Rheem - Model #: RRGG-05N31JKR - Furnace Problem
#1
09-26-14, 02:09 PM
Rheem - Model #: RRGG-05N31JKR - Furnace Problem
Hello,
Following behavior occurs when the furnace turns on:
The blower starts immediately when in HEAT position. (No time to make the fire process first before blower starts).
I am not sure if it depends on the unit and is it normal that the blower starts immediately in Heat position?
Warm air is coming out for approx. 5 minutes, then I can hear that the compressor??? (also the big fan on the top of the unit) starts running (as when it were in A/C mode), so suddenly the warm air turns to room temperature air with no heat although the heater is still running and there is fire in the unit. You can feel the heat through the inducer motor coming out on top of the unit .
I also recently replaced the blower relay and the FCC. See attached pics.
What do you think what that problem could be?
Thanks for your help.
Following behavior occurs when the furnace turns on:
The blower starts immediately when in HEAT position. (No time to make the fire process first before blower starts).
I am not sure if it depends on the unit and is it normal that the blower starts immediately in Heat position?
Warm air is coming out for approx. 5 minutes, then I can hear that the compressor??? (also the big fan on the top of the unit) starts running (as when it were in A/C mode), so suddenly the warm air turns to room temperature air with no heat although the heater is still running and there is fire in the unit. You can feel the heat through the inducer motor coming out on top of the unit .
I also recently replaced the blower relay and the FCC. See attached pics.
What do you think what that problem could be?
Thanks for your help.
#2
09-26-14, 05:41 PM
Group Moderator
It sounds to me like a thermostat problem if the furnace and the A/C are coming on at the same time.
#3
09-26-14, 07:59 PM
When the service panel is off, I have noticed that the Roll-Out Switch is tripping.
I have to push the button, so the heater can start working.
Is the Roll-Out Switch tripping because the service panel is off?
I have to push the button, so the heater can start working.
Is the Roll-Out Switch tripping because the service panel is off?
#4
09-26-14, 08:04 PM
Group Moderator
No... the roll out switch is tripping because you either have a clogged exhaust vent or possibly a cracked heat exchanger.
I'm not the pro on that unit.... let Houston or Grady, the forum pros, add their opinion.
I'm not the pro on that unit.... let Houston or Grady, the forum pros, add their opinion.
#5
09-26-14, 08:40 PM
It sounds to me like a thermostat problem if the furnace and the A/C are coming on at the same time.
Why is that?
#6
09-26-14, 08:46 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Did this problem start immediately after replacing the control board?
Have you changed any other parts since last winter? (like a thermostat)
Have you changed any other parts since last winter? (like a thermostat)
#7
09-26-14, 09:08 PM
Did this problem start immediately after replacing the control board?
Have you changed any other parts since last winter? (like a thermostat)
Have you changed any other parts since last winter? (like a thermostat)
I replaced the blower relay and the FCC.
#8
09-26-14, 09:22 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
How old is your thermostat?
Do you see any pinched or cut thermostat wires at the unit?
Disconnecting the stat wires at the unit and jumping R to W would help prove the stat wire and thermostat.
That fan limit looks new, It would not explain the AC starting but a model number for it might help with the instant fan operation in heat mode if the problem persists with the R to W test.
Do you see any pinched or cut thermostat wires at the unit?
Disconnecting the stat wires at the unit and jumping R to W would help prove the stat wire and thermostat.
That fan limit looks new, It would not explain the AC starting but a model number for it might help with the instant fan operation in heat mode if the problem persists with the R to W test.
#9
09-26-14, 09:45 PM
How old is your thermostat?
Do you see any pinched or cut thermostat wires at the unit?
Disconnecting the stat wires at the unit and jumping R to W would help prove the stat wire and thermostat.
That fan limit looks new, It would not explain the AC starting but a model number for it might help with the instant fan operation in heat mode if the problem persists with the R to W test.
#10
09-26-14, 10:26 PM
Group Moderator
Your looking for the main thermostat cable. It will probably have a brown jacket and multiple colored wires contained within. You could expect to see at least red, white, green, yellow. You could also see blue, brown, etc.
