Problem with my Oil Heating Furnace,...

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  #41  
Old 01-07-18, 11:02 PM
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Pictures 1 and 2 are of the same orientations,…. and if you put your recent picture right below it, those two screws are same . ( same screw in your picture, is the same screw on top of it, in my picture ) Black looking surface is ceiling and white looking face is of that Blower assembly.You see a moving notch, for the screw, because, that angle strip of L shape, has a Sealing sticky strip on top of it, adjuscent to ceiling, to prevent any leak of air,..Point is, there is no screws on that L shaped metal strip which can fasten the assembly to the ceiling, so that it can not slide in the channel, back and forth,.. Perhaps that could be in back,..

Same, but different more pictures here,....https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...69264523842563
 
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  #42  
Old 01-07-18, 11:11 PM
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These pics shows,..
if you refer to your picture, then in the left side of Blower assembly, how the ceiling looks,...


Black metal strip, and screw seen,... is fastening the Browser assembly with that strip

and that black strip also moves in channel along with browser assembly,
when you pull it out from the back, I guess,..
 
  #43  
Old 01-07-18, 11:25 PM
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  #44  
Old 01-08-18, 05:41 AM
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The screws come out and the blower assembly slides backwards.
 
  #45  
Old 01-08-18, 06:46 AM
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That might be a furnace where the heads of the bolds or screws are on the upper panel as shone in picture #33 with the silver box(fan relay) and drop in the L bracket. Sometimes we would pull the fan and throw in a box fan or some type like it for summer breezes pointed in there as a temp. Most furnaces are in cellars here.
 
  #46  
Old 01-08-18, 09:44 AM
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Ok saar,.. finally I found the problem,…. ( ofcourse, with the help of u wonderful guys… ) “ Bad rotor wheel of blower “,…with its central hole on shaft largely distorted,… widely widened to double the size,...

Assembly : It was coming out from front,… there was a stop screw, holding it,.. and I removed and pulled it out. Here is what I did,.. I stopped two elec. switches of Unit, one on the Heater ( in side in Red box ) and one above my basement stairs, an another red box,..… .

Pulled the assembly straight out without removing any elec. chords either of those twisted tie - 4 pairs of wires and/or two of capacitors one,…. Someone told me capacitor still holds the charge so do not touch any wires there ,.. do you think I am safe, or should I still found circuit breaker and stop the elec. ckt breaker..too ? all three guys are OFF two switches and Thermostat. Anyway,. Here are new pictures,… and need to buy a right new part now,.. called rotor wheeland later, will have to remove cover plate of assembly and opening the shaft key, sliding in the new wheel and such,…. What is yr opinion, please ? Where to buy, please,.. .



.All new 9 pictures : https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...69553170480365 .

The stop screw: ( below video )At the counter ( below, original video ) 0.09, and counter 0.30 in the lower left, on the Floor, ( vertically down, in-line with copper gas line, where it connects the pump, you see that screw on Floor, that was meant to stop the assembly coming out )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKyMo5iw_U

.
 
  #47  
Old 01-08-18, 10:00 AM
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  #48  
Old 01-08-18, 10:05 AM
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I guess,. the two posts below here here, in the pictures ,.. in that black metal strip the big holes were finger holes, and were meant to insert finger both sides, to pull out the assembly easy way,.. from front,..

Can someone please tell me this exact part number,and description that I need to buy and source
and such,.. thanks.
 
  #49  
Old 01-08-18, 10:39 AM
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Following rust and crust came out when emptying the housing,... I doubt now, that the motor shaft might also have round out, due to wear and tear??

 
  #50  
Old 01-08-18, 12:53 PM
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I need to look the shaft behind the hub closely,.... It’s invisible ,.. I think I will have to remove the plate of cover on top of Assembly........ or may need to take motor’s three screws out too,….. I am not an handyman, so little hesitated,. How do you take out that little screw and hub,..? just remove the screw ?
do you have any perfect video? or,. could you give me part number ( rotor wheel ) and where to purchase,...... idea? Also other precautions and Dos and Don'ts,...


My furnace specifications posted in my post no. 1. Thanks
 
  #51  
Old 01-08-18, 01:00 PM
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In that picture in post 33, on left side you see a white label,...

From that to the edge of that floor, between, you see a metal screw.

