Electronic ignigtion clicks but does not light furnace pilot

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  #1  
Old 12-10-12, 05:42 PM
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Electronic ignigtion clicks but does not light furnace pilot

Hello all,
I have a Carrier furnace (about 20 years old) with an electronic ignition, not a standing pilot. Sometimes the electronic ignition makes a clicking noise, sparks shoot across the pilot gap, but the pilot does not light even though I hear the gas coming from the pilot. If I light the pilot manually with a lighter, then the clicking stops, the pilot lights, and the burners light fully after about 30 seconds or so.

I have tried cleaning the pilot hole with a toothpick and wire hanger to clear out any dirt, but I still have this symptom intermittently. How can I fix this so I get consistent electronic lighting of the pilot?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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  #2  
Old 12-10-12, 05:52 PM
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Pictures of this pilot assy please ?
 
  #3  
Old 12-10-12, 05:53 PM
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I have tried cleaning the pilot hole with a toothpick and wire hanger to clear out any dirt
A toothpick should not be used as a piece could break off in the orifice.

How did you use a wire hanger to clean the pilot ? The hole is tiny.
 
  #4  
Old 12-11-12, 08:21 AM
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Okay, here is some info and some pictures of the pilot assembly.

As I stated initially, the electronic ignition sparks continuously across the gap and sometimes the pilot doesn't light even after a minute of sparking. There is definitely gas coming through the pilot tube because I can light it with a lighter. This failure to light happens about 50% of the time.

Thanks again for any help.

Carrier furnace
Model #: 5GSC045-GB
Product #: 5GSC045---GB
Series: 130
5.6 Max amps
 
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  #5  
Old 12-11-12, 08:26 AM
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okay, so is this pilot assy a Robershaw aftermarket

or is this the carrier OEM pilot assy?

you may have to remove it to find out

Remember lighting it with a lighter can be deadly if the combustion is filled with gas...you know how dangerous this can be, right? I have to throw this out there so readers don't try this.
 

Last edited by boilernut; 12-11-12 at 10:53 AM.
  #6  
Old 12-11-12, 11:15 AM
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Yes, thanks for the safety warning. I am very careful around gas lines. I made sure I have good ventilation (open garage) and only light after the unit first starts and I hear the slow trickle of the pilot. I don't plan on using the lighter on a regular basis--it was just to test to see if the pilot could hold a flame once lit (it can).

Why does the pilot assembly brand matter? I can't see what it is right now. Is that the likely culprit? Remember, I can see the spark and it does light the pilot about 1/2 the time.
 
  #7  
Old 12-11-12, 01:21 PM
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I was a Carrier Dealer for 10 years here

I know what I'm talking about

Some of the generic pilot assys. won't light, they just sit there, spark, blow gas, and don't light...maybe a flaw in their design? Maybe the gas swirls inside the pilot assy and misses the pilot hood? Don't use generic parts on these units.
Maybe a weak spark too, or unknown draft pulling the gas away from the pilot hood?

Be thorough and careful please
 
  #8  
Old 12-11-12, 02:29 PM
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When the pilot lights is it orange or blue? If it is orange that would indicate that rust is in the pilot feed line. I have seen these old Carrier furnaces start working right again after your light them with a lighter. When the unit is cool, try a high powered shop vac to clean he assembly and the surrounding area.

I assume that last year this furnace did not have this problem, right?
 
  #9  
Old 12-11-12, 02:30 PM
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I'm sure you do know what you are talking about--that's why I asked you . (I was not being sarcastic about the safety warning--I certainly realize how dangerous it could be. I shut off the gas line from both internal and external valves, vented the chamber, then turned on, listened and lit the pilot.)

But I am confused about what you are recommending that I do next. If I take it out and it turns out to be a generic/aftermarket or if it is a Carrier OEM, how would I proceed differently? Is the pilot assembly (generic or not) likely the bad part? Is there something that I can test to make sure that it's bad before I go and buy a new one?

Thanks for the advice so far.
 
  #10  
Old 12-11-12, 02:35 PM
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EnclosedVisions - When the pilot lights (about 1/2 the time) the flame is pure blue. I'll try vacuuming the area anyway to see if it helps. I just moved into this home so I don't know how it performed last winter, unfortunately.
 
  #11  
Old 12-11-12, 03:23 PM
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Take the pilot out, remove the pilot line, orifice and see if there are any flys in there lol. The bugs like to go inside the pilot assy for their sulfur high I guess?

Anyway, if it's clean, and not an OEM, throw it away and order the right one.
 
  #12  
Old 12-11-12, 04:22 PM
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Sometimes you need to be an artist to get a Carrier pilot to light.

sometimes juducious bending of the elctrode will help, especially if you have a spare electrode for the time the bending breaks it off.

For one thing, I would examine the way the pilot flame burns in detail. you want to have the spark go through the pilot flame generally speaking, but it may take some experimentation to get it to work.

A new pilot orifice is worth trying. So is a new electrode and so is a new pilot burner in difficult cases.

Usually getting the stupid pilot light to work is easily done by cleaning, but on rare occasions it's a *****.
 
