Bryant outside heater cycles every 3-5 minutes

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Old 12-22-15, 08:11 AM
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Bryant outside heater cycles every 3-5 minutes

Help please. I have an old Bryant 582ANW024 that keeps cycling every 3-5 minutes. The thermostat starts, the induced draft motor turns on, the burners ignite, the blower motor turns on. It runs for a little while and then the blower motor shuts off after 3-5 minutes. If I turn the breaker off for a few minutes it will work turn on again but do the same cycling. At one point I had 5 flashing LED indicating Ignition lockout failure. I would appreciate any help.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 09:13 AM
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Welcome to the forums.

It would appear that you are having an overheating problem. The first thing to check is the filter and replace it.

Things like blocked returns, closed off registers, dirty A/C coil and blower problems can all cause this issue.
 
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Old 12-22-15, 11:40 AM
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If the furnace were overheating, the fan circulating air around the house would stay on and the burners would cycle on and off. Also, no lockout.


<<Help please. I have an old Bryant 582ANW024 that keeps cycling every 3-5 minutes. The thermostat starts, the induced draft motor turns on, the burners ignite, the blower motor turns on. It runs for a little while and then the blower motor shuts off after 3-5 minutes. If I turn the breaker off for a few minutes it will work turn on again but do the same cycling. At one point I had 5 flashing LED indicating Ignition lockout failure. I would appreciate any help.>>


Your description isn;t detailed enough. For example, does the inducer motor stay on? If not, when does it shut off?

When "it runs a few minutes" WHAT is running? Do the burners continue to run?


You need to describe the entire sequence you observe, in order and in detail.

Be sure that the thermostat isn't shutting off the furnace. The way to verify that is to see if you have 24 VAC on the W terminal ------ when the thermostat is on, it switches 24 VAC to that terminal and the inducer motor should continue to run as long as the thermostat calls for heat.
 
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Old 12-23-15, 05:30 PM
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I am in Michigan, 60 degrees and raining all day. Very warm temp for this time of year. I was not able to do much in the testing due to the rain, and the furnace being outside and thermostat inside. I can do detailed testing tomorrow. This is a Bryant 582ANW024 heating/cooling unit that is OUTSIDE. LP gas furnace. Documentation looks like it was installed about 1999. I replaced the thermostat to a new Honeywell programmable thermostat.
The LP gas furnace is outside and has a front panel I remove to see the motors and burners. When the front panel is off the furnace seems to draw more air from the outside.
A test I did today: thermostat set, thermostat came on at proper setting for temp. The inducer motor started and then the burners lit a few seconds later. After about 3 minutes the blower motor came on. At about 5 minutes the burner shut off for 8 seconds and then reignited. During those 8 seconds the inducer motor and blower motor stayed on.
Another test: thermostat set, thermostat came on at proper setting for temp. The inducer motor started and then the burners lit a few seconds later. After about 5 minutes the burners shut off as well as the inducer motor. This lasted about 8 seconds. The blower motor stayed on. Then the inducer motor started and the burners lit and both motors ran with burners lit for another 5 minutes. After another five minutes the the burners went off for about 8 seconds, however this time the inducer motor stayed running as well as the blower motor. The furnace ran another 15 minutes and reached the thermostat temp. The burners and inducer motor both stopped while the blower motor continued for another few minutes and shut down like it should.
I was able to test the white at the thermostat and it showed 28 VAC. It is a new thermostat and I unplugged the face of it to use my motor. During all testing the status light on the circuit board stayed solid red. ( a week ago it blinked 5 times indicating Ignition lockout fail.
I will do more detailed testing tomorrow when I have someone standing at the thermostat and I can get more detail.
I have a couple of questions. Is it alright to have the face (entire front) of the thermostat off (no wiring between face/front of thermostat when removed) while testing voltage or should I connect the thermostat face/front with jumper wires to the wire terminals for a voltage reading?
Should I keep the face panel of the furnace on while doing the test so it will not draw in extra air that it normally would not? I can make a hole in the panel so I can see the burners.
I will test with more detail tomorrow. Thank you for your help. If you need any pictures/video I can send it.
 
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Old 12-23-15, 05:53 PM
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Pictures are always a plus. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html

If it fails X amount of times.... it will go into lockout mode.

It still sounds like your are describing an over heating problem.
Did you check for a return air filter and replace it if needed ?
Try running the furnace with the blower door open and the safety switch taped in. See if it runs longer now. This can only be done as a test.
 
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Old 12-25-15, 01:55 AM
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I would verify the the hole behind the thermostat is sealed. Cold drafts in the wall often cause short cycling if this hole isn't sealed.

