Carrier Furnace: Need to Move a Concentric Vent


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Old 04-03-14, 01:58 PM
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Carrier Furnace: Need to Move a Concentric Vent

Hi, I have a Carrier Model 58MVP in which I need to move my concentric vent to a different location. Currently it is vented straight out of the side of my deck at 12" above the ground level. It's been this way since it was installed back in 1999. When it snows heavy in my area (average every 3 - 4 years) it will cover the vent causing the furnace to shut down. Of course, I always keep this area clear as possible. I also get condensation dripping causing ice build up. It can and has been a problem for me due to spending time away from home for extended periods. Due to the layout of the house/basement this was the best place to run the vent. I do have a brick chimney which has two separate tiled vents used for a natural fireplace and hot water heater. I would like to swap out my HWH and use the chimney for the furnace. Is there a way I could utilize my chimney? If so, please let me know. Your help would be most appreciated. Thanks, Ray
 
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Old 04-03-14, 05:46 PM
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If there is nothing else going into the chimney flue it could be used as a chase for the furnace pipes.
 
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Old 04-03-14, 07:40 PM
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Thanks for the reply....... Could you please elaborate? Thanks, Ray
 
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Old 04-04-14, 06:04 AM
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I have another question; Is it normal for a horizontal Concentric Vent to condensate to the point of causing a drip? If so, what would happen to the moister/condensation if I ran the vent vertically? Thanks again for your help, Ray
 
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Old 04-04-14, 06:20 PM
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It is normal for the vent to drip. In the case of vertical venting the condensate would run back to the furnace as most of it does now.

IF the flue is large enough you can run PVC pipes up & out the chimney then seal the chimney top. It's isn't as easy as it sounds but it can be done. I doubt very seriously the flue is large enough for a concentric so you would have to use two separate pipes.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:58 AM
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Awesome... The first thing I'll check out is the brick chimney. Hopefully there is enough room. Thanks for all your help. Ray
 
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Old 04-05-14, 06:57 PM
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Before you get started, check the venting section of the installation manual for your furnace. It will tell you the various restrictions such as pipe size, how far horizontal, & how much vertical you can have as well as how many elbows, etc.
 
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Old 04-09-14, 05:43 AM
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Thanks for the reply...... Checked out the chimney opening which appears to be plenty big enough as long as I can use a sweep elbows to enter it from the basement. That will be the biggest challange. Also, if I go this route, I'll have to relocate my hot water heater, but reventing that would be less challanging. Running through the chimney will take 5 or 6 elbows with 6 being the maximum. As for running up and through my garage, the same amount of elbows. According to my furnace manual with my unit size, I can use up to six 90 degree elbows with the maximum of 70 feet using 2" pvc. My run in either case above would be close to 50 feet. Due to being 20 feet less than the maximum run, I'm not sure if more than 6 elbows could be used. Thanks again for your help and input. Ray
 
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Old 04-09-14, 06:06 PM
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It has been my experience when going over about 25-30 feet, you are best off going to 3". Please keep in mind that experience was not with Carrier equipment but nearly everything else. Long radius (sweep) ells are what is supposed to be used in any vent system.
 
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Old 04-10-14, 04:45 AM
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Definately agree, I will use sweep 90's....... Thanks, Ray
 
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Old 06-11-14, 01:00 PM
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Hi, It's been a while....... I made a decision for location, but I still need some expert advice...Please....... I am going to remove the existing concentric vent that is terminating out of my deck header band/skirting. I'd like to add, my pipe is all 2". In return, I want to do a side wall termination with both pipes terminating side by side at the same location elbowing up. This will place the venting far away from any windows, shrubs, etc.. I can easily mount both pipes to my railing along with possibly boxing the lower portion of it in for aesthetic purposes. Currently it is terminated at approx. 12" above the ground. I would like to elbow up approx. 24" for my combustion air with the elbow facing down 180 degrees. I would place my vent above that at the minimum of 12" that's required with a 90degree elbow. With that being said, my combustion air pipe would be 36" from ground level, leaving my vent at 48" above ground level.

Now...... I need your help.
1) Does this sound like it would do the trick?
2) The manual talks about insulation on page 30 (link below). This manual is slightly different than mine possibly due to being updated. My manual shows unit size as 060-14 instead of 060. Also, my manuals chart starts out indicating at -20 the insulation would be 0 at 9' with 3/8" at 23'. The manual (link below) shows with no insulation up to 20'. With that being said, my total length under my deck from the house with the added termination of 36" planned gives me a total of 22'. I'd like to add, My deck is completely closed in to the ground with only a few vents in the header band for air movement. Whewww....... Now the question; Would you suggest insulating the termination or not? If so, what would you use?
http://dms.hvacpartners.com/docs/100...58MVP-15SI.pdf
3) I don't see any reason why I should buy a 2" kit other than making sure my termination has some type of screen on it. Usually kits are waaay overpriced compared to purchasing the pipe and elbows needed. I've done a ton of pvc work, but I never have seen a fitting with a screen, have you? If so, please explain.

