Problem with my Oil Heating Furnace,...

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  #1  
Old 01-06-18, 09:03 PM
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Problem with my Oil Heating Furnace,...

Problem about my Oil heating furnace in my home, By “Carrier”,.. ( makes very loud explosive noises, inside the fire-chamber,.. where the ignition takes place ) Below ( link ) are the pictures of my Home’s Oil / Diesel heating furnace, situated in my basement,… roughly 15+ yrs old,…. Using oil / diesel / no.2 oil,…. Specification of my Oil furnace ( please also see 15 pictures in a link, given below ) Carrier , Model 58HUO85101CA, Serial :W556606

Bonnet : 85.0000BTU

Furnace No : 731074

DUCANE Models : DMR-10A, 0.76 GPH Fuel injector Nozzle : 0.75, 80 degree, B For last few days, due to the extreme heavy winter in east coast and running a little more,.. it has started making loud explosive kinda noises,….. ( as if, suppose,….you drop a toaster/microwave oven / big - hugh empty tin-can ,…..down the stairs and how loud noises, it makes,.. ) It starts very usual and normal,… ( I played with, reset button..on the motor as well as on unit many times watching all YT videos ) Starts very normal and smooth,…..with no problem,.. but after 2-3 minutes of sound running, it starts making noises like you drop a microwave down the stairs,… same kind of noises,… coming from inside the ignition chamber where fire takes place,… These sounds are not from the fan / elec. motor / pump which are outside ( when you take off the frontal cover ) . No valves are closed,… though I did not do any fuel injector changing or oil filter changing in last 6 years and also used the heater very little too, in last 6 yrs,… . Furnace is just for house-heating (HVAC) and no water- heater work is attach้ dto it,.. I am a simple house-hold person and not any technician or craftsman or handyman at all,.. I cant not afford hugh amounts for inspection nor can replace the furnace,… Can do the tune-up myself at the best,.. I bought fuel injector nozzle,… fule filter,… bleeding plastic tube,.. to do the prime,…. Below are the pictures and specifications,.. I have posted all pictures ( 15 pictures ) here, taken by my Cell.https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...68653137237035 It has these kind of construction as per this video… In the center is the Fan, right side the electric motor and Left side the Webster pump,…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EDVdGMzBEA I am to plan these, but it will not solve the problem as per my guess,… ( general tune-up )
  1. Will do bleeding / prime of oil pump on the unit and will remove bubbles and air ( till straight jet of fuel appears. Have seen many videos on YT, so am comfortable with this .
  2. Will change oil / fuel filter with 2 small red gaskets and 1 black gasket ting there, have seen many videos on YT, so remain comfortable. Bought from Lowes for around 4 dollars,..
  3. Will take the two electrode and fuel jet nozzle out and will replace with new nozzle and will set the angle and position of electrode straight,.. etc, have seen many YT videos..
  4. Later, if needed, can open the pump’s cover and a small filer inside can be cleaned,.. // risky though, of finding and replacing the gaskets though and leaving more air bubble sin line,..
Can anyone assist with, what is making those sounds as if a big( hugh ) empty,.. tin can/box you drop it down the stairs,… No obvious sound is coming from the motor or bearing or pump , out of shaft,.. but it’s from within the fire chamber, and I have to stop the furnace after every 2-4 minutes, Coz I feel like it will explode like a bomb,.. Is it due to incomplete combustion / air in line / electrode out of angle broken / bent./ loosened ? Any idea,… ?

Thanks.

 
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  #2  
Old 01-07-18, 04:50 AM
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That sounds like a symptom of "delayed ignition" (caused by a build up of vaporized fuel in the combustion chamber before actual ignition occurs).

In my own case(s), I have brought an end to this explosion by cleaning and properly gapping the Electrodes and by replacing the Nozzle (which just happened to be done at the same time as the re-positioning of the Electrodes).

You may find that your Transformer is weakening. Other causes may come to the minds of others who'll respond later.

I'm not a Plumber or HVAC Technician . . . . just a fellow DIY HomeOwner who's had similar problems.
 

Last edited by Vermont; 01-07-18 at 05:07 AM.
  #3  
Old 01-07-18, 05:21 AM
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When was the furnace last cleaned, PMed and tuned up?
 
  #4  
Old 01-07-18, 10:26 AM
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Sir/s, I appreciate for your time, cooperation and interest,… Thanks for assisting,…. I did not ( What is PMed ? ) clean up or tuned up in last 6+ yrs and also had not used the furnace much either, as I used my portable oil radiator heater , since only one person is living in house,.. Yess the air filter is clean and it is in the side, at the bottom and washable without any replacing for the new one,.. I opened the bottom, frontal cover and there is a big white box of perhaps a blowing fan inside and that makes all those terrible noise,…

I have taken the pictures and video of those, just now.