Supply air registers that blow air directly onto the thermostat will also cause short cycling.
 
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Old 12-29-15, 09:38 AM
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I put a new filter in. I made sure al of the heat registers were open as well as all cold air returns unobstructed.
I checked the thermostat for cold drafts and supply register nearby. Neither of these were an issue.
Here is testing I did:
Outside temp 39 degrees. House temp 74, thermostat set at 79.
First the heat indicator clicked on at the thermostat.
Outside at the furnace inducer motor came on and the burners lit. Blower motor on. Burners went out when blower started. Blower and inducer motors both continued to run. Burners back on for 10 seconds and off again. This sequence happened three times.

Later another test: Thermostat on, inducer motor and burners on. Blower motor on and burners immediately went out as well as inducer motor. This happened three times, as soon as blower motor went on the inducer off and burners stop.

Took cover off furnace ( I had cleaned it prior to all testing done). Inducer motor on, burners on immediately. When the blower motor turned on the inducer motor and burners went out. Blower motor stayed on for about 1 minute. The cover being off did not seem to make a difference this time. The LED stayed solid during all of the above testing. I had on previous occasions had 5 flashes. Any suggestions?
 
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Old 12-29-15, 11:50 AM
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<< Burners went out when blower started. Blower and inducer motors both continued to run. >>


Use a multimeter to see if the high temperature limit switch is opening.

If the furnace overheats, the inducer motor would stay on, the fan circulating air around the house would stay on and the burners would shut off when the limit switch opens, and turn on again after the furnace cools off and the limit switch closes again.

That's what you seem to be describing.
 
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Old 01-04-16, 11:59 AM
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I am not seeing a high temperature limit switch in my installation manual or any documentation. Could the flame rollout limit switch be the same type of part? If so, I do have a multimeter. Should there be voltage through the switch, and when the burner shuts off the voltage meter go to zero?
Thank you for your help.
 
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Old 01-04-16, 01:14 PM
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You didn't mention it was a packaged unit. Makes things tough to find. There are two limit switches in your system and they are outline. Click on pics for larger views.

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Old 01-05-16, 12:41 PM
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Sorry I thought I said it was heating/cooling that sits outside. Bryant Model: 582ANW024060AAHD Volts AC 208/230 1 phase 60Hz.
I do have this diagram shown above. From the notes on the diagram. My model does not have LS1 and LS2 in series.
However, I need to know the physical location of the Limit Switch (on the circuit board?) and how to test it with my meter. Could it be the rollout switch causing this? I know where the rollout switch in the furnace.
How do I test the switch?
Thanks
 
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Old 01-06-16, 03:19 PM
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I have located the two limit switches and flame rollout switch. I checked them and found all three to show closed with a multimeter showing zero ohms at all three switches. Sometime during this process the red indicator light went out. I can't think of anything I did other than check the three switches L1 L2 RS. At some point I touched CAP1 in the component chart reaching for LS1 receiving a small shock. I was very careful other than that with checking the switches. I then turned the thermostat up and nothing happened at the furnace. I checked and found 240 volts at the outside box and 240 volts inside the furnace at the terminals block.
So I have voltage in the furnace but nothing happens when the thermostat is turned up and calls for heat. The red indicator light remains out. Anything anyone can think of to troubleshoot would be very appreciated.
 
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Old 01-06-16, 04:15 PM
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There is a 5A fuse shown between the transformer and the R connection on the board. The fuse may be in an inline holder.
 
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Old 01-07-16, 12:13 PM
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I see the fuse is in the diagram. Is the R connection in the circuit board? What is R a resistor? The wire I am looking for is red and the fuse is between the transformer and the circuit board??
 
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Old 01-08-16, 05:37 AM
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I did find the 5 Amp fuse. It's on the circuit board. Can an automotive 5A fuse be used here or does it require something specific from Bryant? Thanks
 
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Old 01-09-16, 10:44 AM
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I found the fuse on the control board. I replaced it with another 5 amp fuse. I checked LS1, LS2 and RS switches prior to starting furnace and all measured .2 or .3 ohms.
I then ran jumpers to LS1 to begin checking one switch at a time. Thermostat on and every thing ran as it should until the furnace heated the 5 degrees the thermostat was set at. The shut down was normal. During this period of about 45 minutes I had my multimeter on the jumpers on LS1. It stayed at .2 to .3 ohms as it did before the testing began. Of course everything worked because I had everything set up to test... Frustrating. I will run an other test on LS1 later today unless you think I should try one of the other two switches. Should I also be checking the flame sensor that goes into the burners? Thanks
 
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Old 01-12-16, 04:18 AM
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The gas shutting on and then off when I open the cover panel a little to view flames and meter. I put the panel back on and the burners lit. There is not switch on the unit to stop anything when the cover panel is off. A twice I watched as the flames turned on and the first of 2 burners lit, and the second didn't for a few seconds. Normally it lights both right away. I have cleaned the Flame sensor. Is there a way to test the flame sensor? Please help!! Thank you.
 
