thermocouple for williams wall furnace


  #1  
Old 12-16-13, 08:12 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
thermocouple for williams wall furnace

Hi all,
Looking on how to find replacement part for my Williams Gravity Direct Vent Wall Furnace...Model 3003622.
Looking for thermocouple for this unit.
Online searches haven't worked out so far. It seems hard to even identify the part.
Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 12-16-13, 11:13 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,277
Upvotes: 0
Received 3 Upvotes on 3 Posts
From what I see you have a pilot generator, not a thermocouple. Why do you think it needs replacing?
 
  #3  
Old 12-16-13, 01:47 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 62,087
Received 3,422 Upvotes on 3,068 Posts
Right... a pilot generator. In the parts listing it looks like it's not replaced separately but part of the pilot assembly.

Check generator with a millivolt meter. Take reading at generator terminals of valve with pilot burning and thermostat contacts closed. The reading should be 140 millivolts or more.

In the following link..... if you look 3/4 of the way down the page you'll see "Download the Direct-Vent installation & Owners Manual." There is a whole diagnostic section in there.

Comfort Gurus: Williams 3003622 - 30,000 BTU Direct-Vent Wall Furnace
 
  #4  
Old 12-16-13, 03:40 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
themocouple

Thanks PJmax and mbk3 for the replies.

I know slightly more than nothing about gas furnaces...but here goes

The Williams wall furnace, haven't been able to get the pilot lit.
Had a handyman friend of a friend come and try to get it going. He seems to have some knowledge of gas furnaces. So anyways, it was him who made the diagnosis of a faulty thermocouple.
I think the pilot light was able to get lit with some work, but would not stay lit.
I'm pretty handy around the house and with electric/electronics.

Would it be something I could do to figure out if it really is the thermocouple?

My friend never used an ohmmeter/voltmeter to come up with a faulty thermocouple.
He also said that the part is not available, which I thought was strange since I see that HD still sells this furnace.
He was also wrong about what was wrong with our main furnace (short cycling), so not sure how good he is at this stuff.

IN the meantime I'll download that manual from the link you provided PJMax and see if it can shed some light on anything.
 
  #5  
Old 12-16-13, 05:18 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 62,087
Received 3,422 Upvotes on 3,068 Posts
You don't have a thermo couple.... it's called a pilot generator. It sits in the flame and produces a very low voltage to operate the gas valve. It's critical that the pilot be operating correctly or it won't produce enough voltage to open the gas valve. This is designed this way as a safety system.

It sounds like you need to address the weak pilot issue first. It may be a clogged orifice or a spider web blocking off the gas flow.
 
  #6  
Old 12-18-13, 06:59 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
So I paid for a visit from a local heating crew to come inspect my furnace.

They told me my weak pilot light can only be fixed by replacing the part.
I'm fine with that, except that the manufacturer says they don't supply parts for this furnace any more...based on the serial number.

That's fine with me too, as long as my proposed solution works...
Sears advertises they have a replacement part that works.
the diagram they show and the part looks exactly the same, but the drawings are very vague, can't find any real measurements.
Williams replacement part is P322399. Sears says their part is a replacement for my model number, but they identify it a replacement for P322398, which according to Williams manual is not for my exact model.
Any thoughts?
 
  #7  
Old 12-18-13, 11:15 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 62,087
Received 3,422 Upvotes on 3,068 Posts
Maybe one is natural gas and one is propane ?

I looked at comfort guru's and it looks like they have the part.

Comfort Gurus: Williams P322399 - Pilot Assembly LP
 
  #8  
Old 12-19-13, 01:48 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,277
Upvotes: 0
Received 3 Upvotes on 3 Posts
Might be right and left versions
 
  #9  
Old 12-19-13, 02:18 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Not sure what to make of all these different part numbers.
P322399 is the part number, but I have a natural gas furnace not LP.

To confuse matters even more...I found one online manual from Williams that says P322398, and another that says 322399.
 
  #10  
Old 12-19-13, 04:40 PM
T
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 264
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hi Jenine! You should go to the main page and start a new thread for this so that others can see your problem. From afar, it sounds like a pressure switch that's acting up. As I said, from afar. Start your own thread and you will get other opinions.
 
  #11  
Old 02-07-14, 05:06 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pilot does stay lit

Ok so I thought I would tackle this furnace again.

I managed to get the pilot light to stay on.

Thought my problems were over, but now the furnace won't actually turn on.

When lighting the pilot, I never did put the thermostat to lowest position or turn off electricity. Would that be a reason for the furnace not actually turning on?
The thermostat does close when I turn it up, but not sure how to actually jump this thermostat. There are only two wires.

There is also a blower which doesn't turn on either.

Thanks everyone!
 
  #12  
Old 02-07-14, 05:14 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
voltage at generator terminal

just checked the voltage across the generator terminals and i believe it's around 220 mV DC.

Also tried relighting the pilot with thermostat off/power off.
Still not working.
 

Last edited by punjiman; 02-07-14 at 05:51 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-07-14, 06:16 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,667
Received 39 Upvotes on 37 Posts
This may be a long shot but when you re-lit the pilot, did you put the knob on the gas valve back to its "on" positon rather than "pilot"?
 
  #14  
Old 02-07-14, 06:41 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 62,087
Received 3,422 Upvotes on 3,068 Posts
just checked the voltage across the generator terminals and i believe it's around 220 mV DC
Check that again with the thermostat closed. You need to measure better than 140mv.



 
  #15  
Old 02-07-14, 09:25 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks Grady. Yup, switch was in ON position both times.