This cable probably enters into that rats nest of wiring in your picture. Each thermostat wire would be wirenutted to a wire in the unit.
We need you to disconnect the thermostat wires from the unit. Be sure to take pictures or tag the wires as it's easy to lose track of the colors. When everything is disconnected.... connect the white and red wire (the unit wires-not the t'stat wires) together. The heat should come on and run normally. Let us know what happens.
To add to Houstons question....
Did this problem start immediately after replacing the FCC and the relay ?
This cable probably enters into that rats nest of wiring in your picture. Each thermostat wire would be wirenutted to a wire in the unit.
We need you to disconnect the thermostat wires from the unit. Be sure to take pictures or tag the wires as it's easy to lose track of the colors. When everything is disconnected.... connect the white and red wire (the unit wires-not the t'stat wires) together. The heat should come on and run normally. Let us know what happens.
To add to Houstons question....
Did this problem start immediately after replacing the FCC and the relay ?
#13
09-27-14, 11:10 AM
Has the brass jumper on the Fan Limit been removed?
What thermostat did you install?
Did this problem start immediately after replacing the FCC and the relay ?
We decided to replace the blower relay and the FCC. Now in A/C mode, the blower is working normally and the blower stops running when in OFF position.
The problem is the strange behavior in HEAT mode as I described in the fist post. Also, the blower continues to run in HEAT mode for approx. 10 minutes when in OFF position.
#14
09-27-14, 12:01 PM
Group Moderator
The wires in question would be red, green, yellow and white. There is also a blue in the same cable but it's not being used.
#15
09-27-14, 12:05 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Do you have a legible wiring diagram on the inside of the panel that you removed to get that picture?
Looks like you have a brown wire connected at the unit. If it comes from your stat wire, is the other end taped off?
Looks like you have a brown wire connected at the unit. If it comes from your stat wire, is the other end taped off?
#17
09-27-14, 04:21 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Write down your existing stat wire to unit wire combination and unwire them (with the breaker or service disconnect turned off)
Wire nut the unit R to W and restore power.
Wire nut the unit R to W and restore power.
#18
09-29-14, 08:57 AM
I connected R and W without the thermostat (see attached photos). The heater operates normally, so the compressor does not come on anymore.
As soon as I connect R and W and G and Y to the thermostat, the heater runs normally for the first 5 minutes and then the compressor does come on, so as a result there is no more hot air coming out after 5 minutes.
It means to me HEAT and A/C come on at the same time when all 4 wires connected to the thermostat. Am I right?
I believe the thermostat is the problem. What do you guys think?
As soon as I connect R and W and G and Y to the thermostat, the heater runs normally for the first 5 minutes and then the compressor does come on, so as a result there is no more hot air coming out after 5 minutes.
It means to me HEAT and A/C come on at the same time when all 4 wires connected to the thermostat. Am I right?
I believe the thermostat is the problem. What do you guys think?
#19
09-29-14, 04:47 PM
Rheem - RRGG-05N31JKR - Forced Draft Relay (FDR)
Can someone tell me what is the part number for a Forced Draft Relay (FDR) or compatible relay on a Rheem - RRGG-05N31JKR unit?
Thanks
Thanks
#20
09-29-14, 04:59 PM
Group Moderator
Would that be the induced draft relay or the main blower relay ?
Many are part of a board and are not replaceable.
What problem are you having ?
Many are part of a board and are not replaceable.
What problem are you having ?
#22
09-29-14, 06:22 PM
Group Moderator
THX..... not sure why you started a second thread on this unit.
Where are we going with this relay issue ?
The reason it takes five minutes for the A/C compressor to start after the heat starts is because there is a five minute compressor delay board in the system. It would appear that the thermostat has a problem.
Where are we going with this relay issue ?
The reason it takes five minutes for the A/C compressor to start after the heat starts is because there is a five minute compressor delay board in the system. It would appear that the thermostat has a problem.
#23
09-29-14, 07:23 PM
I would like to check the induced draft relay. If the relay is bad it seems possible that it is letting the a/c and furnace low voltage connections power up at the same time.