That was going down all the way and locking into the channel / Holding the assembly in its place.

I removed it and pulled assembly straight out,..
 
  #52  
Old 01-08-18, 01:07 PM
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The hub comes off when you loosen the set screw. They sometimes require the use of penitrating oil and a hub puller. Others come right off. The motor will have to be removed anyway to install the new wheel.
 
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Old 01-08-18, 02:53 PM
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  #54  
Old 01-08-18, 07:56 PM
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one guy said,.....
It appears the wobbling fan has caused the bearings in the motor to self-destruct. I often see such squirrel cage fan assemblies tossed out behind HVAC suppliers and repair shop locations. I have collected 4 of them over the years, and use them for air circulation in my workshop. You should be able to find one that is not damaged, and will physically fit and can be adapted to your mounting bracket.

I don't know your location, but my collection in the Caribbean tropics will likely not be of much help to you. Generally the same blowers are used in pure A/C systems as well as HVAC combo's.

The multiple wires are usually for variable fan speed settings. My old furnace back in Carolina had 3 speed settings, for both heat and A/C modes.

__________________
why he thinks,...

Motor’s bearing has damaged? Just wondered.

I think,
Only the rotor wheel has damaged and motor must be fine,.. no ? If Lucky,... even the shaft behind the hub where that wheel was mounted must also be in a good shape,..

What is wobbling fan ? the central unit in that upper area’s burning unit ?

I am not a handy man,… New parts from org company costs a lot,.. do you know where to find used part,.... and how ? thx.
 
  #55  
Old 01-08-18, 08:36 PM
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I posted a picture and the Carrier part number previously. It's over $100. You may be able to shop on eBay.
Those small capacitors discharge in minutes. You're ok.

I see what looks like ball bearings in your picture. If those are from the motor then it is dead. I see the hub in the blower wheel is gone. Try wiggling the motor shaft. If it doesn't move the motor should be ok.

Here's the tricky part. You need to remove the setscrew in the shaft hub. You need to spray the motor shaft with a rust penetrant or WD-40 if that's all you have. Unbolt the three bolts that hold the brackets to the housing. You have to pull the motor out the side of the housing while sliding the blower wheel off the shaft. Once the motor is out.... the blower wheel comes out the front.

Since the wheel is broken off the hub..... you can pull the motor out and remove the hub from the shaft with the motor out of the housing. Be very careful not to dent or ding the motor shaft. If you do it makes it much harder to get the broken hub off.
 
  #56  
Old 01-09-18, 02:59 PM
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Saar/s, first of all, thanks for your time, efforts, support, cooperation and interest,...

So, you say,… what it could be bad is,.. .



Rotor wheel ( obviously )

Ball bearings of Motor,..



Most probably, the shaft may also been distorted,..

Motor / capacitor and what not,… ? .

.

I tried to move/wiggle the motor shaft,.. it rotates fine and no play in up/down and/or sideway directions like that rotor,.. so I guess it’s firm, steady and secure,…… also rotates by hand without any noise or friction,. So ball-bearings be also fine,…
 
  #57  
Old 01-09-18, 03:53 PM
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Where do these guys buy Fuel injector nozzle from ? Mine needed is, 0.75, 80degree, B I called all Lowes and Home depot store sin my area and also surfed E-bay, Google shopping and all,….. no one has this particular nozzle,.. .

.
For tune up these two kinds of fuel/oil filters are available at stores, e-bay and around,…. How do you know which one you need,….. ( unless you open and look at previous one? ) .

.

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...Qxg,scoring:tp .
.
.https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...R9g,scoring:tp

.

. I called couple “ Carrier” phone numbers, ( main and authorized dealers/certified repairers,.. they have no knowledge or idea about the Model Nos Adobe/PDF Manuals, nor they give out it freely, nor they have it on net, and they send you to their authorized service agent in the area, and they do the same with you,…



,,,,,
 
  #58  
Old 01-09-18, 04:17 PM
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Carrier has a liability that their equipment performs as built. They cannot have DIY'ers servicing their own equipment as that puts the company at a liability.

Technically..... people like me should not be helping DIY'ers with intricate problems as there is risk involved.