Photos ( just taken of noise making part ) : https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...69003843868631 Please advise me,…. What it seems and sounds like,.. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsDgidXIgUY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKyMo5iw_U
https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...68653137237035
 
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Last edited by rakesh15; 01-07-18 at 10:38 AM. Reason: added pic from link
  #5  
Old 01-07-18, 10:37 AM
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That is the blower compartment in the picture. It sounds like the squirrel cage blower wheel is hitting inside the blower housing. That housing should be removable for inspection.
 
  #6  
Old 01-07-18, 10:49 AM
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As seen in the above picture ( my above post ) , the part ( Fan in bottom compartment ( Blower ? ) - White big enclosure at bottom ) Is fan shaft is out or such ?.

The two videos of youtube ( I just took them ) is taken by my cell of my own furnace just an hour ago, so please take a look and advise me,.. .



Also My fuel injector is 0.75, 80 degree B,.. but at Lowes I could find only the0.75, 80 degree H. Is it ok, to replace H for original B? What it stand for ? Do I need to replace electrodes too ?

.

Kindly look at the FB pictures and videos ( links in my above post ) ( I made it public ,to advise me, if you could not open it before….. please. Thanks ) .

Photos and videos I posted here…https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...69003843868631 .
 

Last edited by rakesh15; 01-07-18 at 11:12 AM.
  #7  
Old 01-07-18, 11:17 AM
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I looked at the videos. You have a defective blower wheel or possible loose motor. The blower assembly is held in the furnace with two or four screws/bolts. You need to pull out the assembly to check it. I posted a picture below of what you have there. It's not yours but very similar. In your picture you are looking at the front. The motor is on the left side. With the blower assembly in place you could verify that the motor screws are tight.

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I can't give you much help on the oil burner. That is not my specialty area. I recommend to all my customers to have an oil burner cleaned and checked every year.
 
  #8  
Old 01-07-18, 11:20 AM
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I would forget about the burner, that is not your problem.

It definitely sounds like your blower. You have some wires in the blower compartment on the floor.

With the power off disconnect one of the wire from the control to the blower. I cannot see clearly what you have but if connected with wire nuts, just remove a wire to cut power to blower and see if that does it.

If so it's in the blower which must be repaired.

Hope this helps a little.
 
  #9  
Old 01-07-18, 11:51 AM
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Your not doing yourself any favors by doing no maintenance in over 6 years. The soot can be like concrete. And the unit may not be running very efficiently.
 
  #10  
Old 01-07-18, 12:09 PM
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Sir/s,… btw,.. first of all, thank you for assisting me,…. Two other similar forums ( HVAC-talk and hvacpro ) btw, declined assisting me at my first post, first day, as a new member........... on first day, first post and also have banned me, saying this is for PRO guys,… go somewhere DIY or so,...… !.

.I guess, I have defective blower wheel,.. Sir/s you are absolutely right,.. I lighted that bottom compartment area, and on left side of the shown motor ( in your picture ) I have the air filter ( 4x3 feet rectangle roughly ) also a rectangular opening to suck the air passed thro' the air filter,....and very tight space, but I could see and feel the elec. motor that you are showing it was tightly fastened,.. ( no loose there ) but on the opposite side from the round opening hole I could feel with hand that same wheel found loose and I can little bit move up and down / sideways,… so its loose and making noise,…inside that casing,… !

.
I am not a handyman to open and fix ( narrow space there and no idea how it's attached to the motor and elec components,.. so will have to order for any small handyman, I guess,… Though, trying to look in YT videos,...

.
If you have any literature / video about how that area looks like and how difficult to tighten the loosened screws,.. pl. guide me,..

.
When you start the furnace,... the fire takes place and you can see from windows, but after 2-4 min when temp is reached,.... the fire stops ( no more burning you see in the round window ) and then Blower is forcing the air and when blower starts it makes noise,.. so initial 2-4 minutes,.. no noise,....
 
  #11  
Old 01-07-18, 12:15 PM
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The blower assembly slides out. If the wheel is damaged it will have to be replaced. Why is it moving up and down? Is the motor mount broken? Or the bearings in the motor no good?
 
  #12  
Old 01-07-18, 12:27 PM
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Sir I agree, I was loose on taking preventive maintenance care, of furnace,.. but again,… I use no A/c in any summer and I used very little for heating,..in each winter, rather say,.. extremely little use of furnace,...

Sir, I just took an another video of that blower area compartment, and you can see the motor on left side,… area is tight, so my hands can not go that far,….. but you can sound the noise, and see, that left area is fastened good and no loose thingies at motor side there ,… .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWcfZMe5aRQ

.
 
  #13  
Old 01-07-18, 12:35 PM
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Your have to pull the blower. Sounds like the wheel or hub came apart.
 
  #14  
Old 01-07-18, 12:36 PM
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Up and down means, a little play , what I mean….

Say,….If you hold a pencil in your left hand tight, at the pencil’s one end,At that other end, you may not move it up or down but at the end of pencil, no matter how you hold tight with left hand, it will be still having a play of little up and down and side ways,.. that’s what I felt,..

.
 
  #15  
Old 01-07-18, 12:41 PM
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Yes you’ll have to pull it and inspect why
 
  #16  
Old 01-07-18, 12:58 PM
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I don’t have a job right now, so have an appointment with Govt emergency dept….since running low on budget,.. I guess I will watch these vdos here first and see if I can at least open housing and see what is how far loose and damaged,..

All three sides are closed, not any room to open it,.. unless I see the videos of how to remove housing first at least,..

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...heater+furnace
 
  #17  
Old 01-07-18, 01:04 PM
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It slides out backwards.
It doesn’t sound loose. It sounds damaged.
 
  #18  
Old 01-07-18, 01:26 PM
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You don't have to remove any housings. The blower unit is designed to be serviced and is removable.

That uses a double blower wheel. That means it draws air in from both sides. It is part # LA22LZ111

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This video shows removing a blower.
Should be close. you tube/WATCH ME=TcFfBPxQntU

Not much service info online. Public/08/58H-2PD.pdf
 
  #19  
Old 01-07-18, 01:26 PM
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Looking at YT third party videos it seems, I can not do it by myself,…it’s not simple but a way more complicated,. As it could be motor, shaft, ball bearings, distorted blower wheel,. Or any thing. …………………..Plus my furnace sits in a tight area, ………………for right side of it, not much room,... Left side is naturally a vent in which the air filter is in ,…. Only backside can be opened, I guess,…. I think,. I will need an expertise, as it’s not easy task to get right part and so electro-mechanical work,.. for any non-handy man,..
 
  #20  
Old 01-07-18, 01:37 PM
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The blower slides straight out. Nothing needs to be opened up or cut.
The burner needs to be serviced and set up with a combustion analyzer. Even after low use, slime starts to grow in the fuel and clog up the filters and pump screen, and grow in the bottom of the tank.
The heat exchanger also needs to be cleaned. With a soot vacuum and brushes.
Not doing maintenance will result in the unit using excessive amounts of fuel and not running as efficiently as it could. Which comes out of your pocket.
I suggest tuneups for oil yearly.
Fixing you blower will require some tools and at least a little bit of handy skills.
 
  #21  
Old 01-07-18, 01:44 PM
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I think, it’s a way way out of my handy-man’s capacity that I can do the work,… I may contact the govt agencies to help me out, for any expertise hiring,…if you know anyone reasonable in Delaware ( 19701 ) area, let me know please,..
 
  #22  
Old 01-07-18, 01:50 PM
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I live in Delaware. Bear is an hour north of me.
Try Oliver. They just replaced 3 furnaces for free for families in need.
My company doesn’t do residential work.
 
  #23  
Old 01-07-18, 02:11 PM
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Sir , I live in Bear, DE Jamestowne,… school bell road,..,. u must be knowing,..this area pretty well,…I guess,….

This problem started a day before yesterday,..( in hard winter ) yesterday, a sears guy came and,..had estimated for a new furnace for 9400+ dollars of estimate, ( assuming, that I was in a process of calling other charity unions,… etc to help me out,. ) he was for a free estimate so did not check anything technically, but had given me a rough oral,.. idea of oil filter and fuel injector nozzle dirty,.. and also I learnt and saw,.. prime / Bleeding process to remove air bubble,.. for which, I had seen many YT videos and thought if it was that simple,… I could do it of replacing,…. I bought those parts ( filter, nozzle, bleeding tube) too yesterday,.. but now it seems about motor/blower/shaft/ball-bearing/ blower wheel or anything, and not a simple tune-up item,.. So, tune-up was not a major issue,.. .

But now these blower and motor/shaft/ bearing and all big seems remain out of my caliber,.. also having no right tools…. I have appmt. at Hudson center ( govt assting / SS services for emergency agency, 2 days later.. ) .

I contacted Horizon, Lowes also for free estimates if they do home repairs, contacted also Home depots all stores and branches sin DE,.. ( they don’t carry,… even right part of right fuel nozzle ) On, e-bay and goggle shopping ( which covers ebay, amazon and al stores ) could not find right nozzle,.. No one is ready for free diagnosis they all charge 90-99 bucks for just home visits and even if you get the work done, that amount remains separate.. ! But now, I at least know the affected area,.. .

I contacted all stores and no1 was having kerosene heaters,….. so ordered from Walmart on-line store, finally,… which will take 5-7 other days to arrive,.. ( I Have, oil radiator heaters , though they can not pick up and beat the 2-7 degree F , here in DE, now,..
 

Last edited by rakesh15; 01-07-18 at 02:41 PM.
  #24  
Old 01-07-18, 02:23 PM
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Sadly, our oil supplier Discount oil, do not offer free tune up, free maintenance or look over your furnace at all,.. even, after buying 100s of dollars of oil,.. ( via catholic charity ).



I contacted, following companies,…

.

Servicemark, Boulden, Hillside, Horizon, Sears, Homestar, Carrier, Scahagringas, Servicetoday, Calvert, few private guys of home depot and Lowes,… but No free diagnostic or relaxed prices,….. they all charge 89-90+ dollars just to come and look at only,.. plus, parts and labor extra,. No matter you get the work done,…. All free estimate guys are to force to buy new furnace and they are sales person, knows nothing technically,.. .. so they know as much as you(me) know about furnaces .

Also, contacted catholic church charity people, NC county’s helping department, Newark senior citizen center, first state community action, adopt family group, warm the heart . org, 211 and such organization,.. all were mostly closed and no valid help yet,…. So much paper work, may be couple days later,. And that even if u remain, eligible for applying for help,…
 

Last edited by rakesh15; 01-07-18 at 02:44 PM.
  #25  
Old 01-07-18, 02:55 PM
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Sir, it seems like you are in,.. say, lower DE, say Smyrna, or Dover area or so,…. ! If you are in the same very business, and have any other friend circles / handyman kinda friends in my area,… that you know, and since.,…. now you know the exact problem, almost,…you may suggest them to me,…. I may take and pull out the housing / blower assembly,…and even supply to their shop,…. Not in hurry even takes 2-3 days,.. I am on my oil radiator heater,…. and will also pay reasonably. You may also suggest me any pvt. handyman in my area, and your talk to him will save his diagnosis efforts and sure I will pay him,....Looking at Blower assembly videos, It’s out of my reach to fix by myself,..
 
  #26  
Old 01-07-18, 04:20 PM
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I can feel your pain but tradesman are not recommended in the forums. No personal information, email addresses, phone numbers are allowed to be posted in the forums.
 
  #27  
Old 01-07-18, 04:45 PM
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This is how it looks on the back area of my heater. A whole single plate, all the way,… https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...69143900521292
.There is just a single whole plate and its upper face is, tight air-sealed with the metal duct surface there………………… and also fastened with screws and sealed,….. Also, there remains a copper fuel line and some other pvc pipe in the way, ( as shown in picture ) hence, it’s not possible to pull that blower assembly simply out from the back, I guess,…
 
  #28  
Old 01-07-18, 04:49 PM
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Ok saar. np.


.


Can one, PM the messages for that ? That will suffice the purpose of, to save privacy and also to serve the intimate help.
 
  #29  
Old 01-07-18, 04:56 PM
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Personal information is fine in a PM.
 
  #30  
Old 01-07-18, 05:54 PM
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I don’t know of anyone offhand. But I’ll keep it in mind.
When I was young my parents lived in Cambridge Gardens off Wilton Blvd, between Applebee Road and Rt 40. Very close to School Bell Road. I still go through there often, I have some customers in that area.
Maybe your church knows of someone.
 
  #31  
Old 01-07-18, 07:35 PM
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That's a good idea,..... I will call them,.... for last two days, almost everything is closed due to bad weather,..

One gentleman at an other area,... came up with this opinion after those vdo-watch,.. and description of problem...

Sounds like there is an object bouncing around inside of the blower wheel, I can hear it hitting the blades. Get yourself a small mirror that extends and a good light, shut the power off to the unit and try to get a visual with the mirror to see if you can see something laying inside of the blower wheel. If it is an object foreign to the furnace maybe you can simply remove the object without pulling the blower. If it does appear to be part of the blower wheel assembly you will need to pull the whole thing out and do a repair.

