Wall Mount Gas Heater Hookup
#1
11-26-14, 07:18 AM
Wall Mount Gas Heater Hookup
I just purchased a 30,000 BTU wall mount gas furnace and will be mounting it in my dining room and connecting it to my two 100lb LP tanks located on the opposite wall (outside) about 25 feet away. The tanks currently supply a gas range and there is a Tee with shutoff valve jn the basement ceiling directly below. Question is, can I snake a flexible gas line across the basement ceiling and up to the dining room to the heater or do I need to use rigid pipe? I'm not a plumber, but I know how to plumb more or less. Is this a project I can safely tackle myself or is it best to contract it out to a professional? I'm pretty confident I can do it myself but have never installed a gas appliance before.
#2
11-26-14, 08:17 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
#1, A licensed plumber with a gas license or the gas company should be doing this.
Not only for safety reasons but so the correct size supply lines are used all the way back to the tank as well as sizing the regulator.
Done wrong and your going to have incomplete combustion at the heater.
Also may want to consider a larger tank.
I had one of those heaters, heating a small 800 sq. foot house with a 100 gal. tank and was always running out of gas.
Not only for safety reasons but so the correct size supply lines are used all the way back to the tank as well as sizing the regulator.
Done wrong and your going to have incomplete combustion at the heater.
Also may want to consider a larger tank.
I had one of those heaters, heating a small 800 sq. foot house with a 100 gal. tank and was always running out of gas.
#3
11-22-15, 03:21 PM
I finally got my wall heate. hooked up this weekend. Everything was working great for a few hours, then the problems started. The heater has a thermostat and it was currently off (pilot on only). I turned the dial up, heard a click, and smelled gas, but the burner didn't light immediately like it did earlier. A few seconds later and poof! Flames jumped out a foot at me then the burner lit. I let it run for a while, turned the t-stat down to turn it off, which it did, then turned the t-stat up again and the same thing happened. Once it was running for a while, it seemed to get better. I then turned the heater off for the night. This morning, I turned it on and the same thing happened. I actually blew on the pilot this time to force the flame closer to the burner and it lit right away. It was running fine, and was cycling on its own. Next thing I know, it's making fluttering noises and the flame is mostly yellow. I turned it off then back on and the fluttering stopped. However, the flame appeared weaker than usual. It also smells quite a bit when it's running, like carbon monoxide. The company that installed the heater ran a 1/2" OD copper line to about three feet within the heater then 3/8" the remainder of the way. The manual says to use 1/2" the whole way. I mentioned this to the installer and he said he measured the pressure and that it wa adequate (12" of WC). However, I'm wondering if even though the pressure is adequate, that the gas flow isn't. I also have a gas range connected to the same line and it works fine. The range is five feet.from the tank and the heater is 20 feet, if that makes a difference. Any ideas? Heater is a 30,000 btu made by Pro Com. Oh yeah, the pilot went out later after that as well.
Last edited by mossman; 11-22-15 at 03:38 PM.
#4
11-22-15, 03:44 PM
Group Moderator
It sounds like a gas pressure problem. The pressure needs to be checked at the test port on the gas valve of the heater.
#5
11-22-15, 03:51 PM
It started fluttering again while I was posting my previous message. Not sure this video is going to post:
View My Video
View My Video
#6
11-22-15, 03:56 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
>
I agree.
A possible cause of such a problem would be a propane tank that is too small.
Propane has to boil into a gas before it can be used. A heavy demand for gas on a small tank causes the gas to boil, and to cool off until the liquid is too cold to boil. A small tank and cool winter temperatures means the tank can't absorb enough heat to boil the propane into a gas ---- result --- declining gas pressure.
Do the burners at the range also show a declining gas input? That add support to a gas pressure problem as the cause.
Could be something else, of course.
I agree.
A possible cause of such a problem would be a propane tank that is too small.
Propane has to boil into a gas before it can be used. A heavy demand for gas on a small tank causes the gas to boil, and to cool off until the liquid is too cold to boil. A small tank and cool winter temperatures means the tank can't absorb enough heat to boil the propane into a gas ---- result --- declining gas pressure.
Do the burners at the range also show a declining gas input? That add support to a gas pressure problem as the cause.
Could be something else, of course.
#7
11-22-15, 04:08 PM
The cooktop is fine. All four burners on full blast, nice strong blue flame, no sputtering, even with the wall heater on. I currently have two 100# cylinders connected, which are more than half full. The gas company is coming tomorrow to replace them with a single 420#/120 gallon tank. The manual says a 100# cylinder is the minimum. I found a table for copper line size for 11" WC, and what he ran is fine for 30,000 btu. Manual calls for 11" to 14" of WC, and I believe he said he set it to 12". He seems to think something could be wrong with the regulator on the heater. Regardless, he's coming back out Wednesday morning to check it out. Curious as to why it worked fine for a few hours, then started acting up. Perhaps I should clean out the pilot and burner. It's been sitting outside the box for a few months.
