Rheem - Model #: RRGG-05N31JKR - Furnace Problem


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Old 09-26-14, 02:09 PM
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Rheem - Model #: RRGG-05N31JKR - Furnace Problem

Hello,

Following behavior occurs when the furnace turns on:

The blower starts immediately when in HEAT position. (No time to make the fire process first before blower starts).
I am not sure if it depends on the unit and is it normal that the blower starts immediately in Heat position?

Warm air is coming out for approx. 5 minutes, then I can hear that the compressor??? (also the big fan on the top of the unit) starts running (as when it were in A/C mode), so suddenly the warm air turns to room temperature air with no heat although the heater is still running and there is fire in the unit. You can feel the heat through the inducer motor coming out on top of the unit .

I also recently replaced the blower relay and the FCC. See attached pics.

What do you think what that problem could be?

Thanks for your help.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 05:41 PM
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It sounds to me like a thermostat problem if the furnace and the A/C are coming on at the same time.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 07:59 PM
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When the service panel is off, I have noticed that the Roll-Out Switch is tripping.

I have to push the button, so the heater can start working.

Is the Roll-Out Switch tripping because the service panel is off?
 
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Old 09-26-14, 08:04 PM
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No... the roll out switch is tripping because you either have a clogged exhaust vent or possibly a cracked heat exchanger.

I'm not the pro on that unit.... let Houston or Grady, the forum pros, add their opinion.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 08:40 PM
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It sounds to me like a thermostat problem if the furnace and the A/C are coming on at the same time.
They are not coming at the same time. The furnace is working for the first 5 minutes and then the compressor turns on, so the air coming out is not hot anymore.

Why is that?
 
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Old 09-26-14, 08:46 PM
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Did this problem start immediately after replacing the control board?
Have you changed any other parts since last winter? (like a thermostat)
 
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Old 09-26-14, 09:08 PM
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Did this problem start immediately after replacing the control board?
Have you changed any other parts since last winter? (like a thermostat)
There is no control board. The unit is 20+ years old.

I replaced the blower relay and the FCC.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 09:22 PM
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How old is your thermostat?

Do you see any pinched or cut thermostat wires at the unit?

Disconnecting the stat wires at the unit and jumping R to W would help prove the stat wire and thermostat.


That fan limit looks new, It would not explain the AC starting but a model number for it might help with the instant fan operation in heat mode if the problem persists with the R to W test.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 09:45 PM
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How old is your thermostat?
It is one year old.

Do you see any pinched or cut thermostat wires at the unit?
No. They are all connected.

Disconnecting the stat wires at the unit and jumping R to W would help prove the stat wire and thermostat.
Where are the stat wires at the unit?

That fan limit looks new, It would not explain the AC starting but a model number for it might help with the instant fan operation in heat mode if the problem persists with the R to W test.
The fan limit model: HONEYWELL L4064B 2228
 
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Old 09-26-14, 10:26 PM
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Your looking for the main thermostat cable. It will probably have a brown jacket and multiple colored wires contained within. You could expect to see at least red, white, green, yellow. You could also see blue, brown, etc.

This cable probably enters into that rats nest of wiring in your picture. Each thermostat wire would be wirenutted to a wire in the unit.

We need you to disconnect the thermostat wires from the unit. Be sure to take pictures or tag the wires as it's easy to lose track of the colors. When everything is disconnected.... connect the white and red wire (the unit wires-not the t'stat wires) together. The heat should come on and run normally. Let us know what happens.

To add to Houstons question....
Did this problem start immediately after replacing the FCC and the relay ?
 
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Old 09-26-14, 10:28 PM
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Post a closer picture of this area.

What thermostat did you install?
 
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Old 09-27-14, 07:56 AM
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Has the brass jumper on the Fan Limit been removed?

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Old 09-27-14, 11:10 AM
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Has the brass jumper on the Fan Limit been removed?
Yes.

What thermostat did you install?
ritetemp Model 6020


Did this problem start immediately after replacing the FCC and the relay ?
We had the problem with bad FCC, so the blower could not shut off when thermostat was in OFF position. It continued to tun.

We decided to replace the blower relay and the FCC. Now in A/C mode, the blower is working normally and the blower stops running when in OFF position.

The problem is the strange behavior in HEAT mode as I described in the fist post. Also, the blower continues to run in HEAT mode for approx. 10 minutes when in OFF position.
 
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Old 09-27-14, 12:01 PM
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The wires in question would be red, green, yellow and white. There is also a blue in the same cable but it's not being used.
 
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Old 09-27-14, 12:05 PM
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Do you have a legible wiring diagram on the inside of the panel that you removed to get that picture?

Looks like you have a brown wire connected at the unit. If it comes from your stat wire, is the other end taped off?
 
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Old 09-27-14, 01:59 PM
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Here is the schematic for the unit.
 
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Old 09-27-14, 04:21 PM
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Write down your existing stat wire to unit wire combination and unwire them (with the breaker or service disconnect turned off)
Wire nut the unit R to W and restore power.
 
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Old 09-29-14, 08:57 AM
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I connected R and W without the thermostat (see attached photos). The heater operates normally, so the compressor does not come on anymore.

As soon as I connect R and W and G and Y to the thermostat, the heater runs normally for the first 5 minutes and then the compressor does come on, so as a result there is no more hot air coming out after 5 minutes.

It means to me HEAT and A/C come on at the same time when all 4 wires connected to the thermostat. Am I right?

I believe the thermostat is the problem. What do you guys think?
 