Try these.......
- Universal-Solid-Replacement-Nozzle-Degree/dp/B00FBMR4U6
- Universal-Solid-Replacement-Nozzle-Degree/dp/B00FBMR2AS
- Danfoss-Hago-351-0-75-GPF-Stainless-Solid-Cone-Type-B-Oil-Burner-Nozzle-80-Deg
- HAGO 0.75 GPH 80 DEGREE B-DFN SOLID DUAL FILTRATION NOZZLE
 
  #59  
Old 01-09-18, 05:29 PM
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Thanks for the links, I have bookmarked those,.. ( In Delaware, we have almost none Ace or True Value stores, at least in my area, and also none North East or APR hardware stores,… ).

.

At Counter 0.25 of this video,.. ( oil filter changing )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx9g9P_z5So

The guy says, he is closing the valve,…. But what I see it as,…. Valve is rather more coming out and hence is it not opening of it,…. !! No ? Am I missing something , here ?
 
  #60  
Old 01-10-18, 02:17 PM
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Sir, In DE, the auto junk / salvage yard at New port pike / old airport Road, does not carry, any used HVAC parts, Right ? Or,….. they do carry sometimes? Thanks,..
 
  #61  
Old 01-10-18, 04:45 PM
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Snehasallapam - Malayalam Cinema Reviews, News and Updates - View Single Post - Monalisa's Smiley thread
.
Opened the screw on hub,…. Hub is still non-movable,… may be needing a particular kind of Puller,… Dunn’o my Harbor Freight stores might carry it,…. Most probably not,...

As you see in the pics,.. on the other side of Hub, that eaten away metal piece of the rotor is still sticking……….. and perhaps it has heated and stuck to the hub,… .

Three screws of Motor are also easy to open,.. not that hard,.. just tested those,.. Not opening the Motor screws yet, ………as few community guys are expected to come and look, and I may put the casing and assembly back in the channel, as it was if needed to,…………… more I mess with, they will not touch thereafter,… once they know that someone has messed it all, that one can,…. .

Buying a rotor wheel is cent percent risk, as no size, part number, computability and the central rim/rib and attaching accessories it may come with it not properly,….. hence, My non-handyman skills totally limit me ( putting a cap ) over there,…. .

Govt. help out services, may or may not help/work out ( emergency energy assisting programs ) as they involve,. loads of interviews/meeting, paper works, applications, 3 contract estimate bidding papers to be collected, and after a thorough review, may or may not get approved and they say it can easily 4-6+ weeks,….. so no hope there,… have ordered a kerosene heater so far to beat, east coast’s chilling cold this season,…
 
  #62  
Old 01-10-18, 05:41 PM
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.
Studying it thoroughly,…. The Hub was also an integral part of the squirrel cage rotor and it was in fact the part of the middle plate and not a separate entity, and unlike it creates an impression here,........ it was on just one sided, and there was no duplicate mirror portion on other side of the plate,..
.
.Plus, how far the distance was maintained from the ball bearing of the motor to the hub’s Plate’s face was stil a question,.. perhaps, the rotor cage was eye-bowled in the center of the whole assembly and the hub screw was tightened,.. am I right ?
 
  #63  
Old 01-10-18, 07:42 PM
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Yes..... the hub is part of the blower wheel. The hub is placed thru the blower wheel and then crimped with a big press. That crimp let loose on your wheel. It may have been from the wheel being excessively out of balance.

Knock that piece of metal off the hub if in the way.

Pull the motor and shaft and hub thru the wheel to get the motor out where it's easier to work on.

The hub WILL NOT be easy to remove from the shaft. You can try a lubricant. Emery cloth on the shaft will remove rust and crap and allow it to slide easier. Do not use any tools on the shaft as dings or hammer blows will make it harder to remove the hub. You can heat the hub to make it easier to remove.

I posted this previously... Carrier part # LA22LZ111 blower wheel
 
  #64  
Old 01-10-18, 10:49 PM
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Thanks for the guidance,…. Good to know that, never apply any hammer kind of force,…. It seems if it remove successfully and shaft is not distorted, then it’s easy to put the brand new one, exact part,...



These guys have this exact part,….

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...e6ASwQ8wIIUjAA .

Carrier LA22LZ111 | Wheels | FurnacePartSource.com .

Parts generally do not open that easily no matter you spary WD40 every hour for weeks,…

.

