Carrier communicating system fault


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Old 07-05-13, 08:30 PM
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Carrier communicating system fault

Your last post was to say that you would update us. How did those changes work out?

I have similar problem

I have 38tdb
58mvp100

With infinity 3zone dampers and 1 user interface and 2 smart sensors

My heating season is fine. But when it comes to cooling i get intermitant communication adults that seem somewhat irregular and unpredictable.

I have had a Carrie r dealer out 2 times and I asked them to bring a carrier engineer out last summer.

They suggested i run new wire to my ac and re connect all the znes and controls to the control board in a pigtail and one set of wire format

I did. I ran all the smart sensors pigtailed together and into the control board

The furnace and ac I pigtailed together and ran the wire not the control board.
I ran a separate additional wire to the ac, ui, and 1 ss. I did not hook anything up.

The system ran fin the end of last season and well into this cooling season and all through the heating season.

2 weeks ago i had the communication error to outside unit and it couldn't see the unit
I changed the air filter , power cycled ac and furnace and it started up again.

5 days ago i get critical malfunction error and it can't see the outside ac.

This time I change the ac to zone control board wire.

Through this process I reset the ui to factory and it restarted up.

I then programmed my zones and set the heating and cooling to efficiency.

After a couple hours i got the same issue error. Cant see outside ac and the outside tempos not displayed.

I didn't spend much more time on it but I was in communication with the carrier tech and he said to out a 120ohm resistor between A and B on the ac unit abcd bus.

This didn't resolve it.

The wire I ran was approx 30-40' 18 gauge solid copper to the ac from zine control board. The wire does pass through the same hold as the electrical does formthemfurnace and it is 18guage unshelled.
When I return home Sunday I will wire the ui straight into the ac to see if I can jump start it again.

The carrier tech says the boards either fail or work they aren't intermitant like this and he is convinced it is a wire issue.

Any thoughts?
 
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Old 07-06-13, 08:23 AM
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We had one which gave us a lot of trouble with "communication faults" until I found a connection to the air handler in the main circuit panel to be not as tight as it should have been. Since that connection was tightened (6 months or more ago) there have been no problems.
 
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Old 07-06-13, 11:01 AM
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Thanks Grady. When u say air handler do you mean ac unit or. Oil in furnace? Also is the. On net ion the ac board zone board furnace e board or air cooling coil board if there is such a thing?
 
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Old 07-06-13, 02:24 PM
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Today, 02:01 PM
coxwain
Thanks Grady. When u say air handler do you mean ac unit or ac coil in furnace? Also is the. Is main circut board On zone control board, the ac board zone board furnace board or air cooling coil board if there is such a thing?


Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/ne...#ixzz2YIpplux5
 
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Old 07-07-13, 07:20 AM
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The system I was working on was a heat pump (single zone). With your system, being multi-zone, there are so many potential sources of trouble I wouldn't know where to start other than replacing all of the control wiring with shielded cable & tightening every single line voltage connection from the circuit breaker panel thru the final connections at the furnace & outdoor unit. I am not at all a fan of either zoning a forced air system or communicating thermostats/equipment.
 
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Old 07-07-13, 09:10 PM
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Grady. Don't you think it's funny that only in the cool g season i have the problem?
 
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Old 07-08-13, 08:48 AM
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To keep people informed of some of the things I have done to fix this problem of communication fault

Changed thermostat wire with 18 gauge 5 wire unshielded thermostat wire.
Pigtailed 3 zone controllers ui,ss,ss into zone board

Pigtailed furnace and ac into zne board

This lasted almost as year but failed a couple. Months into the cooling season

I justed hooked up the ui directly to the ac, piggyback n existing wire back to the furnace. This brought the unit back to life and allowed it to run fine for a couple house so I decided to move the ui controller back into the house. But one other thing i did is change the ui wire to the zone control board. Then turned the system back on. I didn't have to reinstall anything. It has been working for an 1 hour or so.

The ui wire seemed tight and they used bent Nails to hold it in. So no harm in replacing it.

So lets see how the day plays out.

Other things i did today was reset the ground wires in the power boxes and on the ac case but I still had a fail right after I restarted it.

I hope it was the ui wire to the zone board but I can't understand why it would work fine through 8 months of heating and fair after a couple of months of cooling to the ac only.

Does it make sense that the ui wire is the trouble.?

My gut tells me there is a glitch in the ac board that get reset when u connect the ui to the ac board directly.

I suspect I wnt see a problem till next summer or right away.
 
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Old 07-08-13, 02:37 PM
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Your problems are the very reason I despise communicating systems....
 
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Old 07-08-13, 04:25 PM
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Lol. Yep sure enough 2.5 hours later. Same issues.

