Burnham V3 Boiler
#1
09-08-14, 08:37 AM
Burnham V3 Boiler
Good morning, we are looking into the National Grid energy incentive program in order to update our newly purchased 1950's home. The boiler guy gave us a quote on a Burnham V3 boiler and all associated controls of $5500. I am trying to find some info on this FHW oil boiler, but for some reason, I am having no luck. In looking at the current generation Burnham model numbers on the US Boiler website, it looks like they are at V8 for the model number.
Does this mean the guy is trying to sell me an 5 generation OLD boiler???
Thanks in advance
Josh
Does this mean the guy is trying to sell me an 5 generation OLD boiler???
Thanks in advance
Josh
#3
09-10-14, 09:16 AM
Avoid Burnham at all costs. I've swapped out more Burnhams that are around 5 years old than I can count. The casting is cheap. They don't last. There is a warranty on the block but you will still be paying parts and labor when it leaks. If you need a tank less go with a Weil McLain gold or a peerless wbv series.
#4
09-10-14, 10:55 AM
Yes, i'm sure on what they quoted. No, I am not sure he didn't make a typo or something like that. I suppose I should call and verify this is what he meant....
When you say years, how many years are you talking about?
When you say years, how many years are you talking about?
#5
09-10-14, 01:37 PM
Super Moderator
Avoid Burnham at all costs. I've swapped out more Burnhams that are around 5 years old than I can count. The casting is cheap. They don't last.
Can you state facts on the issues you had with burnhams that are around 5 years old?
I dont what to get off topic but for the sake of the OP burnhams are one of the best. This is due to push nipple design.. ( I am still sevicing many many burnhams that are 40 years old plus in certain retirment communitys in my area. These homes built in the 70's. Boiler and water heater commonly installed in the garage in these homes)
If anything, and reason why they failed was most likely due to installation error for what ever reason. You can state your opinion but please give facts..
There will be no company bashing on this site.. Please read the rules and policys..
On the other thing weil mclains use Elastomer Sealing Rings. These often fail from extreme temperature fluctuations. These are the least expensive boilers to install that contractors buy to make a profit. This is a guy talking with 30 plus years experience and what I have seen in the field..
In my area anyone plumbers that install the weils are considered newbies in the industry and you are doing your customers an injustice and not giving them thier options....
Now back to topic...
Yes, i'm sure on what they quoted. No, I am not sure he didn't make a typo or something like that. I suppose I should call and verify this is what he meant....
Also tell us how many sq ft is the home?
Last tell us what type of heat emmiters you have... Radiators? Baseboard...? etc.
These are the only 3 oil boilers Burnham offers..
Residential Hydronic Heating Products | U.S. Boiler Company
#6
09-10-14, 05:35 PM
Thanks for the good info lawrosa.
Answers to your questions:
1. I didn't get a chance to call him today but I have the quote and it clearly says Burnham V-3 (85% efficient) on it and he also verbally told me that on the phone before the quote came in writing. I will call tomorrow and report back...
2. 1150 sq ft 1.5 story cape, 3bd/1.5 bath
3. Mix of cast iron baseboard and newer standard baseboard
Answers to your questions:
1. I didn't get a chance to call him today but I have the quote and it clearly says Burnham V-3 (85% efficient) on it and he also verbally told me that on the phone before the quote came in writing. I will call tomorrow and report back...
2. 1150 sq ft 1.5 story cape, 3bd/1.5 bath
3. Mix of cast iron baseboard and newer standard baseboard
Last edited by lawrosa; 09-10-14 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Removed pics of quotes... Original archived.
#7
09-10-14, 08:07 PM
Super Moderator
He probably means the V8 in the 3 version, which is the smallest...
There are two models in that size... Find out if this is the model and also ask what version..
Should be the smaller BTU unit with your size home..
V8H3S see here.
https://file.ac/CIFu2LNv7sk/v8h-product-data-sheet.pdf
After you find out that can you take a pic of your current boiler? We would like to see if there is a boiler bypass there which is needed since you have cast radiators...
Ask the man if he is installing a boiler bypass while your on the phone with him..
Then post back...
There are two models in that size... Find out if this is the model and also ask what version..
Should be the smaller BTU unit with your size home..
V8H3S see here.
https://file.ac/CIFu2LNv7sk/v8h-product-data-sheet.pdf
After you find out that can you take a pic of your current boiler? We would like to see if there is a boiler bypass there which is needed since you have cast radiators...
Ask the man if he is installing a boiler bypass while your on the phone with him..
Then post back...
#8
09-10-14, 08:16 PM
Super Moderator
jdumont. I removed the quotes as it had the companies name on the invoice...
