.

Unfortunately replacing the unit is not an option - at least not now.

I'll keep you posted on any new developments. Thank you for your help thus far!
 
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Old 12-07-12, 12:58 PM
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My theory is that the blower puts out more air than the vents can expel - this creates a sort of back-pressure in the unit that causes the pressure switch to go haywire. Do you think this is feasible?
The pressure switch is there to make sure that there's a proper draft on the combustion side of the system. It doesn't control the blower.

Chances are that the high temperature limit was shutting down the furnace. Use fiberglass filters only, never close vents, and keep the blower speed on medium or high to prevent problems.

Even if it seems to be working correctly, what the installing company did (grossly oversizing the furnace) was completely wrong. The new unit won't run anywhere near rated efficiency (as a result of very short cycles), nor will it last very long.

I would complain.
 
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Old 12-07-12, 06:10 PM
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That's part of the problem. I purchased this furnace myself and just had the guy come out and install it. He said that it was way too big for my house, but it should still run fine.



By the way, that fix that I posted earlier this morning (opening the basement vent) was apparently a temporary solution. The light is blinking 3 times on and off again until I remove the front cover.
 
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Old 12-07-12, 06:58 PM
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You might have to bite the bullet and get another tech to check the installation.

I still think it's a venting issue.

With the cover on, is there airflow at the exhaust pipe? Is there significantly more air movement with the cover off?

This is a long shot, but: Is the condensate line clear? Does it slope towards the drain? Did the installer prime the trap?

You can temporarily disconnect the intake pipe to get heat if it wasn't glued where it enters the furnace.
 
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Old 12-07-12, 10:12 PM
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There is plenty of airflow at the exhaust with the cover on. The air is warm and moist. I will check tomorrow if there is more airflow with the cover off (it's 11pm here)

Here are some pictures of the internals of the furnace as well as a pic of the condensate line. If by priming the trap you mean pouring some water into the reservoir - yes I watched him do that when he was installing it. Personally I don't think the line is done as it should be. It's just a simple piece of clear vinyl tubing that runs from the furnace to a drain in the basement. It is sloped down all the way to the drain.

I would be willing to bite the bullet and have someone else take a look at it, but the guy that installed it has been asking for his money. Frankly I don't want to pay him since it's obviously not done right - and he did say he could make it work.





 
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Old 12-08-12, 08:58 AM
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Definitely a problem with the intake air. The PVC pipe on the left the one that sucks in air from outside has a blockage of some kind. If you remove the pipe from the furnace and put the door back on it should work. And if it does the pipe is clogged.
 
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Old 12-08-12, 12:13 PM
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Hi ender, thanks for your reply.

As I mentioned in my earlier reply on Thursday, I ran some BX wire down the intake and I found that there was no blockage.

I will try to take the intake PVC off just to see if it is an intake problem. I'll post back in a bit.
 
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Old 12-08-12, 02:12 PM
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The intake alone may not be the culprit.

The venter motor (the small fan inside the furnace, not the blower) pulls air through the intake pipe, through the heat exchanger, and pushes the exhaust through the exhaust pipe.

A slight restriction (or too many elbows) on the exhaust or intake can cause the pressure switch not to close.

Opening the blower compartment bypasses the intake and effectively reduces the length of pipe that the combustion air/exhaust has to flow through, thereby allowing the furnace to fire. Just because the furnace fires doesn't mean there isn't an issue with the exhaust.
 

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Old 12-08-12, 02:56 PM
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...the only other possibility is a defective pressure switch which opens prematurely.
 
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Old 12-08-12, 03:26 PM
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There are no screens on either the intake or exhaust.

The ports on the furnace are exactly 2" inside diameter, as illustrated in the pic below:



Please note the lip inside of the port itself, visible in the lower part of the picture. This is where I am calculating my inside diameter. It is on this lip that the intake PVC pipe rests.

The 2" segments on the intake and exhaust cannot be bottlenecks because the port itself is 2" inside diameter.

It has been over 3 hours now since I disconnected the intake PVC from the furnace and it seems to be working fine. The light on the control board is solid - indicating proper operation. I will leave it like this overnight and I'll post an update tomorrow.
 
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Old 12-08-12, 05:14 PM
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I deleted the part about the 2" part being a bottle neck before you posted a reply.

--------------
Really it should work fine with the intake connected; hence, there's still a problem which needs to be addressed by a tech. Disconnecting the intake is not a good long term solution - I suggested it so you can get heat temporarily.
 
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Old 12-09-12, 07:39 AM
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I'm pleased that you took my advice. I believe that, because there is no screen on the outside, there is probably a bird in the PVC somewhere. I've seen it a dozen times.
 
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Old 12-09-12, 11:06 AM
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I just got back home from work - the intake pipe has been off for nearly 20 hours and.....The light on the furnace is blinking again...

&$*#!

Same error code - 3 blinks and a pause, 3 blinks and a pause, etc.

I asked my family if the furnace kicked on after I left for work, and everyone is saying that it did and the house stayed warm throughout the night.

Is there any way to check if the pressure switch is working properly? I don't want to have to get a new one only to find out that that's not the problem.

You guys have been awesome so far, I don't know how to thank you for all your help!
 
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Old 12-09-12, 03:52 PM
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Are you sure three blinks/flashes indicates that the pressure switch is opening? (not the high limit switch?)

The only way to check the pressure switch is with a manometer, hooked up in line with the pressure switch tubing.

Check the service manual for more info.
 
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Old 12-10-12, 10:24 AM
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Old 12-10-12, 03:20 PM
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Ultimately, I really think you'll have to cut your losses and contact an establish goodman dealer to solve the problem.

It could have a defective part or there's an issue with the install.

Your unit has a 10 year parts warranty - just don't mention that you bought the furnace yourself.

Good luck.
 
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Old 12-10-12, 04:07 PM
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Why can I not mention that I bought it myself? If I do say that the guy who intstalled it also purchased it, they will want his name and contact info to verify, I'm sure.

Either way, it will be a cold day in hell when I pay the guy who installed this thing. I'll get in touch with him once again and tell him straight out: If you can't fix it, I'm getting someone else to take a look at it.
 
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Old 12-10-12, 05:14 PM
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...because manufacturers don't warranty equipment sold over the internet.

If you still have yet to pay the installer, tell him that you're going to deduct the the cost of the service call/repair (from install cost) if he doesn't come and fix it. It's only fair.

I don't think there's much he can do about it if no contract was signed.
 
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