BTW, he didn't install a test port near the gas inlet. Is this okay? How is he going to measure the pressure? Disconnect one of the fittings and measure it? Should I have him install one?
BTW, he didn't install a test port near the gas inlet. Is this okay? How is he going to measure the pressure? Disconnect one of the fittings and measure it? Should I have him install one?
Last edited by mossman; 11-22-15 at 04:27 PM.
#8
11-22-15, 04:41 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
>
Your video doesn't work for me.
This is called "delayed ignition." The burners need to light promptly after the main burner gas turns on, or you can get an exciting "boom"!
Don't allow the delayed ignition to happen repeatedly ---you might damage something. You should have your hand on the electric gas valve gas control and turn it to the pilot position if the main burners don't light right away. (Don't ask a gas repairman how he knows this!)
Poor gas pressure can cause this. A dirty pilot burner can cause this. A pilot burner that isn't aimed properly so that it lights the burner can cause this.
Dirty burners can cause the problem.
The pilot burner should look like a small blowtorch with a blue flame. If it has a yellow tipped flame like a candle, it's dirty and needs to be disassembled and cleaned.
Your video doesn't work for me.
This is called "delayed ignition." The burners need to light promptly after the main burner gas turns on, or you can get an exciting "boom"!
Don't allow the delayed ignition to happen repeatedly ---you might damage something. You should have your hand on the electric gas valve gas control and turn it to the pilot position if the main burners don't light right away. (Don't ask a gas repairman how he knows this!)
Poor gas pressure can cause this. A dirty pilot burner can cause this. A pilot burner that isn't aimed properly so that it lights the burner can cause this.
Dirty burners can cause the problem.
The pilot burner should look like a small blowtorch with a blue flame. If it has a yellow tipped flame like a candle, it's dirty and needs to be disassembled and cleaned.
#9
11-22-15, 04:41 PM
I should also mention that the tanks are connected in series with 1/4" copper line which then connect to a regulator with 1/4" copper in and 1/2" out. Doesn't seem ideal. Maybe the issues will subside once the new tank is installed.
Last edited by mossman; 11-22-15 at 05:34 PM.
#10
11-22-15, 04:46 PM
Pilot is a nice blue flame, over an inch long and 1/4" wide. The installer mentioned trying to aim it closer to the burner, but it doesn't look like that is possible. Plus it worked fine when he was here and only started acting up once I started using it for a longer duration, which makes me think it's a supply/pressure issue. We'll see what happens with the new tank.
What about the smell? It's kind of bad. The cooktop doesn't smell like that even with all the burners on. And it smells even with just the pilot on.
What about the smell? It's kind of bad. The cooktop doesn't smell like that even with all the burners on. And it smells even with just the pilot on.
Last edited by mossman; 11-22-15 at 05:30 PM.
#11
11-22-15, 05:44 PM
Super Moderator
There should be a regulator outside the home somewhere..
But that thestove works fine means thats not the issue with the main reg IMO..
There is a test port on the gas valve.. dynamic and static pressures need to be checked,
).
they measured from where? And when? I doubt it...
I would say gas valve bad or too small a line from where they tapped from... and or size of pipe run...
But that thestove works fine means thats not the issue with the main reg IMO..
There is a test port on the gas valve.. dynamic and static pressures need to be checked,
The company that installed the heater ran a 1/2" OD copper line to about three feet within the heater then 3/8" the remainder of the way. The manual says to use 1/2" the whole way. I mentioned this to the installer and he said he measured the pressure and that it wa adequate (12" of WC
they measured from where? And when? I doubt it...
I would say gas valve bad or too small a line from where they tapped from... and or size of pipe run...
#12
11-22-15, 06:58 PM
I'm gonna guess that he measured the pressure coming out of the outdoor regulator. I don't know for sure. The regulator is shown in the picture I posted in one of my last posts. There is a 1/4" line coming off the nearest tank that goes to a T on the second tank, then a 1/4" line from the T to the regulator (also visible in photo). A 1/2" line connects from the outlet of the regulator to another T about 36" downstream, which branches off into the basement to another T with shutoff. The other outlet of this T leads up through the floor to the gas range. Back outside, the other outlet of the T has a 1/2" copper line that goes around the back of the house (about 20 feet) and is reduced to a 3/8" line. The 3/8" line is about 36" long and connects to the shutoff valve directly beneath the heater. On the other side of the shutout valve is a drip T made from 1/2" iron pipe. So the run starts with 48" of 1/4" pipe, increases to 1/2" pipe for 20 feet, decreases to 3/8" for 36", goes through a 3/8" valve, another 2" section of 3/8" pipe, then connects to the heater through a 1/2" iron pipe. I'm inclined to have him replace all the 3/8" line and valve with 1/2" as stated in the manual. However, it's such a short length that I'm not certain it will make a difference. I also left a note for the gas company to discard the 1/4" line and replace it with 1/2" when they come out tomorrow to place the larger tank.