Not important to post the actual invoice, but as I stated a call to them should fix the confusion...
Not important to post the actual invoice, but as I stated a call to them should fix the confusion...
#9
09-11-14, 06:44 PM
Ok, I have some answers and pictures.
The boiler to be installed is indeed a Burnham V8H3W. Quote also says draft regulator, back flow preventer, mixing valve, low water cut off, ball valves, iso valves, and circulator. Nothing about a boiler bypass.
I have attached a pic of the cast baseboards that I have and a few of the current boiler.
I do have one of the old school steam looking stand up radiators in the upstairs bathroom that was converted to run water through it.
The boiler to be installed is indeed a Burnham V8H3W. Quote also says draft regulator, back flow preventer, mixing valve, low water cut off, ball valves, iso valves, and circulator. Nothing about a boiler bypass.
I have attached a pic of the cast baseboards that I have and a few of the current boiler.
I do have one of the old school steam looking stand up radiators in the upstairs bathroom that was converted to run water through it.
#10
09-11-14, 07:01 PM
Super Moderator
hmmmm... What about that expansion tank in the ceiling? Is that getting replaced with a bladder type tank?
I think you need some type of boiler protection. A bypass should be installed...
Do you make hot water from the boiler I assume and an indirect is going to be intalled>>
I would hold up until you can get your ducks in a row..And we can guide you better..
Is that the only quote you got?
I think you need some type of boiler protection. A bypass should be installed...
Do you make hot water from the boiler I assume and an indirect is going to be intalled>>
I would hold up until you can get your ducks in a row..And we can guide you better..
Is that the only quote you got?
#11
09-11-14, 07:13 PM
Super Moderator
The burnham MPO is a 3 pass design and $300 buck cheaper.. Its 20k btu smaller too. The V8 is a bit too big IMO..
MPO-IQ115 - Burnham MPO-IQ115 - MPO-IQ Series 85,000 BTU Output Oil Fired High Efficiency 3-Pass Boiler
Also for get the tankless coil. Thats the worst way to heat water. may as well boil water in a kettle..
What are your electric rates?
You should consider electric hot water heater or a suporstor contender indirct IMO..
The indirect can be had for $700 bucks..
Superstor Contender, SSC-35, Glass Lined Indirect Water Heater
SuperStor Contender Indirect Water Heater
As I said I would wait before you pull the trigger with that guy..
You want to save oil right?
Wait for trooper and the other oil guys to chime in somemore..
Oh and what the matter with the boiler you have? Or how much rebate are you getting? Is there a link to this program?
MPO-IQ115 - Burnham MPO-IQ115 - MPO-IQ Series 85,000 BTU Output Oil Fired High Efficiency 3-Pass Boiler
Also for get the tankless coil. Thats the worst way to heat water. may as well boil water in a kettle..
What are your electric rates?
You should consider electric hot water heater or a suporstor contender indirct IMO..
The indirect can be had for $700 bucks..
Superstor Contender, SSC-35, Glass Lined Indirect Water Heater
SuperStor Contender Indirect Water Heater
As I said I would wait before you pull the trigger with that guy..
You want to save oil right?
Wait for trooper and the other oil guys to chime in somemore..
Oh and what the matter with the boiler you have? Or how much rebate are you getting? Is there a link to this program?
#12
09-11-14, 07:21 PM
Super Moderator
The national grid in RI is only for natural gas customers...
https://www1.nationalgridus.com/HeatRI-RI-RES
Can you explain what rebate you may be getting?
https://www1.nationalgridus.com/HeatRI-RI-RES
Can you explain what rebate you may be getting?
#13
09-12-14, 04:11 AM
Thanks for the info again.
We are going MegaStor indirect, 40 gal.
When he came out to do the initial walk through, I asked about the expansion tank and he was like, oh yea, that will have to be replaced too. Ill make sure that gets installed.
The current boiler works, but is 60+ years old and I can only assume is not nearly as efficient as a new would be. We are not getting a rebate on the boiler itself, but we are also getting the home insulated as part of this and that is heavily rebated, and then 0% financing for the whole package - boiler included.
We are going MegaStor indirect, 40 gal.
When he came out to do the initial walk through, I asked about the expansion tank and he was like, oh yea, that will have to be replaced too. Ill make sure that gets installed.
The current boiler works, but is 60+ years old and I can only assume is not nearly as efficient as a new would be. We are not getting a rebate on the boiler itself, but we are also getting the home insulated as part of this and that is heavily rebated, and then 0% financing for the whole package - boiler included.
#14
09-12-14, 05:44 AM
Super Moderator
So I guess you are already getting it installed? So suggestions here are a mute point then????
