Ruud not staying lit I cleaned flame sensor still shutting down
#1
11-28-16, 08:32 AM
Ruud not staying lit I cleaned flame sensor still shutting down
I have a 1992 ruud ugdg-10ebrjr, I turned on for first time this season. Blowers come on ignitor glows gas blows blue for 5 second then she shuts down. I cleaned flame sensor with same results. Should I just buy a new sensor first? The circuit board was replaced over the summer maybe i missed something there. I will upload some pics if i can.
#2
11-28-16, 08:46 AM
Member
You can use a meter to measure ma from the flame sensor.
I see some rust and signs of water damage. Heat exchanger ok in that unit?
I see some rust and signs of water damage. Heat exchanger ok in that unit?
#3
11-28-16, 08:53 AM
Group Moderator
Welcome to the forums.
Is that rust all over the burners..... they sure don't look in good shape ?
Is that a before or after picture.... the flame rod doesn't look clean ?
Are all the burners lighting immediately on supply of gas ?
The flame creates a conductive path from the sensor rod to ground. Burner grounds as well control board grounds are critical for proper operation. Make sure the screws in the control box are clean and getting ground to the control.
That module has a flame LED on it...... what is it doing during burner operation ?
Is that rust all over the burners..... they sure don't look in good shape ?
Is that a before or after picture.... the flame rod doesn't look clean ?
Are all the burners lighting immediately on supply of gas ?
The flame creates a conductive path from the sensor rod to ground. Burner grounds as well control board grounds are critical for proper operation. Make sure the screws in the control box are clean and getting ground to the control.
That module has a flame LED on it...... what is it doing during burner operation ?
#5
11-28-16, 09:39 AM
Thank you for response. The flame sensor is bright and shiny now. The board itself is not grounded as far as I can tell. Does the ground for flame sensor come from the sheet metal screw securing it?
All the burners fire blue immediately as soon as I hear it click then flames out after 5 seconds. The yellow flame LED blinks very faint(can hardly tell) after flame out.
All the burners fire blue immediately as soon as I hear it click then flames out after 5 seconds. The yellow flame LED blinks very faint(can hardly tell) after flame out.
#6
11-28-16, 09:50 AM
Group Moderator
The flame sensor LED should be locked on bright....not flickering when flame is present.
The control box is usually on a metal frame that get mounted to the furnace body.
The flame sense path is.... AC signal leaves the control box on the flame sense wire. Gets applied to the flame sensor rod. Gets rectified into DC via the flame. Then there is current flow from the flame to the metal ground which needs to be the same metal ground as the control box. The screw on the rod just holds it in place. It's a non functioning part.
The control box is usually on a metal frame that get mounted to the furnace body.
The flame sense path is.... AC signal leaves the control box on the flame sense wire. Gets applied to the flame sensor rod. Gets rectified into DC via the flame. Then there is current flow from the flame to the metal ground which needs to be the same metal ground as the control box. The screw on the rod just holds it in place. It's a non functioning part.
#9
11-28-16, 03:07 PM
Member
No, you need to get a meter capable of measuring the signal from the flame sensor and go from there.
Bypassing safety controls, even when possible, doesn't prove anything. Use meters and instrumentation to troubleshoot properly.
Bypassing safety controls, even when possible, doesn't prove anything. Use meters and instrumentation to troubleshoot properly.
#10
11-28-16, 03:22 PM
Group Moderator
Ok
No.... you can't jump out the flame sensor. It IS your problem. The LED is telling you that.
It's probably not the rod... it's the path.
What is the model number on that board ?
A solid ground to the control board is a must.
No.... you can't jump out the flame sensor. It IS your problem. The LED is telling you that.
It's probably not the rod... it's the path.
What is the model number on that board ?
A solid ground to the control board is a must.
#14
11-28-16, 07:28 PM
this may be the problem
https://arnoldservice.com/product/62...me-sensor-kit/
62-24044-71 Ruud Rheem Furnace Remote Flame Sensor Kit
If your furnace was made before March 2, 1994, and if you replacing the 62-24084-82 furnace control board, upgrade your flame sensor with 62-24044-71 Ruud Rheem Furnace Remote Flame Sensor Kit.
I replaced the board in june this year, according to this site the sensor needs to be changed. It look the same to me.
62-24044-71 Ruud Rheem Furnace Remote Flame Sensor Kit
If your furnace was made before March 2, 1994, and if you replacing the 62-24084-82 furnace control board, upgrade your flame sensor with 62-24044-71 Ruud Rheem Furnace Remote Flame Sensor Kit.
I replaced the board in june this year, according to this site the sensor needs to be changed. It look the same to me.
#15
11-28-16, 07:57 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Actually, you can bypass the flame sensor.
the flame sensor is just a way of exposing the voltage on the flame sensor wire to the furnace burner flames.
So you can connect the flame sensor wire to a screwdriver and put the screwdriver into the flames.
Probably not going to tell you much though, since you've already cleaned the flame sensor.
Try measuring the AC voltage being applied to the flame sensor during the ignition cycle ----it should be 24 VAC in most cases. If you get zero volts, you probably have a bad circuit board.
the flame sensor is just a way of exposing the voltage on the flame sensor wire to the furnace burner flames.
So you can connect the flame sensor wire to a screwdriver and put the screwdriver into the flames.
Probably not going to tell you much though, since you've already cleaned the flame sensor.
Try measuring the AC voltage being applied to the flame sensor during the ignition cycle ----it should be 24 VAC in most cases. If you get zero volts, you probably have a bad circuit board.
#16
11-28-16, 08:31 PM
Group Moderator
OP just changed the board recently.
I looked into the flame rod kit. It looks like more rod is in the flame with the new version.
I don't know if you have to upgrade to it or if yours is ok. Your rod seems to be pretty well in the flame path.
The diagram shows where the new one would sit.
You could try a temporary jumper from the C terminal to any shiny metal part and see if that improves the signal.
I looked into the flame rod kit. It looks like more rod is in the flame with the new version.
I don't know if you have to upgrade to it or if yours is ok. Your rod seems to be pretty well in the flame path.
The diagram shows where the new one would sit.
You could try a temporary jumper from the C terminal to any shiny metal part and see if that improves the signal.
#18
11-29-16, 05:09 AM
So run a jumper from c terminal in pic to the ground to rule out if sensor it bad?I ran a jumper from C screw in pic to a shiney surface with same result. I also tried taking the sensor out and held it deeper in the flame and still shuts down
Last edited by bigdog100; 11-29-16 at 05:37 AM.
#19
11-29-16, 09:25 AM
Group Moderator
At this point the only thing left to do is to check the flame sense circuit.
Setting your meter to the AC volts scale.... either auto or next step over 24vac.... and measure from the flame sense wire to ground. No call for heat needed for this test.
The other test is a little trickier. You would need a microamp scale on your meter. You would disconnect the flame rod and connect one meter lead to the removed wire and the other lead to the flame rod. You should be measuring something around 4-6ua when the burner fires.
Setting your meter to the AC volts scale.... either auto or next step over 24vac.... and measure from the flame sense wire to ground. No call for heat needed for this test.
The other test is a little trickier. You would need a microamp scale on your meter. You would disconnect the flame rod and connect one meter lead to the removed wire and the other lead to the flame rod. You should be measuring something around 4-6ua when the burner fires.
#20
11-29-16, 06:33 PM
problem solved
OK, the problem was fixed by much research. The new board did require the Protech Rheem Ruud 62-24044-71 Remote Flame sensor Rod kit. Thank you for the troubleshooting. If anyone else runs into this issue hope this helps.
