Payne furnace shows no error codes but won't start...

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Old 05-05-13, 09:12 PM
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Exclamation Payne furnace shows no error codes but won't start...

Hello,

first, thank you for taking time to read my post, I really appreciate any advice.

I'll be very upfront, I've lived in an apartment all my life, so I've never had to dela with my own furnace before.

Situation: had to have roof redone, my furnace is in the attic and while I can't see any visual damage, it stopped working on the 2nd day the guys were working up there.

What model: PG8DAA060115 - i opened up the panel and this is what i found

Error code: the red light is a solid red, no error codes showing

What did I check: I checked the gas value, made sure it was on. Checked the power, and it showed on (ofc the red light is on), and checked the breakers.

What is the unit doing? When the thermostat tells it to go on, I definitely hear the furnace starting. But then, the fan never turns on. When i manually switch to the fan being on all the time, I get cold air... that is it.

Any thoughts on what I could check? I've shut the gas valve to perpedicular position, just because I'm not a fan of having a potentially "broken" furnace getting gas...

Any thoughts, or advice, or suggestions would be very appreciated.

Thank you

Furnace newbie
 
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Old 05-05-13, 10:18 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

There is a combustion air flow sensor switch that prevents the furnace from igniting if there is insufficient air flow due to any of several reasons. What I normally hear with my furnace and I presume yours is similar, is the combustion blower comes on for about 10 seconds, then the burners are ignited followed shortly thereafter by the main forced air blower. If there is a problem with the combustion air system, the combustion blower will come on for about 30 seconds, then shut off, the furnace will go through its two minutes, or so, of cool down blower, then it will try the ignition cycle again. It will continue doing that until you turn off the thermostat or set it to a lower temperature so that it isn't calling for heat.
What I described above is how my furnace behaves, but there is a lot of similarity of function because of the requirements established by ASHRAE. At least with this kind of information, when you call an HVAC repair company, you can better describe the problem.

Good luck.
 
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Old 05-06-13, 12:33 AM
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Payne Service Manual

Above is the service manual for your furnace. You can follow the diagnostic tree on or around page 12.

Turn power off to unit for a minute. Turn back on and set to heat. Watch what happens at the unit and let us know.

As Doug mentioned there should be an inducer fan that turns on.
After 30 seconds or so the hot surface ignitor should turn on. It should glow for another 30 seconds and then the gas valve should open so burner can light.

Describe in detail what happens and then we can figure out what is wrong.
 
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Old 05-06-13, 07:23 AM
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Thank you PJMax and tldoug - appreciate both of your comments.

I went through and tried the steps, turning off the thermostat, gas, electricity, opening the unit and turning off the switch inside, waiting 5 mins, then going in reverse.

The unit did the same thing - the red diagnostic light remained on solid, but for 3-4 minutes the system kept running. The fan/blower to circulate the air never went on, and when i manually switched it to on it just blew out cold air. Even then, its been a bit odd, usually when i go from Auto to on, the fan kicks in automatically. This time, I had to basically turn the unit "off", make sure the heat is off, and then put the fan "ON".

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what cycle or what it was trying to do - I could definitely hear the unit starting up as soon as my thermostat shows "Heat ON", but I can't hear any changes - ie. it starts and basically sounds the same throughout.

I had the unit closed back up, so I couldn't see any glowing... and I'm not sure how I can see/hear the gas coming on? We do have a gas stove/range top, and it has been running fine, so I presume its not an issue with gas not getting to our house (though I realize the lines split at some pt).

Sorry, I don't think I'm providing much new info here... but hopefully something I mentioned helped.

Regarding air flow, the return flow air should be fine,... although I did notice that there was a little bit of space at the ducting - where the big fluffy "pipes" connect to the furnace... wonder if that opened during the roof work...?
 
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Old 05-06-13, 09:12 AM
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but for 3-4 minutes the system kept running.
We need to know exactly what was running. It sounds like the draft inducer (the little blower that exhausts the burner byproducts) is running. If this problem just started now while they were roofing then maybe they somehow blocked the chimney or flue.
 
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Old 05-06-13, 10:12 AM
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Does block the exhaust exit cause the furnace to stop functioning? Guess that would be better than it running, and then venting the CO into the attic... (it wasn't, otherwise my CO detectors would be all going off...)

I'm not sure how I can determine exactly what is running. As soon as the thermostat starts, I hear the furnace start up (not the fan)... but no idea what part of the furnace is actually running...
 
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Old 05-06-13, 03:34 PM
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DING DING DING!!!

you guys were right on... it seems the roofers pushed down the exhaust vent and scrunched up the exhaust vent... probably blocking off 2/3 of the air flow. It was causing the unit to overheat and blow the "fuse". All it took was for the guy to open it back up, make sure the exhaust was free and clear and voila... no more over heating.

thanks again for your help guys.
 
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Old 05-06-13, 07:41 PM
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It is alarming that you did not get a pressure switch error code.

Can you see the vent cap? A new cap would be a good idea if they damaged the old one. A partial restriction could cause more lockouts down the road.
 
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