Shielded thermostat wire next? I can't even find a place that sells it. Etobicoke, Ontario
 
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Old 07-09-13, 06:52 PM
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The fact it only happens during cooling leads me to believe there's a problem with the condenser. I know I sound like a broken record, but I'd bet dollars to donuts the problem is a line voltage, rather than low (control) voltage problem.

I worked with an electrician for a while who insisted on connecting voltage critical loads as near to the main breaker (usually at the top of the panel) as possible.

There is only one electrical supply house in my area which has shielded cable. Strangely enough none of the HVAC supply houses carry it but they love to sell equipment whose manufacturer specs such.
 
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Old 07-10-13, 04:09 AM
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Supply Line voltage to the outdoor ac unit?

The unit actually is the top left 1st breaker 30 amp. 240 volt. And it is only 10 from the hydro panel maybe 12-14' of wire away from the hydro panel.


The one thing that I have always wondered is if my house is grounded properly.

I have a 8guage or whatever the grounding cable is that has to go to my main water supply line which is probably 15' away from the panel as we have poly water lines The main supply has copper. But even then it goes another 10' or so inside concrete befor it connects with earth ground.


I have thought i should pound a earth ground right through the concrete floor in below the panel but it seems like overkill.

I have had other strange electrical problems but I have nothing else concrete to say that there were grounding problems. I'm not even sure i would know how to check to see if the line voltage or grounding is the issue.

I have tried to run the ac with only it turned on in the whole house. But no difference.

Funny thing, I was away last weekend and I circuit breaker off the ac unit and left furnace on. When I came back the furnace was detecting the outside temp from the ac control. Whenever the ac fails i can't see the outside temp but I never get an outside temp sensor error.

I connected my ui directly to the outdoor ac unit yesterday and it only ran for an hour or so till I got the communication error with the ac unit.

I'm a wits end and my kids are chiming home today from being away. The wife will shoot me if I don't have the ac running.
 
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Old 07-10-13, 06:43 PM
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I believe that temp sensor is powered from the furnace. If you are not comfortable opening the panel to check the wire connections to the breakers for the A/C, you can call an electrician. It's even possible the breaker itself may not be making good connection to the buss bars in the panel. If you call an electrician, get him to check all the connections from the panel all the way to & including the unit. It's possible I'm barking up the wrong tree but after that incident I encountered 6+ months ago, finding what I found, & having not a single "communication fault" since ...
 
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Old 07-11-13, 05:29 AM
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I have no problem going not the panel and have done so. I have tightened the contacts. I wonder if the breaker could be bad but it seems to give off the 240 v without any trouble.

I'm not sure how I could check the breaker or the reliability of the power feed to the outdoor ac unit?
 
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Old 07-11-13, 04:07 PM
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As far as checking the breaker itself, I don't know how you'd check it other than to replace & see if the problem goes away (I doubt it). I presume you've checked all the connections in the disconnect box near the A/C unit & they are all clean & tight.

At this point I'm at a loss, short of using the shielded thermostat cable.
You might want to check with a local alarm company as a possible source for the shielded cable. The smallest amount I could find online was either a 250 or 500 foot roll. I think that's a bit more than you need.
 
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Old 07-11-13, 05:50 PM
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Intermittent Communication Failures

Hello - New to the board but, have been tracking/hoping Coxwain's problem would be solved so I knew where to go. My unit, a 2009 installation: 25HNA936A with an air handler/fan unit: FE4ANB006T, no furnace or other devices.

I have two units so I was able to rule out a bad thermostat using the other unit to troubleshoot.

This communication fault was a real pain in the ass, the unit would function (run normally) a few times a day but, when it faulted it showed a "Sensor Fault" and no temperature reading on the thermostat, and of course communication failure/faults. The flashing code was a "16" on both fan unit and outdoor units. The photo I attached doesn't show the indoor unit fault - it was on a previous screen.

When the technician pulled the thermostat com connection block lose from the outdoor unit circuit card the indoor fault didn't show as an "Active" fault any longer. So he focused on outdoor unit, resistance on A to B and C to D pins were out of spec. Installed new circuit card, unit is working again. Of course, he also retightened all com wires in both units.

Hope you figure your malfunctions out soon
 
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Old 07-11-13, 07:16 PM
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Thanks for sharing your solution.

I tried again to attach the ui thermostat directly to the outdoor ac unit and I wasn't able to establish a connection.

I then decided to pull the smart sensors for the basement and second floor and jus t have the remote sensor for the basement and i disconnected the 2nd floor damper. This still didnt revive the. Outdoor connecting to ac.

I called toro ram electric and asked for shielded cable and we started talking and he said just take tin foil and wrap it around then thermostat wire wherever there is a power wire crossing or near the thermostat wire. Since I have the mail 240v and thermostat wire going through the same hole i would give it a try.

