Gibson / Nordyne GR4GA Blower Motor Not Working + Limit Circuit Open Code

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Old 12-21-15, 01:57 PM
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Gibson / Nordyne GR4GA Blower Motor Not Working + Limit Circuit Open Code

I have a Gibson / Nordyne GR4GA furnace and AC unit. The blower motor is not working with thermostat set to Auto or On. I tested it by hand and it spins freely and there's no burnt smell from the motor. I replaced the blower capacitor since it was old and cheap to do, but no improvement. I'm getting 1 blink on the red LED indicating "limit circuit open". The unit heats up, heat comes hot out of the outside exhaust and the amber LED stays solid until what I assume is it resets and/or shuts off the burners. Any help would be greatly appreciated...
 
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Old 12-21-15, 03:00 PM
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Is that a package unit? Most likely the motor is failing, then the Hi limit s opening. Is it a three speed motor?
 
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Old 12-21-15, 03:18 PM
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Yes, its a combo unit. Unless I were to look at the motor for a part # and search for that info, I'm not sure.
 
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Old 12-21-15, 03:26 PM
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Use a mutimeter to see if the circuit board is turning the 120 VAC on to power the motor.

The fan on position on the thermostat may not be wired to the furnace, so you may need to turn on the burners and warm up the heat exchanger to see if the power to the fan is switch on.
 
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Old 12-21-15, 04:55 PM
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If that model is correct..... is this a commercial unit ? The service manual shows that model available in three phase models only.

GR4GA is 3 phase.
GR4 is single phase.
 
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Old 12-21-15, 05:26 PM
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Yes, it's definitely a GR4GA, the full model # is GR4GA-030K072C. It's possible that it's a commercial unit, but it heats and cools the house that I inherited (a small home too) which seems to be overkill as it is. I'll have to hunt a wiring diagram in order to probe around with a multimeter to test things.
 
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Old 12-21-15, 09:23 PM
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Strange.
Anyway.... I grabbed you the GR4 manual which seems to be exactly what you have. Look it over. Page 18 has the single phase wiring diagram and schematic on it. It shows two limits..... the flame rollout switch and the high limit. Either one will cause the same fault code. Usually the FRS requires a manual reset button be pushed on it. The limits are wired in blue wire and are connected to pins 3 and 8 on the nine pin plug.

nortek hvac/literature/7086290.pdf
 
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Old 12-22-15, 01:59 PM
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I see the 2 switches on the front panel, wired in series with the blue wires. One looks like a flat credit card, the other is a small round sensor both have 2 connectors. Looks wise, the connectors are clean, nothing looks burnt, broken, etc. How would I go about doing this manual reset?
 
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Old 12-22-15, 02:02 PM
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I guess my biggest question is, should the blower run up to the point that the fault code starts or is this fault keeping the blower from ever starting up? As I mentioned, the blower motor itself has never moved at all prior to or since testing things.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 02:07 PM
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The limits are wired in blue wire and are connected to pins 3 and 8 on the nine pin plug.

Set your meter above 24vac and check across those two pins. There should be 0v there.

Alternately you can connect your black test lead to ground and check all four switch leads. They all should show 24vac from terminal to ground.

Many controllers run the blower if a limit is open. Two reasons.... the blower will cool off the plenum if over heated and it will alert you to a problem.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 04:45 PM
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I took the blower motor out of the unit. I was feeding it 120V from a wall outlet and only get a hum, no movement. This is through the white and black wires for high speed run, the red and blue (med and low speed) do nothing. It's hard to read the label on the motor because it's smudged, but looks like it might say 205/230V. I guess the wall power isn't enough to power it up and test it?
 
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Old 12-22-15, 05:02 PM
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The motor needs 240v to run. Can't be tested on 120v.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 05:38 PM
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Do I need to have power to the unit to test the connectors at 3 and 8 with the multimeter? I have the breaker switch off currently.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 06:00 PM
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Yes... the breaker needs to be on as that powers the 24vac control transformer.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 06:34 PM
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I tested 3 and 8 each to ground and got right at 26.4v give or take. Across each other it would jump .1 or show a - but generally 0.0. I tested each of the 4 contacts on the 2 sensors to ground and got 26.4 as well. This was with the multimeter set at 200ac.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 06:46 PM
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I had left you a link in post 7. Did you confirm it matched your furnace/wiring diagram ?

I'm just checking as that is what I'm using to help you. You have voltage on pin 3 and 8 which tells us that the limit loop is not open. That leaves a defective control board. I don't see any other limits in the system.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 07:07 PM
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Yes, I was using that diagram on page 18 so I knew what wires to test. It matches the unit. So you think that the entire board is bad? I was trying to rule out simple things on my own before calling a tech. Still never did get power to the blower though. A defective blower motor wouldn't trip that code would it? As in if the wires were grounding out inside it?
 
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Old 12-22-15, 08:12 PM
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No... a defective motor won't cause that code either.

I'm getting 1 blink on the red LED indicating "limit circuit open". The unit heats up, heat comes hot out of the outside exhaust and the amber LED stays solid until what I assume is it resets and/or shuts off the burners.
Are you sure you're getting a fault 1 code ? The burner should not light with the board in an open limit condition.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 08:51 PM
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Did you read that manual ?

Over-Temperature Limit Control — The over-temperature limit control acts to prevent the air temperature leaving the unit from exceeding the maximum outlet air temperature. If the limit opens, the integrated control diagnostic will flash one time. The circulating air blower and combustion blower will continue to operate if the over-temperature limit control opens.