I thank all of you for your time and bearing with me. I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate all your help..... You folks make this forum awesome. Thanks again, Ray
 
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Old 06-12-14, 04:24 PM
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I would insulate & suggest something like Isul-Tube or Arma-Flex (sp? on both products). Those types of insulation are better suited for outdoor use as opposed to the semi-rigid water pipe insulation. I would also suggest not less than 1/2" wall thickness. It can be painted for additional UV resitance if you so desire.

Regarding the "screen": It is usually simply a piece of stainless steel hardware cloth cut in a circle to fit snugly in a PVC fitting. Sometimes this "screen" is a perforated plastic disk inserted either at the intake point at the furnace or at the termination.

I suggest you check local codes which may pertain to venting the furnace that close to the deck. They might require 'X' feet away or 'X' feet above the deck.
 
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Old 06-12-14, 06:18 PM
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Thanks for the help.... I'm wondering if a screen will restrict any of the airflow needed. I would imagine that you wouldn't want it to be too fine of one. I know that it doesn't take much restriction to shut the furnace down due to lack of air flow. As for condensation, should the horizontal pipe be ran on a slight angle for the furnace collector box to handle or isn't it a big issue? Thanks again for your help, I sincerely appreciate it. Ray
 
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Old 06-13-14, 02:25 PM
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The screen is actually hardware cloth (AKA rat wire) with aprox. 1/4" squares.

You definately want some upslope from the furnace at a rate of 1/4" rise or more per foot of run.
 
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Old 06-13-14, 03:42 PM
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Hi, Thanks again for the help. I will try to find the screen with 1/4" holes. Maybe something a little more rigid than the cloth would be good. What do you think of placing a threaded pvc cap on for holding it in place? Thanks again, I appreciate your help. Ray
 
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Old 06-13-14, 03:59 PM
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Hardware cloth is not actually cloth, it's wire sometimes called "rat wire". The material furnace manufacturers supply with the equipment is usually stainless steel but I doubt you will find stainless at your local hardware or home supply store. You can use galvanized but it won't last long.
 
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Old 06-15-14, 05:41 AM
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Hi, I found a thin stainless floor drain cover with 1/4" holes in it at my local Menards store. They also have 2" female pvc sch. 40 floor drain covers with the same type of screen. This would work great on a street 90. Thanks again for all your help, Ray
 
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Old 06-16-14, 03:52 PM
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I'm also trying to find what type of strap is used for attaching the termination. Is there a specific type of strap used for siding, etc.? Thanks again, Ray
 
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Old 06-16-14, 05:19 PM
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Usually the piping outside of the house is not attached to the house.
 
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Old 06-16-14, 08:35 PM
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Sounds good....Thanks again for all your help. Ray
 
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Old 06-17-14, 12:01 PM
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FYI: I don't know if Carrier allows it or not but I never use cellular core pipe. Always use pressure rated PVC pipe. If I remember correctly, it has red lettering whereas the foam core's lettering is black.
 
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Old 06-17-14, 03:56 PM
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Will do.... You're right the solid core pipe does have red lettering, plus a little heavier than the foam core. Thanks again, Ray
 
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Old 08-13-14, 06:04 AM
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Hi, It's been a while, but I am going to install the pipe this week. I have decided to terminate both pipes at my sidewall on the house. I will need to elbow up thru my deck. The pipe will be 8' away from any side windows with no windows above due to the house being a single story with the closest steps being 12' away. My pipe length from the furnace to the outside wall is approx. 12' which would in return give me less than a 20' run in total including the termination. Installing it in this manner eliminates around 20' of added pipe that's currently ran under the deck.
I do have a question; I can't find anywhere in my manual that I should install a screen on the termination pipes. I want to and have the supplies to do so, but I don't want the screen itself to restrict air flow causing the possibility of the furnace shutting down. A screen definitely would eliminate the possibility of any critters/debris getting in the pipe. What's your suggestion? Thanks for all the great help....... Ray
 
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Old 08-13-14, 04:15 PM
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If you mean something like window screen, don't do it. You will create too much restriction. What is normally used is stainless steel hardware cloth (AKA rat wire) with 1/4 to 1/2" square openings.
 
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Old 08-15-14, 01:46 PM
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Hi, The screen is thin rigid stainless steel with 1/4" holes in it. It's 3" screwed on a 2" pvc female adapter that's usually used for a floor drain. It should finish it off quite nicely in appearance. Thanks, Ray
 
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Old 08-15-14, 02:04 PM
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If it is what I picture in my mind's eye, there might not be enough free area. Each hole is only going to give you about 1/20 sq. in. opening. A 2" pipe would be a little over 3 sq. in.
 
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Old 08-16-14, 08:20 PM
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The pipe I'm running is 2"...... I thought that a screen with 1/4" holes would be sufficient as you stated. I won't glue the coupling with the screen until I try it out. Thanks, Ray
 
 

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