Thanks PJMax. So I just measured again. Got 170 in the closed and 225 in the open.
 
  #16  
Old 02-08-14, 05:52 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Well I've tried to figure out how to clean the burner orifices but it seems like a bit too much for a guy with no experience/knowledge of gas furnaces.

Anything else I can do to troubleshoot this thing?

Thanks for the help.
 
  #17  
Old 02-08-14, 06:05 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,667
Received 39 Upvotes on 37 Posts
If you are willing, this might be worth a try: Shut off the gas. Disconnect the pilot tube. Use your canned air to blow up thru the pilot tube & pilot assembly. Reconnect the pilot tube, turn on the gas, light the pilot, & try the furnace. We might get lucky & you blow some junk out of the pilot assembly creating a stronger pilot & more voltage.
 
Madrilenyo voted this post useful.
  #18  
Old 02-08-14, 06:39 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Yup I think I'm capable of doing that. Going to go out and get a can of air now and try that.
So I'm assuming that there's not enough voltage at the terminals?
Should I also try re-positioning the pilot light and generator?
Thanks again.
 
  #19  
Old 02-08-14, 07:02 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,667
Received 39 Upvotes on 37 Posts
The pilot flame should wrap at least the top 1/3 of the generator. I don't know if it is a voltage issue or not but kicking it up a bit can't hurt. Can you get any numbers off the gas valve?
 
  #20  
Old 02-08-14, 07:10 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
As in part number?
If you meant voltage then I just rechecked, and got 175 closed, 225 open.
I apologize in advance if I sound like an idiot, not being quite sure what you meant by numbers!
 

Last edited by punjiman; 02-08-14 at 08:06 PM.
  #21  
Old 02-09-14, 07:55 AM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,667
Received 39 Upvotes on 37 Posts
Sorry for the confusing question. I meant part number or any specifications which may be printed on the body of the gas valve.
 
  #22  
Old 02-09-14, 12:54 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Ahhh well the part number is a whole other issue in itself (see earlier posts in this thread).

Chamberlain doesn't make that part anymore, for my serial number, even though the model itself is still being produced (Home Depot).
Sears states they have a replacement part for that particular part number, but they say it's for an LP furnace, whereas mine is natural gas.
Calling Chamberlain was of no help, as they stated they don't provide support for that particular serial number for my model.
 
  #23  
Old 02-09-14, 03:16 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,277
Upvotes: 0
Received 3 Upvotes on 3 Posts
Williams used two types of pilot generators. A PG-9 or G-250, are you able to post a picture of the pilot assembly?
 
  #24  
Old 02-09-14, 08:07 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
So I went in to take another look at noticed something I thought was odd.

The pilot light is aimed towards the back, yet the pilot generator is to the right of the pilot light.

Shouldn't the pilot light be pointing towards the generator?

I tried to rotate the light but couldn't figure out how.

I tried to get the generator a little bit more snug also, but now the voltage has dropped a little :-(
 
  #25  
Old 02-09-14, 08:29 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the info mbk3.

I've attached some pics. Hope it helps give you an idea of what I might need.

I also noticed the flame is too yellow?
 
Attached Images      
  #26  
Old 02-10-14, 11:46 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Woohoo! Thanks for the tip Grady. Got the main furnace to light.
Now it seems the blower won't turn on!
 
  #27  
Old 02-10-14, 11:57 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Woohoo again!
The casing over the furnace wasn't placed properly and was preventing blower fan from turning.
Thanks for all the help guys ( sorry and girls too if applicable)!
 
  #28  
Old 02-10-14, 05:10 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,667
Received 39 Upvotes on 37 Posts
Sounds like we got us a happy camper.

Glad we could help. Sometimes it's the simplest of things to fix a seemingly major problem.

Just curious: What do you have for voltage now?
 
  #29  
Old 02-10-14, 05:27 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
It was a whopping 340mV!!
 
  #30  
Old 02-10-14, 05:48 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,277
Upvotes: 0
Received 3 Upvotes on 3 Posts
The pilot still needs cleaning, did you notice the yellow flame?
 
  #31  
Old 02-10-14, 07:00 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,667
Received 39 Upvotes on 37 Posts
I agree. The pilot looks a bit lazy too.
 
  #32  
Old 02-11-14, 02:46 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks Grady and mbk3.
After cleaning out the assembly, the pilot is now all blue.

Curious though...I had a general handyman type guy look at this furnace, and a qualified gas repairman...both who said it needs a new assembly.
Am I missing something? Why is it working just after being cleaned out, if they told me I need new parts. They didn't even try and clean it.

Thanks.
 
  #33  
Old 02-11-14, 01:05 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,277
Upvotes: 0
Received 3 Upvotes on 3 Posts
Sounds like you ran into "parts changers" not techs. Millivolt systems can be the most difficult to troubleshoot if you lack experience with them. When taking MV reads they are never the same, that's why you must know the values of each style of pilot generator and the requirements needed to operate properly. I have worked on many thousands of millivolt systems in my years at a utility. My route contained mostly wall and floor furnaces, so I'm no stranger to these systems. Remember your meter is your best friend.
Good job, you got it going.
 
Madrilenyo voted this post useful.
  #34  
Old 02-11-14, 04:45 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks mbk3.
What a great feeling to make something work again!
Something you've probably experienced thousands of times!!
 
  #35  
Old 01-03-15, 03:21 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 62,087
Received 3,422 Upvotes on 3,068 Posts
This thread is available in our searchable archives. If you have a problem with your appliance.... please feel free to start a new thread.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: