Looking to install a new tank and burner liner


  #1  
Old 12-13-17, 01:12 PM
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Looking to install a new tank and burner liner

HI all.

I have a rather old furnace setup that I'm keeping on life support until I can afford the swap over to gas.

I have an old 275gallon tank in my basement which as of now has two pinhole leaks and several other spots on the bottom which I believe will begin to leak in the immediate future. For this reason I'm not comfortable filling the tank for fear of total failure of the bottom and the associated cleanup disaster.

My furnace itself while an older, Iron Fireman Vortex (bottom burning), works and as far as I can tell has a solid Heat Exchanger. The firebrick on the inside of the burn chamber however is shot. I've previously rebuilt the pump and replaced the burner motor so those are both running strong.


Here are some photos of my current pump/chamber.

# Pump
https://imgur.com/a/8NpEx
https://imgur.com/a/OoiDT



# Burner
https://imgur.com/a/ZWOJ4
https://imgur.com/a/PP910


# Chamber
https://imgur.com/a/y7EHd


Here's what I think I need to do in order to prolong the life of my config.

- Deal with the existing tank
Pump out the ~15-20 gallons of sludge in the current tank into contains, delivering them to local hazerdeous waste collection.
Throw ~ 40 LBS of cat litter into the bottom of the tank.
Throw a ~ 2LB chunk of Dry ice in the tank and then cut a 12x12 hole into the side.
Throw away the cat litter in small batches.
Wipe out the inside of the tank with paper towels.
Cut the tank into 8 sections and dispose of them as scrap.
Pull out the existing supply line.

- New tank
Place new tank where old one was.
Run new supply line(s?) to the burner.
(I'll need guidance on whether I should run a return with my current setup)
Route existing vent and fill inlet to new tank, modifying plumbing as needed.


- Burner
Cut some Wet Blanket to match the height and circumference of the current fire brick and then go through the cure process.
- Check and adjust draft/burner vent as needed.



Supplies needed
- New tank
I'm currently considering the 220 gal version of this tank If i'm able to find it in my area. Standard oil tank | Granby Industries (Just to verify, it has a bottom tapping?)


This one is less expensive though
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vertical...5VOT/300636041


- Tank Gauge
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vertical...826P/203105833

- Supply Line
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-O...OL50/204162213

- Oil Filter assembly
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Boiler-O...A25A/202312941

- ShutOff Valve
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Firomati...350P/205785821



- 2(4)X flare nuts
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...1609/207176731

- Thread Dope
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSe...5631/100351066

- Return bushing?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RWB-BECK...d=tank+bushing


Any seasoned advice would be very appreciated!
 
  #2  
Old 12-14-17, 11:49 AM
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I moved you thread to the boiler forum. You have a boiler with water. A furnace is hot air.

I'm not the pro here but just making some observations and adding opinions.

I think since you are considering going to natural gas that you are throwing good money after bad. I realize funds are limited or tight. Have you checked with the natural gas company for any types of introductory offers like new boiler financing with new service ?

There are some good boilers guys (members) here.
They'll stop by an add advice.
 
  #3  
Old 12-14-17, 12:12 PM
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You will also need (4) 1.25" nipples for tank legs, (2) 2" plugs for the top of the tank, & piping for the fill & vent. Regarding your choice of pipe dope: I use #2 Permatex (available at most auto supply houses. Your plan, in general, sounds good. I would use the tank from Home Depot & yes it does have a bottom tapping. Do not use a return line.
 
  #4  
Old 12-14-17, 12:32 PM
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K,
I think at this point before you start this job is to check state and local codes to make sure you do what is required.

It is difficult to comment on the tank replacement because each state has it's own codes that must be followed or the oil man at least in MA will not or does not have to deliver you oil.

In MA tanks are supposed to be put in by a licensed person and an inspection done by the fire dept. and a permit pulled and then oil can be delivered. That's suppose to be the process not to say it's always followed but with all this hazardous waist stuff going on it's a big liability now with thousands of dollars at steak for cleanup.

I don't want to preach but just make you aware of what you're undertaking. Different states have different codes and some are more lenient than others.

I know you said money is tight but I would hate to see you go through all this for nothing without at least checking into what PJ has suggested. They might offering different incentive plans that would make it worth your while instead of going through all of this.

In MA even getting rid of an oil tank is a process and must be done by licensed people.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 12-14-17, 01:04 PM
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Oregon is a more liberal State than even Vermont, and we have grants available to many people whose Oil Tanks are leaking.

You ought to check with your Environmental or Natural Resources Agency and see if those are available there, and what the qualifications are.

Vermont offers up to as much as $2000.00 per Tank Replacement . . . . but very few people bother applying.

Now the Oil Dealers are supposed to inspect Oil Tanks before delivering, anything, and repeat the process every three (3) years.,
 
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Old 12-15-17, 12:05 PM
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Thanks to everyone responding!

Grady, could you please elaborate on why I shouldn't add a return so that I can better understand the mechanics?

I'll take a look into seeing if I can find a grant for a replacement tank.

P.S. this is a heated air furnace, No water/boiler in it.
 
  #7  
Old 12-15-17, 12:15 PM
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My apologies. The thread is back in the furnace forum.
 
  #8  
Old 12-15-17, 01:56 PM
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Looked into financial assistance in replacing the tank, it seems that assistance is primarily available for burried tank decommissioning.

So I guess that leaves understanding when a return is needed and why it shouldn't be used in this case?
 
  #9  
Old 12-15-17, 02:33 PM
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Why was the return line installed initially.

Usually they are used for underground tanks or it the tank is a long way from the unit or if the lines are feed from the top. A 2 pipe system bleeds itself so if you are having air problems for some reason they will install a return line to stop the nuisance bleedings ane let the line bleed itself.

As Grady mentioned if you don't need it I would stay away from it. Just more fittings to worry about.

If you do need a return line there are other things that can be done now like a Tigerloop which takes the place of the return line.

If you go to the sight below and type in (TIGERLOOP) in the search bar you can check them out.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 12-15-17, 06:08 PM
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I refuse to run a return line, period.
 
  #11  
Old 12-28-17, 01:05 PM
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Thanks folks,

I just got back to this today.
I need to measure the distance for the fill and vent pipes but can you please assist me in determining the material/couplers needed?

I believe I'll need 2X plugs (Black Iron?) I'm only seeing Galvanized Iron at Home depot though.
I'll need a 2" pipe for the fill, (Black Iron as well?) Same issue and only see Galvanized iron/steel at home depot.
I may need a union coupling? The current setup has one In between the tank and the 45* elbow but I'm unsure as to the reasoning behind it.
A few elbows (Black Iron?)

Will I need to use a reducer plug for the vent, and reduce it down to 1-1/4?

Here is my current list of supplies.

Oil Tank Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vertical...5VOT/300636041 1 489 115 Delivery fee is optional but, the room of choice option is highly preffered given the unit's size and weight.
Oil Tank Leg set Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Plumbers...14TL/204476121 1 20.36 0
Supply Line Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-O...OL50/204162213 1 103 0
Boiler oil Filter Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Boiler-O...A25A/202312941 1 29.12 0
Oil shutoff valve Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Firomati...350P/205785821 1 40.07 0
Flare Nuts Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...1609/207176731 2 3.89 0
Pipe thread sealant Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-8063...ermatex++80631 3 7.36 0
Oil Tank accessory Kit Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vertical...826P/203105833 1 87 0
Fire rated Ceramic Wet Blanket Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Fiber...nn+kaowool+wet 1 49.51 0
Ceramic Fiber Blanket Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Simwool-Ceram...+fiber+blanket 1 6.99 2.8
Burner Nozzle Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 1 7.2 0
Pipe Threader Harbor Freight https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-...set-62353.html 1 74.99 0
Multi-Purpose Vise Harbor Freight https://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-m...ise-61163.html 1 69.99 0
Black Iron Pipe
2" Black Iron plug


I Already have a bunch of various tools such as hacksaw, pipe wrench, flare tool, etc. I've just not worked with pipes before.

Thanks!
 
  #12  
Old 12-28-17, 02:42 PM
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Black steel pipe and fittings are generally a bit less expensive than galvanized. You may want to check at a plumbing supply rather than the big box mega-mart homecenter for your pipe and fittings. Galvanized is acceptable.

Use ONLY Permatex number 2 thread compound on fuel oil. It can usually be found at an auto parts store or the auto parts department of a department store.

Vent piping should be the same size as the fill pipe.

You should be able to rent a pipe threader for about 1/3 the cost of that Harbor Freight tool.
 
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Old 12-28-17, 03:13 PM
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Thanks, is this the correct Permatex compound?
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-8001...keywords=80011
 
  #14  
Old 12-28-17, 03:36 PM
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Yeah, that's the right stuff. I'd look around locally however for a much smaller tube as that much would allow you to install about fifty tanks. Tractor Supply carries it in 1.5 ounce tubes which should be plenty for one tank.
 
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Old 12-29-17, 03:53 PM
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I'm thinking I should probably salvage the existing piping for cost saving as well as avoiding the hassle of messing with ehwere it penetrates the exterior.

https://imgur.com/a/UP2vr

Thoughts? I'm thinking of Taking apart the existing couplings, re-thread compounding them and then matching them up to the new tank.
 
  #16  
Old 12-29-17, 07:19 PM
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I don't see any unions in that picture so unless there are left/right couplings you will need to cut the piping or else take it apart from the outside and work inward. Left/right couplings were once required in gas piping but I have never seen one. I hate to think what a left-handed pipe die would cost, assuming one could even be found.

But, I DO think that re-using as much as possible is a good idea, economically speaking. My one question would be if the smaller vent line is acceptable to the local officials. Having the vent line the same size as the fill is to preclude pressurizing the tank when filling. Some of the tanker transfer pumps move in excess of 40 gallons per minute.
 
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Old 12-29-17, 09:02 PM
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Assuming It's not all Left thread, Could I just cut it free with a hacksaw near the tank and then replace that segment, using a union?
 
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Old 12-29-17, 09:11 PM
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Unless your LOCAL codes prohibit the use of unions inside the basement that is what I would do.
 
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Old 12-31-17, 01:35 PM
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I'm in Portland OR. Where do you recommend I look for code complained with plumbing for oil carrying pipes?
 
  #20  
Old 12-31-17, 01:43 PM
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Google. Type in RESIDENTIAL OIL TANK CODES IN OREGON and you should find what you need to know.

www.Oregon.gov and type in what you need.
 
 

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