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Old 09-29-14, 04:47 PM
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Rheem - RRGG-05N31JKR - Forced Draft Relay (FDR)

Can someone tell me what is the part number for a Forced Draft Relay (FDR) or compatible relay on a Rheem - RRGG-05N31JKR unit?

Thanks
 
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Old 09-29-14, 04:59 PM
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Would that be the induced draft relay or the main blower relay ?

Many are part of a board and are not replaceable.
What problem are you having ?
 
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Old 09-29-14, 05:19 PM
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There are 2 relays in the wiring compartment. One is the blower relay. I need the part number for the other relay. It should be the induced draft relay.
 
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Old 09-29-14, 06:22 PM
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THX..... not sure why you started a second thread on this unit.
Where are we going with this relay issue ?


The reason it takes five minutes for the A/C compressor to start after the heat starts is because there is a five minute compressor delay board in the system. It would appear that the thermostat has a problem.
 
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Old 09-29-14, 07:23 PM
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I would like to check the induced draft relay. If the relay is bad it seems possible that it is letting the a/c and furnace low voltage connections power up at the same time.
 
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Old 09-29-14, 07:31 PM
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I can't find the parts listing for your unit. Houston may have a better idea.
That relay isn't part of the A/C wiring loop.

I thought you tested the furnace by connecting R and W and all was ok ?
 
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Old 09-29-14, 07:49 PM
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I thought you tested the furnace by connecting R and W and all was ok ?
Yes. I attached photos and described the behavior in post #18.

The blue wire goes to the a/c contactor on the schematic.

How sure is it now that the problem is coming from the thermostat?
 
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Last edited by thxbest; 09-29-14 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 09-30-14, 04:49 AM
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Did you wait over 5 minutes with the stat bypassed?
 
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Old 09-30-14, 11:41 AM
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Did you wait over 5 minutes with the stat bypassed?
Yes. I did and the a/c compressor did not come on.
 
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Old 10-01-14, 12:24 AM
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Then it sounds like it's new thermostat time.
 
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Old 10-02-14, 01:05 PM
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We have installed a new thermostat. The problem persists.
 
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Old 10-02-14, 01:54 PM
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Have you tried running the A/C and see it the heat comes on ?
Be sure to wait the 5 minutes.

If it isn't the thermostat then the next logical idea is that there is a pinch in the cable or a fastener (nail-staple) thru the wire. We'll know better when you try the test above.
 
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Old 10-02-14, 10:51 PM
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Have you tried running the A/C and see it the heat comes on ?
The thermostat set COOL, the furnace starts working immediately. It doesn't matter in HEAT or A/C mode. The furnace turns on immediately in both modes.

After 5 minutes running in A/C mode, the compressor comes on.
 
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Old 10-03-14, 04:20 PM
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If you jumpered R and W and it worked fine then you hooked your wires up and it screwed up, your problem is your tstat or tstat wire. Replace the stat, if it doesn't work, replace the wire.
 
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Old 10-03-14, 04:57 PM
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Mab... did you read post #29 ?
 
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Old 10-03-14, 05:18 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something. Thought I read that it worked with the jumper.
 
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Old 10-03-14, 06:37 PM
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I'm confident that you can remove the FDR from the unit and get a part number from the side but I don't see that it it has the ability to send 24 volts to the heating circuit unless it is provided to it from the black/white wire from your thermostat.

When the FDR fails the forced draft motor will always have power or not get power when it should.

You really need a volt meter.

Terminal 3 on the FDR is 24 volt common.

I'd unwire the white wire from the stat and measure for 24 volts between the stat "W" wire and common and then the black/white wire to common with a cooling demand present.


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Old 10-03-14, 09:14 PM
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I don't see that the common side of the transformer is grounded.

Is the orange wire touching the body of the unit in this pic?

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Old 10-04-14, 11:42 AM
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Is the orange wire touching the body of the unit in this pic?
No.

I have removed the black wire with white strip going to W thermostat. The furnace will still run in COOL mode.

But if I remove the black wire from the FCC terminal 1 that goes to the fan and limit control (FCC) the A/C works properly and the furnace does not come on.

When I remove the gray wire on blower relay terminal 1, only the inducer motor starts.

The only number on the FDR is on the back as shown in the photo.

See attached pictures.
 
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Last edited by thxbest; 10-04-14 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 10-05-14, 10:26 AM
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I'm confident that you can remove the FDR from the unit and get a part number from the side but I don't see that it it has the ability to send 24 volts to the heating circuit unless it is provided to it from the black/white wire from your thermostat.

When the FDR fails the forced draft motor will always have power or not get power when it should.
Following the schematic Houston204 posted, I can't figure out if the FDR fails how voltage gets to the inducer to start up and close the centrifugal switch AND send 24V through the FCC to the ignition module without an input from the black/white wire from the thermostat.

Of course, a person can see how the inducer would get voltage if the contact between FDR(2) and FDR(4) stuck closed. Without 24V to the coil from thermostat (W) how does the 24V go through the FCC, through the roll-out switch and then to the ignition module?

OP stated he removes the black/white wire and the furnace still operates while 'stat set to COOL.
 
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Old 10-05-14, 11:24 AM
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A short in the wiring to the body of the unit could complete a circuit since the 24 volt common wire is not grounded at the transformer.

We can prove it is the relay and not the wiring by unplugging these wires with the red check and blue check at the relay one at a time.
 
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Old 10-05-14, 11:37 AM
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It is just a standard spst relay with a 24 volt coil.

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