Hmm ...Daikin says: if your heat exchanger fails within 6 years we will replace the entire furnace.

Assume that the furnace price is 3500. By my research, the installer charges you at least the price of the product so the cost to install a new one is $1750

Basically this is a trap for the buyer. The Daikin furnaces use a pipe like below for heat exchanger


From what I understand this is new technology and the consumer practically pays the price for testing this.

Ex: if it fails within 6 years you pay 3500+1750=5250 For less than that price you can get another brand with more than 10 years warranty for heat exchanger

Question: assume that the furnace fails. They will replace the furnace completely. What happens with the defective one? What if I want to keep it for parts?? I would dissemble it and store the parts that can be used (ex circuit boards and other smaller but expensive parts).

 

Looks like your picture needs to spin 1/4 turn.
It is unlikely that you would get to keep the old furnace. Diakin will require your installing contractor to return is to get warranty.

 

Possibly.
Then I will have to find out what they charge for replacing a heat exchanger after 6 years.
If that price is lower than the installation of an entire furnace (and it should be) then the whole thing is a well orchestrated rip off

 

I would want to know why did the heat exchanger fail so quickly. Bad ESP, Delta Tee, gas pressure?


We have had problems with Daikin evaporator coils failing after 14 months when the coil only has a 1 years warranty. A 1 year warranty isn't very common these days.


The new models now have a better warranty.

 

The new ones have 12 years parts and labor.

 

It is often faster to replace the entire furnace than the heat exchanger especially if the replacement is the same model furnace. I've changed out entire furnaces in less than 2 hours including start-up testing.

 

I am not discussing the time here but the cost.
I asked one of the installers how much would cost me to install the replacement and he said $1500
WTF! then what is the deal...you give me a new furnace because you sold me a lemon in the first place and now I am paying you to replace the crap that you sold me ? Something is not right in this

 

It's unlikely it was the dealer's fault the heat exchanger failed. He shouldn't have to eat the labor cost of replacing the furnace because of a factory defect. Granted, it doesn't seem right that you should either but that's the way it is in the real world.

 

If you buy a new furnace, make sure it has a manufacturer's parts and labour warranty.

Labour can be more than 50% of the total cost of a repair.

A heat exchanger won't fail in 6 years unless it's abused.

-------------------------
It's not- been around for over 20 years. If it's stainless steel, it will outlast all other heat exchangers.

-------------------------

You sound very picky, and cheap.

 

Cheap no. In fact I selected the most expensive offer from all the offers that I receive and I expect some services when the work is done. You do not get to replace my furnace just because you are one of the very few authorized to do so. I expect you to use the knowledge that you learned when you prepared for your certification. I will make sure that you leave a paper behind with what was measured and configured on my furnace. WTH! If I spend $4000 I expect some paper trail for that, especially when the safety of my house and my family is involved and when the insurance guys are what they are today. If you charge the value of the product to install it then be prepared to assume some responsibilities.

Since when expecting a contractor to do his job properly means picky?
Can you indicate what exactly is picky in your view?
Of course having clients like me is something that a contractor that is in for a quick buck would avoid at any cost and would use words like yours to describe me.

Look at what Grady is saying below. Does that sound right to you? "That is the way the life is (the way it is in the real world) "
Well ...that is for sure not how my life is going to be.

 

I don't like your attitude.

If a furnace is actually defective and needs to be replaced, it's the manufacturer's fault, not the contractor's fault.

The contractor shouldn't have to work for free unless he or she is at fault for the failure.

By buying a parts and labour warranty from the manufacturer, you're forcing the manufacturer to take responsibility and pay up for a defective product. I think manufacturers should by law have to cover the labour needed to repair or replace a defective furnace.

Unfortunately, a class action lawsuit or recall is needed for that.

The warranty is for defects.

 

I don't like your attitude either andhere is why:

-when it comes to furnaces the manufacturer says they don't sell directly to DIYers because they prefer the to have their furnaces installed by pros. And that is because too often (according to them) the furnaces were returned broken or they broke after the installation. All makes sense right?
-so then ONLY A LICENSED GUY CAN INSTALL ANS SELL you a furnace so you take advantage of that and you charge an arm and a leg for that. (and you always charge a bulk amount, never furnace cost+ labor; sent out over 100 emails, everybody who replied did it like that) Probably all sounds fair for you so far, isn't it?
-all of you say that "it is important who installs the furnace" because ONLY A SKILLED etc etc

So after all the above you would like to have no skin in the game right. Nope, that is not going to happen, at least in my case. If you charge a lot you take a lot of responsibility.

And let me tell you this:
If the furnace is sold to you for $1750 the manufacturer has production costs that it has to cover.
On the other side an installer will charge $1750 to install it. So it all goes to the client for $3500

Who do you think has higher costs in all of this, the manufacturer or the installer? Yet they both charge the client (aka the sucker) equal parts.

I am not going to get into a detailed discussion about the basis of your fee because I have done it too many times and I already know what you are going to say and it would be off topic. In fact we are already off topic so let's stop here. (it all started with you calling me cheap and picky and you had no grounds for that, so refrain yourself from making unsupported comments like that)


To come back to the topic: a heat exchanger can not be "abused" unless the installer did a poor job because all the end user does is to press on the thermostat buttons. So if the heat exchanger fails it is either the manufacturer or the installer who should pay for installing a replacement.

 

The home owner must also maintain a clean air filter.

This is even more important when you have a high negative pressure reading in the return air duct and a high temperature rise across the furnace. If someone were to install a high static 3M filter and fail to change it or push a sofa against the air intake grill the furnace would see high temperatures. 3M filter at the grill and a mechanical filter at the furnace coupled with an undersized return air duct could give you 4 times the desired negative pressure in the return air to the furnace.

A measurement of the external static pressure and temperature rise across the furnace should be taken. It is very possible that you need more return air (or supply air) ductwork.

 

Isn't the installer supposed to take care of most of the above?
Of course the air filter must be changed by the owner but don;t tell me that the newer furnaces can not protect themselves against this and after so many years of using and designing furnaces the manufacturers have not designed them to shut down well before the point when it becomes dangerous for the furnace itself to work when they overheat.

 

You can exceed rated delta tee and esp without lockout.

They should have measured esp and delta tee with the filter installed at time of installation.

This should be checked again.