My Presto pressure cooker’s interlock mechanism ( pop-up button ) was already in the lid, ( it had threads where one part goes inside the other ( picture below ) and assembly is on cooker’s Lid,…. Aluminum old button, a very little rusted, after certain use,..I tried for weeks WD 40 and later immersed the whole assembly with the cooker lid in kerosene for weeks and the threads still not opening,.. .

85407 Pressure Cooker Interlock, Fits Presto Univen Parts to fit Presto Pressure Cookers - Pressure Cooker Parts - By Univen #85407 - 744539068857 at Goodman's Small Appliances Housewares and Parts .

( where the white gasket is, the bottom parts goes into top part, by thread turning ) gasket is broken and now to replace new, I can not open old part,.. ) I will have to take it to Lowes for someone to cut it with Hacksaw,..
 
  #65  
Old 01-10-18, 10:58 PM
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  #66  
Old 01-11-18, 08:31 AM
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The hub's bore is round. (?) The shaft has a flat spot for the screw to tighten against. The hub will spin on the shaft. A guy told me..


A Boulden guy was here, for free replacement estimate and from his chart he said the furnace is 33+ yrs old made /installed somewhere from 1983-89 year and is only 75 percent efficient,... ( per Modern technology of burning )


Sold here too : https://www.amazon.com/Bryant-Carrie...ords=LA22LZ111
 

Last edited by rakesh15; 01-11-18 at 08:58 AM.
  #67  
Old 01-11-18, 08:57 AM
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Efficiency is unknown. But easily calculated via combustion analysis. Which should be done every season along with a general maintenance and cleaning.
With even a brand new modern oil furnace, you’ll still be in the 80% range for efficiency.
 
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Old 01-11-18, 10:01 AM
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Rakesh15
Boulden guy was here, for free replacement estimate and from his chart he said the furnace is 33+ yrs old made /installed somewhere from 1983-89 year and is only 75 percent efficient,... ( per Modern technology of burning )

Keep that old boiler. Old cast iron boilers often can be more efficient by spending $300 Out Door Reset (modern aquastat), automatic vent damper, a smaller nozzle then keeping them clean. Why spend 10 times that for new one.

Most boilers are over sized. Smaller nozzle increases efficiency and still have plenty of excess capacity. Also newer boiler are harder to clean and maintain efficiency.

Life span of cast iron boilers has not been established. Some are 80 years old. My 60 year old Weil McLain Model 57A measured efficiency is 85% with firing rate reduced 50% to 0.80 GPH. Runs 8 hours a day at 0F outside temp.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Tekmar-2...iler-4150000-p

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-059...Vent-3679000-p

It is easy to accurcately find current heat load then select smaller nozzzle with clock wired to burner solenoid.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC100-250V-...19.m1438.l2649

For a period of time log run time, oil consumption and degree days. Crunch data to find actual firing rate and degree days per gallon. Then calculate run time on coldest day. My burner runs 8 hours/day at 0F.
 

Last edited by doughess; 01-11-18 at 10:25 AM.
  #69  
Old 01-11-18, 05:34 PM
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Yup,…... saar,……. I agree. ……..Old is Gold..

Blast in da Past !

. When I was a kid,….. in Asia, we had this kinda home water Boiler Heater ( 6 decades ago ) made of Copper / Brass. You insert the Coal pieces / Charcoal / wooden sticks,…in the center, ( there remains a grate at bottom,..give it a fire with Kerosene dipped dirty clothes,… and Bingo ! Water is ready and 4 people can easily take bath,.. you keep adding the water,.. It still works today and very efficiently,…..!!

http://www.snehasallapam.com/4096263-post25017.html



.
 
  #70  
Old 01-11-18, 10:00 PM
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Rakesh15, sorry for the late joining of your thread. The Boulden guy is correct on the furnace's age. That furnace was made by Ducane & sold under quite a few brand names. Over the years, I've worked on hundreds of them & the vast majority were found to have cracked heat exchangers once a proper inspection was done.
 
  #71  
Old 01-12-18, 04:09 PM
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^^ Thank you fir Chip-in,.. saar,.. .

.

Real bad luck,..

..
Opened the motor finally,…and took it out,… Shaft found at the other side, behind the hub in a very bad situation.

.

I guess now ,… it also need to replace shaft / motor as a whole perhaps,..and much much more, as even if…… I installed a new rotor wheel, this shaft will breakdown in a month or less,…. ! I am glad I still did not order that rotor wheel part,… I dunn’o what to do,……
.