Ill say this then..
The MPO burnham is a 3 pass design and be will be more eff then the V8. If its cheaper why would you put the V8 in??? Also the MPO you can add outdorr reset for added saving..
Take a look and ask your contractor..
MPO-IQ Oil Fired High Efficiency Water Boiler | U.S. Boiler Company
Next the mega store looks like an ok indirect. The reason we suggest the supor stors are because they only require a 53k boiler input. The mega stor from crown in the same 40 gallon version needs 102k btu. Therfore the the supor stor will heat the water faster and be more eff and save you $$$.. Its a no brainer
suporstor.
SuperStor Contender Glass Lined Indirect Water Heater - Literature - HTP
Mega stor crown boiler
Mega-Stor - Vertical
Last this is the most important.. With cast iron baseboard you are subject to cold returns This can and probably will cause condensation issues. A boiler bypass of some sort should be installed. If your guy dont know about boiler protection then you should discuss this with him. Or find another installers. I would have got more quotes.
That big old boiler holds lots of water. The new one will not. Your radiation will probably have more water in it then the boiler.
Essentially if you have condensation issues with the new boiler, it can turn into a paper weight in a very short time..
read boiler protection here.
Bypass_Piping_Explaination
Bypass Piping
When installing a cast iron or steel boiler we need to protect the boiler if any of the following applications. If any of the following conditions do exist, the potential of premature boiler failure may occur due to thermal stress or corrosion from flue gas condensation (sweating).
1. When the boiler is smaller than the amount of radiation in the system.
2. When there is any cast iron radiation in the system.
3. If there is any radiant in floor heat in the system.
4. When the return water is cool enough to cause the boiler to condense and corrode.
5. If the water temperature in the boiler cannot get to an average boiler temperature of 140ºf in a reasonable amount of time.
If the boiler is installed in one of the above applications boiler protection should be considered here are two types of bypass piping. We have two very different bypasses, a boiler bypass and a system bypass. There are two basic types of bypass piping. They are boiler bypass and system bypass. Boiler bypass keeps the system flow rate higher than a system bypass. The advantage to keeping the system flow rate higher is better heat output from the radiation at any given water temperature and better air elimination. In other words speed the water up get more heat and slow the water down get less heat.
Well that's all I have to say.. Good luck with the install.. Hopefully others will chime in....
Ill say this then..
The MPO burnham is a 3 pass design and be will be more eff then the V8. If its cheaper why would you put the V8 in??? Also the MPO you can add outdorr reset for added saving..
Take a look and ask your contractor..
MPO-IQ Oil Fired High Efficiency Water Boiler | U.S. Boiler Company
Next the mega store looks like an ok indirect. The reason we suggest the supor stors are because they only require a 53k boiler input. The mega stor from crown in the same 40 gallon version needs 102k btu. Therfore the the supor stor will heat the water faster and be more eff and save you $$$.. Its a no brainer
suporstor.
SuperStor Contender Glass Lined Indirect Water Heater - Literature - HTP
Mega stor crown boiler
Mega-Stor - Vertical
Last this is the most important.. With cast iron baseboard you are subject to cold returns This can and probably will cause condensation issues. A boiler bypass of some sort should be installed. If your guy dont know about boiler protection then you should discuss this with him. Or find another installers. I would have got more quotes. That big old boiler holds lots of water. The new one will not. Your radiation will probably have more water in it then the boiler.
Essentially if you have condensation issues with the new boiler, it can turn into a paper weight in a very short time..
read boiler protection here.
Bypass_Piping_Explaination
Bypass Piping
When installing a cast iron or steel boiler we need to protect the boiler if any of the following applications. If any of the following conditions do exist, the potential of premature boiler failure may occur due to thermal stress or corrosion from flue gas condensation (sweating).
1. When the boiler is smaller than the amount of radiation in the system.
2. When there is any cast iron radiation in the system.
3. If there is any radiant in floor heat in the system.
4. When the return water is cool enough to cause the boiler to condense and corrode.
5. If the water temperature in the boiler cannot get to an average boiler temperature of 140ºf in a reasonable amount of time.
If the boiler is installed in one of the above applications boiler protection should be considered here are two types of bypass piping. We have two very different bypasses, a boiler bypass and a system bypass. There are two basic types of bypass piping. They are boiler bypass and system bypass. Boiler bypass keeps the system flow rate higher than a system bypass. The advantage to keeping the system flow rate higher is better heat output from the radiation at any given water temperature and better air elimination. In other words speed the water up get more heat and slow the water down get less heat.
Well that's all I have to say.. Good luck with the install.. Hopefully others will chime in....