When you mention bad gas valve, you're referring to the heater's valve right, not the 3/8" shutoff valve he installed?
When you mention bad gas valve, you're referring to the heater's valve right, not the 3/8" shutoff valve he installed?
#13
11-22-15, 07:08 PM
Super Moderator
goes through a 3/8" valve, another 2" section of 3/8" pipe, then connects to the heater through a 1/2" iron pipe. I'm inclined to have him replace all the 3/8" line and valve with 1/2" as stated in the manual.
I also left a note for the gas company to discard the 1/4" line and replace it with 1/2" when they come out tomorrow to place the larger tan
Its not an issue if its before the reg as its high pressure... They probably will not change it and no need to really...
#14
11-22-15, 07:25 PM
I'm guessing that even if he measures at least 11" WC at the valve that it doesn't necessarily mean there is enough gas flow due to the resistance of the smaller diameter pipe. Is this a correct assumption?
#15
11-22-15, 07:32 PM
Super Moderator
I'm guessing that even if he measures at least 11" WC at the valve that it doesn't necessarily mean there is enough gas flow due to the resistance of the smaller diameter pipe. Is this a correct assumption?
All gas valves have a test port
#17
11-23-15, 07:05 AM
And is there an air/fuel mixture adjustment on the burner somewhere? If definitely is not burning efficiently because the exhaust smell is pretty bad, like I'm burning diesel or kerosene. It smells even with just the pilot on. It's not the new heater smell you would expect. Definitely exhaust.
#18
11-23-15, 01:33 PM
I spoke with the manufacturer of the heater and they confirmed that it is definitely a low pressure issue. They said having two tanks supplying the heater is one problem (she didn't explain why--just that it is a problem), and also said that there should be a step down regulator near the appliance since the run is greater than 15 feet (as stated in the manual). I'm going to have the gas company replace the main regulator and install a step down regulator just prior to entering the home. Hopefully that resolves my issues. She also agreed that the strong exhaust smell is due to incomplete combustion as a result of the low pressure.
#19
11-23-15, 02:00 PM
Super Moderator
OK.. Keep us updated..
I cant see how two tanks being an issue..
Usually you have one stepdown regulator to bring the pressure to 11" WC.. Then the gas valves at the appliance takes it from there..
This shows NG testing.. 3.5" WC..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl5qt-FYxNA With gas valve running and looking at the specs on the gas valve in question you should be running at 11:wc or so.. If not then you know the appliance is starving for gas..
Whats it say on the info plate on the gas valve?
And again if your stove runs fine I would say line too small to new applance or faulty gas valve...
I cant see how two tanks being an issue..
Usually you have one stepdown regulator to bring the pressure to 11" WC.. Then the gas valves at the appliance takes it from there..
This shows NG testing.. 3.5" WC..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl5qt-FYxNA With gas valve running and looking at the specs on the gas valve in question you should be running at 11:wc or so.. If not then you know the appliance is starving for gas..
Whats it say on the info plate on the gas valve?
And again if your stove runs fine I would say line too small to new applance or faulty gas valve...
#20
11-23-15, 04:31 PM
You're right, the new tank didn't make any difference. The manual says 11" to 14" of WC. Not sure what the valve says. I don't believe it is adjustable. I'll post back tomorrow night once we hopefully figure out the issue. Would've been the perfect night to use it--it's gonna get down to 23. Oh well, I like it cold at night anyhow.
#21
11-24-15, 03:09 PM
Okay, I believe we have the issue resolved (issues actually). First we checked the pressure at the tank regulator, which was 12". Then we checked it at the inlet to the unit (apparently there is not a test port--at least not one we could find) and it was about 11.7" with the unit off. When the unit was turned on, the pressure dropped to 11", which is the minimum pressure listed on the heater. So we bumped the pressure up to 13.5" and now it drops to 13" when running. After the pressure was good, we were still having issues, so we started looking more closely at the heater. Turns out the pilot was not close enough to the burner, so we bent it towards the burner as far as it woukd go. Still had issues. Then I noticed the orifice and valve were facing downward slightly, so we bent it upward so that now the orifice is centered with the burner. Heater works great now and I'm happy. No more yellow flames, no more delayed igniton! In hindsight, I think the dual tanks and 11" WC was probably okay and that the other two issues were likely the root cause of the main problem.