#24
09-29-14, 07:31 PM
Group Moderator
I can't find the parts listing for your unit. Houston may have a better idea.
That relay isn't part of the A/C wiring loop.
I thought you tested the furnace by connecting R and W and all was ok ?
That relay isn't part of the A/C wiring loop.
I thought you tested the furnace by connecting R and W and all was ok ?
#25
09-29-14, 07:49 PM
I thought you tested the furnace by connecting R and W and all was ok ?
The blue wire goes to the a/c contactor on the schematic.
How sure is it now that the problem is coming from the thermostat?
Last edited by thxbest; 09-29-14 at 08:32 PM.
#28
10-01-14, 12:24 AM
Group Moderator
#30
10-02-14, 01:54 PM
Group Moderator
Have you tried running the A/C and see it the heat comes on ?
Be sure to wait the 5 minutes.
If it isn't the thermostat then the next logical idea is that there is a pinch in the cable or a fastener (nail-staple) thru the wire. We'll know better when you try the test above.
Be sure to wait the 5 minutes.
If it isn't the thermostat then the next logical idea is that there is a pinch in the cable or a fastener (nail-staple) thru the wire. We'll know better when you try the test above.
#31
10-02-14, 10:51 PM
Have you tried running the A/C and see it the heat comes on ?
After 5 minutes running in A/C mode, the compressor comes on.
#32
10-03-14, 04:20 PM
If you jumpered R and W and it worked fine then you hooked your wires up and it screwed up, your problem is your tstat or tstat wire. Replace the stat, if it doesn't work, replace the wire.
#33
10-03-14, 04:57 PM
Group Moderator
#35
10-03-14, 06:37 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
I'm confident that you can remove the FDR from the unit and get a part number from the side but I don't see that it it has the ability to send 24 volts to the heating circuit unless it is provided to it from the black/white wire from your thermostat.
When the FDR fails the forced draft motor will always have power or not get power when it should.
You really need a volt meter.
Terminal 3 on the FDR is 24 volt common.
I'd unwire the white wire from the stat and measure for 24 volts between the stat "W" wire and common and then the black/white wire to common with a cooling demand present.
When the FDR fails the forced draft motor will always have power or not get power when it should.
You really need a volt meter.
Terminal 3 on the FDR is 24 volt common.
I'd unwire the white wire from the stat and measure for 24 volts between the stat "W" wire and common and then the black/white wire to common with a cooling demand present.
#36
10-03-14, 09:14 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
I don't see that the common side of the transformer is grounded.
Is the orange wire touching the body of the unit in this pic?
Is the orange wire touching the body of the unit in this pic?
#37
10-04-14, 11:42 AM
Is the orange wire touching the body of the unit in this pic?
I have removed the black wire with white strip going to W thermostat. The furnace will still run in COOL mode.
But if I remove the black wire from the FCC terminal 1 that goes to the fan and limit control (FCC) the A/C works properly and the furnace does not come on.
When I remove the gray wire on blower relay terminal 1, only the inducer motor starts.
The only number on the FDR is on the back as shown in the photo.
See attached pictures.
Last edited by thxbest; 10-04-14 at 12:29 PM.
#38
10-05-14, 10:26 AM
Member
I'm confident that you can remove the FDR from the unit and get a part number from the side but I don't see that it it has the ability to send 24 volts to the heating circuit unless it is provided to it from the black/white wire from your thermostat.
When the FDR fails the forced draft motor will always have power or not get power when it should.
When the FDR fails the forced draft motor will always have power or not get power when it should.
Of course, a person can see how the inducer would get voltage if the contact between FDR(2) and FDR(4) stuck closed. Without 24V to the coil from thermostat (W) how does the 24V go through the FCC, through the roll-out switch and then to the ignition module?
OP stated he removes the black/white wire and the furnace still operates while 'stat set to COOL.
#39
10-05-14, 11:24 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
A short in the wiring to the body of the unit could complete a circuit since the 24 volt common wire is not grounded at the transformer.
We can prove it is the relay and not the wiring by unplugging these wires with the red check and blue check at the relay one at a time.