So now the system is working. I don't feel that thesis the reason it is Workng but will explain later. After approx 6 hours, I reconnected the 2nd floor SS and damper, it still working. If it is still working tomorrow am I will add the basement ss as well.

Now the reason I don't think the tin foil is the reason it is fixed is because the temperature has dropped significantly 71f and humidity is way down. Down from 88f and 55-70%humidity.

Humidity now is under 50%. But why would the temperature outside fix it?
 
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Old 07-12-13, 05:58 AM
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Update. System worked thought night so I powered off the furnace and added the ss to zone 3. Then I lost the ac unit Next I removed the ss from zone 3 and still couldn't get ac back. Then removed ss from zone 3 and zone 2 Now I got ac back. Got error because of not sensor for zne 2 so I added the ss back and it seems to be working.

Tonight , if still working i will swap ss zone 2 for 3 and see if there is an error in the stat.

I hope it is the wire to zone 3 but that is the shortest most direct route to the zone board. But I haven't changed that wire so I hoe that is it.

Here are control summary.
Ui---zone board zone1
Ss-zone board zne 2
Zne sensor r temperature sensor -control board zone 3
 
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Old 07-13-13, 03:59 AM
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Update.
All equipment is working now
Ui
Ss
Ss+rs

I did a little more applying aluminum foil to the power wires that were close to the thermostat wire but I think it has more to do with the lower temperature we are having now. Outside temp is 64 now.

I am going to clear all faults to see if the error returns as the start of next week is expected to be hot. Also it is running in comfort zone not economy, not sure if that was an issue as well.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 05:15 AM
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As suspected, yesterday morning the system malfunction appeared. Communication fault.
Temperature rose to 90degrees yesterday. One of the hotest days. Humidity was high as well. I could not get it to start back up.

I'm not sure why higher temps would mess with it.

A service technician as well as a carrier rep will be out on Wednesday this week. I suspect a board replacement will happen.

System can't see the outdoor unit.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 02:02 PM
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Hotest days of the summer here. Carrier won't be here til Wednesday. How can I bypass the infinity zone control and hook up a traditional controller thermostat?

Need help ASAP. We are melting
 
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Old 07-15-13, 04:56 PM
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I dont think you can because of the zoning system........ I hate communicating systems.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 04:58 PM
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I would bypass the zone system. Not use it. I think u need a 2 stage thermostat
 
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Old 07-15-13, 05:01 PM
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if bypassing the zone system.... all your zone dampers would have to be normally open.... are they?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 05:04 PM
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The main and 2 d floor should. Be. I just need some cooling. I. An get then open if I have to
 
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Old 07-15-13, 05:52 PM
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It looks like your HP is a single stage unit therefore a simple single stage heat pump thermostat will work.

Remove communicating wiring by unplugging the ABCD connection on the control board in the furnace and the HP.

connections are as follows:

Thermostat = Furnace = HP
R = R = R
C = C = C (thermostat may be battery operated and not require a C connection)
O = - = O
Y = Y/Y2 = Y
G = G = -

This will provide cooling only and not provide any kind of heat
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:05 PM
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Furnace is 58mvp100
Air conditioner 38tdb.
I bought a 2 stage thermostat, would have preferred a single stage as they are less than have the price .

I think the furnace is variable speed?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:09 PM
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sorry, wait. I used the original post thinking that it was your info.

(THIS IS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO HAVE YOUR OWN THREAD!!!!)

Let me look up your info and I will be starting your own thread for you.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:15 PM
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I have the following connections on the Honeywell rth7500 stat
C
G
Y
W
Rc
R
W2
Y2
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:21 PM
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Thermostat = Furnace = AC
R = R = R
C = C = C
Y1 = Y1 = Y1
Y2 = Y/Y2 = Y2
G = G = -
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:22 PM
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So a single stage thermostat will do the job?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:29 PM
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This is your very own thread now!
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:29 PM
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So a single stage stat would work?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:30 PM
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NO, it should be a 2 stage.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:32 PM
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Thanks.
I have a Y and a Y2 on my Honeywell stat
Is y1 =y n the stat?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 06:38 PM
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Yes. That is correct........
 
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Old 07-15-13, 07:03 PM
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Furnace has these connectors
W2
Y1
Dhum
G
Com 24v. I assume that is C as previously noted
W/w1
Y/y2
R

So that looks okay?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 07:11 PM
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Yes. Those connections I listed will five you cooling only.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 07:40 PM
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Furnace blower doesn't seem to be turning on. Should I change any of the dip switches on the furnace?
 
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Old 07-15-13, 07:45 PM
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It may not turn on immediately... but should take no longer than 1 min. Check your manual for dip switch settings.
 
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Old 07-15-13, 07:58 PM
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Okay. It's working. How do I close the main floor damper so the cooling is forced to the 2nd floor?
 
 

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