Should repair guy actually test parts, or just switch stuff out?


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Old 02-21-15, 12:57 PM
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Should repair guy actually test parts, or just switch stuff out?

Regarding my Rheem Criterion Furnace (1994), my question is what should I be expecting from the furnace repair guy.

What's happening is on start-up, the draft blower starts, the burners ignite and then the circulation blower starts. However, half the time, the furnace stops about 10 seconds after the circulation blower.

With some reading I gave the flame sensor a good scrub with steel wool -- no change. So I called repair guy who said it was either the flame sensor or the control board, so he replaced the flame sensor ($30 part, $110 for the call). It worked fine for the few test starts while he was here, but sure enough, it continues to misbehave. I expect if I call him them back, they'll suggest changing out the control board.

What surprises me is there is no testing of components -- just change stuff until the problem stops. I'm wondering if there is a sensor/switch that is flaky and is not sensing that the blower is running, and therefore shuts the furnace down.

Should I be expecting someone to actually test components, or just switch out parts based on best guess?

Thanks.
 
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Old 02-21-15, 01:52 PM
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Before the repair man actually does work or change out parts make it clear that you expect the parts and furnace to be tested as part of the service call. Call the repairman back and tell him that you paid him to repair the furnace not just replace parts. Regardless of what he replaced he did not repair. Withhold payment. If he refuses threaten to go to small claims court. It won't be worth his time to go through the hassle of court. Better to just fix it.
 
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Old 02-21-15, 03:32 PM
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As Norm said, call him back & tell him the furnace is not fixed. Ask if he knows how to test & determine what the problem is before replacing parts. Just so you know: If it were the flame sensor, the flames would only stay on a few seconds. Certainly not long enough for the blower to come on.

There should be a window in the blower compartment door thru which you can see an LED. When the furnace shuts down, that light should blink a code. Count the blinks then remove the door. There should be a key to the blink code on the inside of the door. Let us know what that code translates to .
 
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Old 02-22-15, 08:41 AM
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Thanks guys.
So digging a little deeper I found what I said below (and what I told repair guy) was wrong. What's happening is the call for heat and running of the furnace is fine. After it shuts off, residual heat builds up and starts the draft blower and circulation fan about 10 secs after it shuts off. There is no call for heat (thermostat doesn't show "heat"). So the circulation fan runs for 10-15 secs, cools the plenum, and then shuts off. So I guess all normal.

I thought I'd try lowering the fan shut off temp, but can't find the fan limit switch -- there is nothing that looks like the Honeywell pics with three screws, and no sensor that I can see in around the blower -- this is a Rheen RGDG-10EBRJA.

So furnace is functional, just get this secondary fan start-stop that I haven't noticed before.

Thanks again.
Geoff
 
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Old 02-22-15, 08:53 AM
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I think this is a feature not a fault. I also have a Rheem furnace (RGRP 075) about 3 years old now. One of the features is that the fan will continue to run after the heat shuts off (perhaps 10 to 15 seconds) thereby sending the remaining heat in the plenum into the house rather than sit and cool off where is does no good. This was one of the selling points all of the sales people mentioned to me as I was getting quotes. However, it does not shut off then restart as you describe. I would call the factory and find out if this normal.
 
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Old 02-22-15, 11:09 AM
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It sounds like your furnace is running hot.

Is the air filter clean?
Do you have an evaporator coil (used for cooling)?
Is it clean?
Is the blower wheel clean?

Measure the temperature on each side of the furnace and compare to the rated heat rise listed on the furnace tag (nomenclature).

Modern furnace (usually this side of 1992) use a circuit board instead of a fan limit to control fan operation.
Dip switch on these board ca be adjusted to increase the delay on break for the fan motor.

It is tough to find old Rheem manuals.
Some pictures of the board may help.
 
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Old 02-22-15, 12:59 PM
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That should be a 62-24084-82 ignition board. It should have dip switches on it for blower timing. The switches are labeled 1-4. 1 & 2 control blower shutoff time and 3 & 4 should be left off. There should be a chart on the blower door explaining switch position.

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Yours may look slightly different and may be a different board color but the dip switches should be in the same location.
 
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Old 02-22-15, 04:17 PM
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I think you may be on to something here. Filter is new, but has been a couple of years since a good cleaning.

See the next post re pictures of the board.

Thanks.
 