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Old 01-17-16, 01:22 PM
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I purchased a new flame sensor. I cleaned out the burners. Clean filter. The igniter works well. is the flame sensor suppose to be in the fame. It is at the edge of the frame but not directly in the flame. The burners shut off after 5 minutes, back on 1 min later, then flames off. Blower and inducer running all of this time. Do I reposition the flame sensor so it is directly in the flame?? PLEASE HELP!!!
 
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Old 01-18-16, 04:01 PM
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Sorry buddy.... I've been stretched thin with this cold shock here.

Usually.... the igniter is at one end of the burner row and the flame sensor is at the other end. This way the sensor sees the last burner lit and it knows all is well. Yes... the flame sensor must be in an actual flame. The flame is part of the circuit.

Sometimes the rods are universal fit and the bracket needs to be bent to get the rod to sit in the flame. You can carefully bend the bracket.

You mentioned the last burner doesn't always light. That needs to be looked at right away. There are carryover wings where the flame travels from burner to burner. It is very likely there is rust there especially on an outside packaged unit.

From furnace cleaning instruction....
3. Pull and clean the burners. The most common failures associated with burners are contamination and misalignment. Many of today's in-shot burner designs incorporate the carryover mechanism into the burner itself. There may be slots or "wings" in the burner, which align with the burner next to it. Inspect these to make sure they’re free from debris that could disrupt the flow of gas and air.

A stiff-bristled brush can be used to clean superficial rust or soot from the burner face. Use air pressure or dry nitrogen to blow out the burners and burner vestibule area. A dirty crossover can cause delayed ignition, which in turn can cause high carbon monoxide (CO) on start-up and during the first 60 seconds of run. Replace severely rusted burners.


I usually post the manual for helpful information. It can be found here if you don't have it.
hvac partners/docs/1009/public/0b/ii582a-18-5.pdf
 
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Old 01-25-16, 06:59 AM
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I can imaging it is even worse for you this week with storm.

I have the burners clean and the flame travels to the burners. I went to the limit switches one at a time to rule them out by closing the circuit with a jumper.
I took the furnace filter out. I still get the same results. Inducer, burners, fan motor, burners out, fan motor off.
This is an outside unit. I ran the furnace with the cover off. It ran Much longer. The problem in that is that it is getting a lot of air from the outside. When the cover is off the burners are on but the furnace is blowing cold air inside the house. When I put the cover back on the burners go out after about 10 minutes. My air filter is clean. I've tried to eliminate the limit switches by testing for a bad one. I have replaced the flame sensor with a new one (now in the flame). What next???
 
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Old 01-25-16, 08:58 AM
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I ran the furnace with the cover off. It ran Much longer.
Then it's not a flame sense issue.

What does the flashing LED indicate. That will be blinking a trouble code.

Can you test for the limits at J2 on the IFC board. You actually need to set your meter to AC volts, connect your meter at that plug and look at the meter when the problem happens.

The limit switches are self resetting which means that after a few minutes they reset and you don't which one opens.
 
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Old 01-25-16, 01:04 PM
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It almost never gives me a trouble code. It did once yesterday. One blink.
Fan on/off Delay Modified. I am sending a pic so I know I am testing what you are telling me to. I will use AC volts. I found J2 on the board it's a 12 pin plug? do I take the plug off when testing? What does the black test probe connect to and what does the red probe connect to? Please explain this part of the testing. I'm an IT guy with a little electrical knowledge, but I need more detail. thank you.

When I put a clip on both terminals doesn't that eliminate that limit switch by keeping it closed?(only while testing)

I tried to upload a picture of the board but it wouldn't upload. I tried to zip the file but to didn't compress it enough. I would be happy to email it to you. Looking at a board and looking at a diagram on paper are much different for me.

When I got home from work I turned the breaker on. I turned the thermostat up. Inducer started burners light, blower fan on for 8 minutes then everything off. I am watching for the red LED. Steady red. After 10 minutes the inducer starts, burners light, blower fan on for 9 minutes, then everything off. Nothing on LED, steady red. The furnace comes on one more time, runs about 10 minutes then shuts down. It cycled like this 3 times, no indicator on LED, steady red.
It has been over an hour now, I have left everything as is, thermostat calling for heat, nothing happening on furnace.

thank you,
Don
 

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Old 01-26-16, 08:41 AM
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I was just looking at the definition of the trouble code.