If the limit was open.... the blower would be running (if it were working) and so should the draft inducer blower.

You can check at the blower plug for blower power.

White pin 6 is common. Checking from white to ground should be 120vac.
If yes.... check from white to each of the other pins for power. If you find power it should be 240v.

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Old 12-24-15, 07:51 AM
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With the blower motor unplugged and the unit on, I get 120v from white to ground. White to any of the fan speed wires I get nothing. I filmed a video of the start up and led blinking if I can find a way to upload it, then you can see exactly what it's doing.
 
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Old 12-24-15, 08:31 AM
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Here's a video, if you skip toward the end it shows when it trips and the LED flashes. https://vid.me/jcL2
 
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Old 12-24-15, 01:40 PM
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Ok.. your video shows you get ignition and then a limit failure. That's because the blower isn't starting.

Here's what you need to do. Put stat in OFF.
Try jumping from R to G.... carefully.... with power on. Do you hear a relay click on the board ?
If you hear the relay click.... power the system down.... place a jumper between R and G. Power back up. Check from white to red, orange, blue and black terminals/wire. If you don't get 240vac... the board is defective. If you do get power the motor is bad.

Let me know what you get.

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Old 12-24-15, 04:36 PM
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When you say to put Stat in off, do you mean to power it up and let it run until it shuts down and the led goes off or? Not sure how to go about that...
 
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Old 12-24-15, 05:23 PM
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I mean put the thermostat in OFF position.... no HEAT..... no COOL.
 
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Old 12-26-15, 11:54 AM
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Ok, with them jumped while on I can hear the relay click. Off and jumped then power up I get 240v on the black wire only.
 
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Old 12-26-15, 12:06 PM
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So you get 240v between the white and black wires. That means the module is good.
Turn power off and try swapping the black wire with another of the parked blower wires.

I'm guessing black is currently on the heat or cool terminal.
Swap it with a color that is on M1, M2 or M3.
 
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Old 12-26-15, 12:57 PM
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I see the m1 m2 etc on the diagram, I was actually testing for blower power at the plug where it plugs into the blower with the blower disconnected. Should I hook it back up and test everything on the circuit board on the m1, m2, etc connections?
 
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Old 12-26-15, 01:32 PM
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Yes... you NEED to check for 240v on the motor plug.
 
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Old 12-27-15, 06:35 PM
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I wasn't able to test the unit today due to the weather, but I did test the blower itself at the plug. Set on ohms I get 19.5 from white to black, but all other colors to white I get a 1. infinite reading. Is it safe to say that the blower is bad or at least would be on all speeds other than high (black)?
 
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Old 12-27-15, 08:23 PM
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That would indicate the black, high speed, winding is good and the others are open. That's a pretty rare problem if the other windings weren't used. You should be able to use the system with the motor connected to the board using the black connection.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 09:44 AM
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Alright, was finally able to test outside. I plugged the blower back in and did the R to G jumper. Power on and the blower works. I didn't switch any wires at m1, heat, cool etc. Left them all as they were. I can still do that if need be.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 09:48 AM
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Just in case, black is on cool, red on heat, orange m3, blue m2 and m1 is empty. None of these have been messed with.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 09:51 AM
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In most cases.... the R to G jumper puts the blower in FAN ON mode which is usually the cooling speed.

You'll need to check heat separately to see if the heat relay is connecting to the blower correctly.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 09:56 AM
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So swap black (currently on cool) with the orange or blue at m2 or m3 leaving the R G jumper on and power up?
 
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Old 12-28-15, 10:22 AM
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OK I triple tested the method with the blower being plugged in. When I first tested it, blower and ac fan both came on. 2nd time only the ac fan came on and blower was humming no movement, 3rd time neither of them are working...
 
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Old 12-28-15, 10:42 AM
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Sorry for all the replies, but I'm fairly certain that the problem is with the blower, at least with the wiring from the plug going into the windings. With it unplugged and system jumpered, the ac fan comes on no problem, with it plugged in neither it nor ac fan comes on. I assume there is a short inside and I got lucky the first time I put it back in that it didn't short out, after that and since it hasn't worked.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 05:00 PM
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Just kind of stuck at this point...
 
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Old 12-28-15, 05:58 PM
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So swap black (currently on cool) with the orange or blue at m2 or m3 leaving the R G jumper on and power up?
Ok.... when the black is connected to cool and you have the jumper in place... the blower runs.

Did you try swapping the other colors in place of the black wire ?
Did it work with any of the other colors ?
 
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Old 12-28-15, 06:25 PM
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No, the blower only ran the first time I tried it and since then it won't come on at all, it just makes a humming sound. With black in the cool (how it was wired) it came on only once as did the AC fan. I always double, triple (or more) check everything... With the blower plugged in, it won't come on nor will the AC fan. With the blower unplugged, the AC fan will come on. That leads me to believe that there is a short or problem on the wiring side of the blower and when it's plugged in it's shorting out and causing the AC fan to also not come on.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 07:02 PM
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If the blower was causing a short that kept the A/C fan from not working .... you'd have a blown breaker. The blower and the A/C fan are not controlled by the same relay.

If plugging the blower in makes a difference like that then you'll need to take your voltmeter and see what's happening.

Check the voltage at black(cool) and white to the blower.... is it still near 240V ?
Check the voltage to the A/C fan..... is it still near 240v ?
 
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