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Old 02-22-15, 04:26 PM
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The board in the furnace is model 62-22694-11 - see photo. Name:  Furnace board.jpg
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There is one set of three switches, and I don't see any info about them on the documentation attached to the furnace.
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Not surprising given the way this week has gone -- I've got error codes on my truck, washing machine and today my wife's breadmaker...

Additional comments appreciated.

Geoff
 
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Old 02-22-15, 05:19 PM
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Is this a vertical or horizontal furnace?
 
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Old 02-22-15, 06:04 PM
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Couldn't find anything on the three dip switch settings.
 
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Old 02-22-15, 06:12 PM
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Well, incoming air comes in left side at bottom. Blower at bottom and blows air up over heat exchanger, and hot air exits out the top. Is that horizontal or vertical? (BTW, the photo of the board is rotated 90 degrees clockwise).
 
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Old 02-22-15, 06:26 PM
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Vertical. Unfortunately this is the least serviceable option.

Are both 1 and 2 turned On?
Do you have a 180 second delay before the fan turns off at this time?
 
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Old 02-22-15, 07:26 PM
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By "1 and 2", if you mean the DIP switches, no, all three are in the off position.

Just now, following a heating cycle:
- burner shut off
- 6 seconds later blowers shut off
- 35 seconds later both blowers came on
- 20 seconds later both blowers shut off

That's the standard sequence. Hmmmmm....


Looking at this manual for similar beast (I think): http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Rheem_RGPH_Manual.pdf

On page 25 is this diagram:
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Should I try putting switches 1 and 2 in the on position?
 

Last edited by geoffv; 02-22-15 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 02-22-15, 07:29 PM
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6 seconds isn't a listed option. It should be 90 seconds with 1 and 2 Off.

I would turn on 1 and 2 to get 180 seconds but I am not optimistic.
 
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Old 02-22-15, 07:34 PM
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Am I missing something

This sounds like the fan switch setting is incorrect. If the fan control is indeed integrated in the board I and it is only a time sequence to control off/on it wouldn't restart. Check and see if this furnace has a L460 Honeywell fan/ limit.
 

Last edited by mbk3; 02-22-15 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Add
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Old 02-22-15, 08:06 PM
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OK - turned 1 + 2 on, and no change.
Attached is the troubleshooting guide from the control board door -- see the second to last box in the left column - says if blower doesn't stay on:
Check for Open Limit. Replace (IIBC)
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Does this mean the open limit may be a replaceable part that is faulty, or does this mean the IIBC needs replacing for sure?

Next question -- should I tackle replacing the board myself with a used part of ebay? Or start shopping for a new furnace given this puppy is about 25 years old?

Thanks again all, very helpful!
 
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Old 02-23-15, 06:55 PM
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I have never seen a limit trip turn off the blower and this would not help in cooling the heat exchanger.


Do it yourself? Yes

Install a used part to control a gas appliance that you will turn on and go to sleep? I wouldn't

If you install a new control board you should expect a third high voltage fan terminal.
It looks like you have Heat speed and Cool speed now but the replacement will probably also have Fan only speed.
 
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Old 02-23-15, 07:03 PM
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That replacement board is expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Rheem-62-22694-11/dp/B003U4N6RM

Do you have a flame sensor in the furnace at this time?

This is the replacement that I have purchased...
http://www.amazon.com/Rheem-Weatherk...2FKP050SNWAN1T

It is listed as a replacement for your board but it wouldn't have the flame sensor kit required on furnaces made before 1994.
 
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Old 02-23-15, 07:20 PM
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Houston, I would be wonder if ICM doesn't make a repalcement board. They are usually a lot less expensive than OEM.
 
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Old 02-23-15, 07:34 PM
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Thanks for all the info. Think I'll be calling a couple heating contractors for quotes. Fact is, the furnace is getting on. There is a bit of a whine in the bearings of the draft inducer motor, whole thing needs a serious cleaning, A/C unit is really noisy, etc., etc., so it just might be time.

I've now got to read the threads on properly sizing a unit so I don't get over-sold This one is 80,000 btu, but even when it's -30 it never runs for more than 10 minutes. Then multi-stage, efficiency, DC motors, heat pump versus A/C...oi...this is what I've been trying to avoid! Election year -- maybe our feds here in Canada will bring back the rebates for higher efficiency units...

Once again, thanks for the coaching! Cheers, Geoff
 
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Old 02-23-15, 08:39 PM
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I know in Canada there is a free heat loss computer program available but I have no idea as to its accuracy or how difficult it is to use.
 
 

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