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I'm at a bit of a loss. You're describing a heat exchanger over heat issue yet the control board is not indicating that. It almost sounds like the stat stops calling for heat but if that was the issue then the burner would shut off and the blower would eventually time out.

You would need to keep the plug connected at J2. You need to carefully get your probes into the plug with the wire. It requires thin test probes. I would still check the limit circuit.
 
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Old 01-26-16, 09:50 AM
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I will keep the plug on the board at J2. There are letter(s) to the left of the
plug: IFO W G R RS LS CS GV. I put my meter on the plug with wire. Black probe to what, & red probe on what? What am I looking for, no voltage, high voltage.
How can I eliminate a limit switch/circuit, one at a time? I want to find out which switch is bad. I think LS1 and LS2 may be wired in series. Top wire of LS2 goes to the top prong on LS1. Can those be eliminated for testing purposes and if so how?
If you can help me with where to put my probes red/black for each test and how to eliminate one or more limit switches at a time I would really appreciate it.
Thank you for all that you have helped me with thus far. I do appreciate it.
I tried to upload a pic again and it failed. I will email it to you. Thanks, Don
 
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Old 01-26-16, 10:51 AM
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Aren't the limit switches wired in purple wire ? There should only be two purple wires on that plug.

At this point we don't care which switch it is..... we just want to know if it's that limit loop that is causing the problem.
 
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Old 01-26-16, 01:51 PM
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Yes all of the LS1 and LS2 are purple wires with 2 purple wires on the plug where its labeled LS. Do I put by probes red and black in the plug at those 2 purple wires while the plug is on the board? What should it show for AC V when operating properly? When it shuts down am I watching for it to go to 0 volts while the circuit is open? Hope this pic works: http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l...psc9rfysog.jpg

Thanks
 

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Old 01-27-16, 12:09 AM
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Very carefully put your probes in the white plug with the two purple wires. It's AC. There is no polarity. You should measure 0v at all times. If you see any voltage there it means your limits are opening.

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Old 01-27-16, 11:51 AM
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I have a fluke meter with the normal probes. If I cannot get the probes in those slots could I just use two pieces of small wire in the plug to put the probes on?
 
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Old 01-27-16, 04:42 PM
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Two pieces of wire would be fine. You may have to fold it over to make good connection.
 
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Old 02-03-16, 02:47 PM
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I put my probes in the plug and they did fit with the plug on due to slots in the front. I measured around .4mV
The furnace got voltage up to 2.2V and shut off the burners. The voltage went a little lower on one test. After about 15 seconds the burners came on. The other test the voltage got up to about 2.2v and shut down and meter showed 37mV. The burners came back on after about 15 seconds. The furnace randomly turns on and off. It started raining and I didn't want to get my Fluke meter wet so I stopped testing for the day. I will test again on Saturday. Any suggestions for Saturday.
 
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Old 02-06-16, 05:40 PM
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FLAME SENSOR CLEAN WITH DOUBLE 0 EMERY CLOTh
 
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Old 02-07-16, 10:36 AM
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I cleaned the original flame sensor. I then ordered a new one eliminating that as the reason. Thanks for your advice though.
 
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Old 02-07-16, 11:56 AM
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The furnace got voltage up to 2.2V and shut off the burners.
That is showing that there is a problem in the limit circuit. That voltage must remain near 0v. I'm not sure at what point the board sees it as an open but apparently it's near or just under 2.2v.

This means you need to physically follow the wiring. You'll probably need to remove and clean the connectors on each limit switch.
 
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Old 02-23-16, 09:48 AM
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I have cleaned all of the contacts/connectors for the limit switches and rollout switches. I double checked to make sure all of the wiring was reinstalled as it was by photographs.
I now have a new issue. The burners will not ignite. The inducer motor starts, the ignitor sparks for about 10 seconds, stops about 50 seconds, sparks again 10 seconds. During this time the inducer motor is on and the blower motor is off. After attempting to ignite about 5 times the igniter and inducer motor shut down. There is no indicator light for an error. It is solid red. I rechecked all of my connections and got the same results.
 
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Old 02-25-16, 07:22 AM
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Additional from the post on 02/23/16. At the third attempt the burners did ignite, shortly afterward the blower motor started. After 3 minutes blower motor shut down. Indicator light blinked 5 times.
 
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