  #13  
Old 12-11-12, 05:47 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I'll try disassembling, cleaning, and carefully repositioning the electrode. Right now, the spark it hitting the lip pretty consistently and I don't know if I can make it spark in a better location (sparks always go to the lip or point of high curvature).

If I need to try to replace some or all of these parts, what do I look for? If I need a new pilot orifice, electrode, and/or pilot burner, are those all three separate parts or part of a single pilot assembly? Also, where do you suggest I purchase Carrier OEM parts? Is there an online store that you recommend?

Carrier furnace, model 58GSC045

Thanks.
 
  #14  
Old 12-11-12, 06:06 PM
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[TABLE="class: li rsittlref, width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="class: pic lt ipic, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: dtl"]Carrier OEM furnace pilot burner 3-wire LH680005 1830-620 #740
Location:Minnesota,United States

Returns: Accepted within 14 days


Listed as USED
Priced at $38

free shipping

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This is what I found. Granted it is USED but this whole assembly new cost well over $150 for the burner and Igniter. Yes, they are sold separately. if you want new then I found a new Burner on eBay for $59 with free shipping. At that price I will assume it is not Carrier OEM.

#740A - 3-WIRE PILOT BURNER -...
$59.00

To remove the complete assembly you have to first loosen the nut that hold the pilot gas line, then remove the two small bolts that hold the assembly to the furnace, and lastly you have to disconnect the cable from the back of the igniter. Re-installation is the same just in reverse.
 
  #15  
Old 12-11-12, 06:23 PM
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I already see generic non OEM

It replaces or it fits is language for generic

Don't go down this road

Never install used parts, give me a break
 
  #16  
Old 12-12-12, 01:09 PM
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Okay, so where do I get Carrier OEM? I have contacted their customer service, but no reply yet. (I'm going to try cleaning the pilot tube first, but I need a good parts site if that doesn't work.)

Also, I can't even find my model listed on their website. Is this usual? Carrier 58GSC045-GB.

Thanks.
 
  #17  
Old 12-12-12, 01:13 PM
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  #18  
Old 12-12-12, 02:34 PM
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Thanks, boilernut. How did you know that this was the right pilot part number? Is there a manual or cross-reference that I refer to?

Also, what is the difference between this pilot assembly and this pilot safety switch? They both look identical and neither looks like it includes the spark electrode but there is a $100 price difference.
 
  #19  
Old 12-12-12, 02:47 PM
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If you have a 3 wire pilot, this should do the trick, if your old one is bad.

The difference is one person is making more profit than another ?
 
  #20  
Old 12-13-12, 03:04 PM
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Okay, here is an update.

I opened up the the pilot gas line tube and blew through it. Nothing came out, but it wasn't that easy to blow through. It's not a big tube and there are a couple (smooth, unkinked) 90 degree bends, but there was resistance when I blew.

Taking SeattlePioneer's advice, I tried to adjust the electrode tip. Prior to adjusting, the electrode was sparking with the gas guidance lip (the rounded lip that guides the pilot flame up to the burners). I adjusted it so that the electrode would spark directly to the pilot gas line orifice hole (bent it about 1/4 inch down). After I did that, the pilot lights on the first or second spark, very consistently. Is this okay? Should it be sparking with the pilot orifice tube hole?

Thanks.
 
  #21  
Old 12-13-12, 03:20 PM
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It should spark at the hood area only. If the porcelain is cracked around the electrode, you can get sparks where you don't want them. If you have a good spark at the pilot hood, and it's lighting, you're good.
 
  #22  
Old 12-13-12, 04:48 PM
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What is the "pilot hood"? Is that the rounded part that guides the flame up toward the burners? I have adjusted the electrode to spark toward the tube where the pilot gas comes out. Is this unsafe? I know that if I adjust it back toward the round guidance area that I won't get consistent ignition.
 
  #23  
Old 12-13-12, 05:25 PM
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The hood is the upside down V shaped channel on top of the round tube where the gas comes out. The electrode is factory set in a good position as it is...should spark in the right location without touching it.
 
  #24  
Old 12-13-12, 06:09 PM
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It was sparking with the hood but not lighting consistently.

It is now sparking with the lip of the pilot tube (where the gas comes out) and the sparks cause consistent lighting.

Do I need to change it back (spark with the lip) and figure something else out?

What is the long tube that fuels the pilot called? How easy should it be to blow through that?
 
  #25  
Old 12-14-12, 06:22 AM
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If you have it sparking and lighting good, you're there. The round thing you speak of is the part of the PILOT BURNER. So you have the orifice, a round tube / venturi, and a hood...all part of the pilot burner assy.


 
  #26  
Old 12-14-12, 02:43 PM
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Hi,I have a bryant 90+ same setup and simular problem except if i quickly turn the blue gas valve knob off and on it will light but with a large dancing flame that looks like it is being sucked down 1 burner tube and the main valve does not open untill I jump it .my question is could their be a hole somewhere letting the inducer motor suck the gas away from the spark and also causing the pilot not to be hot enough to switch the main burner on .the pilot is new but same problem .I put 2 used gas valves on thinking the pilot gas pressure was too high blowing past spark
 
  #27  
Old 12-15-12, 11:29 AM
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Sounbds like you have an entirely different problem. I'd repost and start a new thread.
 
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