Hub is still tight on shaft, and will need WD 40 and other applications, ( I may take it to nearby Lowes for help.. ) but now on this last leg shaft,…. it has no meaning. Right ? Also the old rotor wheel never came out yet, as it needs to open other 4 screws of that circular inside metal plate, which should be taken out first,..…
.


New pictures of bad shaft here :

.
About 15, new pictures posted here :

.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

.


Any idea, what next be done?
 

Last edited by rakesh15; 01-12-18 at 04:36 PM.
  #72  
Old 01-12-18, 06:20 PM
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More here "

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

( Scroll the Horizonal arrows at end)
 
  #73  
Old 01-12-18, 06:44 PM
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That shaft is in very bad shape. I'm afraid it might be worn to the point where it will no longer spin true without wobbling.

In the picture we can see where the hub was and where it is now. It has moved. Two ways to get the hub off..... cut the shaft shorter and use a gear/pulley puller or find any piece of junk pulley that fits the shaft. Put it on and tighten setscrew. Now you hold this pulley with pliers or channel lock pliers and turn the hub with another pair of channel lock pliers. The hub will break free.

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My forum partner Grady mentioned the heat exchanger.
If that is cracked it would not be cost effective to go any further.
 
  #74  
Old 01-12-18, 07:29 PM
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There’s no reason to remove the hub, that motor is junk. And your not going to reuse the hub.
You’ll need at least a motor and wheel.
 
  #75  
Old 01-12-18, 07:42 PM
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Saar, I am confused. Pardon my ignorance,.. but,….



What is the remedy ?

.

Do I need to buy a new shaft too, or it comes as an integral with motor…. and hence a new motor ? .

If shaft and motor is now useless, what is the meaning of struggling to take out the hub, for ? New Hub is already coming with a new rotor wheel that you buy,.. No ? .

Does the shaft comes a little grooved behind the hub, or it has happened after being eaten away ? .

Why the shaft, next to the ball-bearing area has not that flattened face ? ( one side flattened ) .



. I did not struggle yet to remove the Hub or spraying any WD 40 on it,.. or so,.. ! The question is,.. is the shaft and/or Motor any useful now,.. or it’s all over…. and they are done ( fully damaged ? ) !
 
  #76  
Old 01-12-18, 07:47 PM
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Is shaft replaceable ? If so,.. rough price ? How much Motor costs ? Can anyone give me this part number/s too, please? Thx.
.
.How the Hub can move,.(?). it was secured with screw and screw was not any distorted,..

.

The part, I also don't understand,.. how the shaft was centered centrally in the casing's hole? ( having shaft and casing holes' center-line coinciding,... ??
As, a little more or less tightening of any of the three screws, the motor can be easily become non-eccentrically installed ! No ?
 
  #77  
Old 01-12-18, 08:27 PM
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The motor shaft isn’t replaceable.
The wheel breaking free of the hub with the motor spinning caused the shaft damage.
The flat side of the motor shaft isn’t run all the way into the motor shell. It’s simply an attachment point.
Your likely looking at around a couple hundred dollars in parts, at wholesale cost.
That’s if the heat exchanger isn’t cracked. Which would render your furnace useless.
 
  #78  
Old 01-12-18, 08:42 PM
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To check that, the heat exchanger is not cracked,.. do you need a professional,…. Or,.. you can also have a slightest idea while looking at that circular window door or,…. Opening those fuel injector nozzle areas,.. ?
 
  #79  
Old 01-12-18, 08:47 PM
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Can an expert level of street handy-man mechanic who keeps many used motors and can even opens the motor and can do fixes / recycles,… may install other loose motor and take this old back and fixes later ( just like those people do with Car’s Alternator ) , Could it be, that way …… if contacted any church’s local mechanic ??
 
  #80  
Old 01-13-18, 07:48 AM
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There isn’t any fix for that motor. You’ll need the exact replacement or a replacement if he same motor specifications.
Heat exchanger is both visually inspected and checked via combustion analysis. Usually the burner can be removed entirely for a thorough inspection.
I’d suggest someone in the hvac industry over a general handyman.
I do a lot of service work for churches. Their general maintenance personnel aren’t set up nor do they have the knowledge for hvac repair.
 
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