As far as replacing the Solid (B) nozzle with a hollow I think you will be ok. As far as the electrodes, you need to look at them to see if they need replaced, they should have points on them and not be flattened on the ends or have the tips burnt off. Make sure to spend a little time reading how to set the electrodes if they need resetting.
 
  #32  
Old 01-07-18, 07:38 PM
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You said the wheel is moving up and down in the housing. That would not be just something bouncing around in the wheel.
 
  #33  
Old 01-07-18, 08:06 PM
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In this picture, as you see,.. on the right side of the blower, there remains a little space and a circular hole is there on rotor ( in right ) and hence,... I turned off all switches and inserted a hand inside that hollow area,.. My hand can feel the flat area of main shaft, also some little key button on shaft, ,.. that i saw in video and also half way of the rotor, touching that center plate of rotor which makes two halves of rotor,.. . it feels like clean,....did not catch any iron rust or any foreign object either,... my hands never got any iron rust,.... but Yess,....the loose play is more and I can make that rotary blower ( squirrel cage like ) wheel to touch all sides of the casings / housings .....and that's what it makes the noise,..... Rotor is fastened loose, or ball-bearings or smthg may have broken, loose hub,... whatever may it be,.. but due to that play I could make the rotor wheel touching all sides of the casings,...

Now,..This assembly can not be pulled out from the front, so it will have to be from back and must will have to open the back cover, I guess and for that,..must
release the all 4 sets of wires, as seen in the above picture,. to pull assembly out,...
also, there may be other 1-2 wired connections on back to be pulled out too and then, slide the whole assembly out. Am I right, in my understanding ?
 
  #34  
Old 01-07-18, 08:12 PM
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No, the blower pulls backwards out the service door.
 
  #35  
Old 01-07-18, 08:23 PM
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No material is on line for my Model as described in my post 1, here ..May be I will look my home-manual,…. when I had purchased the house and Brochure was perhaps may had given…… or will call, “Carrier” for any available manual,.. .https://aerobasegroup.com/part-numbe...CA_01-202-2028 .https://nationalstocknumber.info/par...01CA_012022028
 
  #36  
Old 01-07-18, 08:28 PM
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It pulls backwards out the opening. As pretty much all furnaces do.
The manual will likely not tell you basic things like blower removal. And you need to figure out what’s wrong before you order parts.
 
  #37  
Old 01-07-18, 09:01 PM
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Could be different too,.. not sure,..... will ask Carrier tomorrow,..
.

.
An Opinion,,,,
.


I am not sure which way it needs to come out, I am not sure why you couldn't pull it out through the opening in the picture (maybe the lip of the cabinet is in the way, maybe not). You will need to turn the power off to the furnace. Mark all wires that you need to disconnect with masking tape and write on the tape to know which wire goes back where if colors are alike. Should be 4 bolts (2 on each side) that go up through into the furnace cabinet that you will need to remove to free the housing. That little shiny box with the 2 wires going to it on the side of the blower assembly is a capacitor. They can hold a charge, so use caution. Insulated pliers to remove wires from capacitor, then insulated screwdriver across both posts of capacitor to release the charge.

Once you get the entire assembly out, then you will have to remove the blower wheel from the motor shaft, there will be a set screw holding the blower to the shaft. I guess you won't know what you need to do to repair this until you get it out and can see for sure what the problem is.
However,.....



I guess, if you look this picture and two ( upper area ) screws, right there,…. there should be other set of two screws which fastens the assembly to the upper ceiling, and it is not in the front,.... so it must be on the back, as per the above video too,….and hence, when that two screws once removed,… will release the assembly and can be pulled out,.. and perhaps, that from the back door ( behind the assembly, seen here )

Also, if you loosened those 4 set of wires ( as seen on floor ) ,.. why you need to again loosen the two wires from capacitor, let it be attached to,.. No ?

Also, why you think that there be two screws fastening to the ceiling in the sides, too? I saw them in no videos !
 
  #38  
Old 01-07-18, 09:07 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/utpal.yadav...69143900521292 <== see pics.
.
Back cover is sealed with metal Duct opening with sealing materials air-tight, and rest no screws are on back cover to unfasten it..... and open it so easily, also copper pipes and pvc pipe ( coming from ground ) in the way,...
.

It's not atypical vented back cover with 4-6 screws , easy to open,... No ?
 
  #39  
Old 01-07-18, 09:13 PM
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Edge of upper duct is resting right on the back cover,...... and is sealed air-tight..

Could the stopping screws ( assembly holding to the ceiling ) in side ??
 
  #40  
Old 01-07-18, 09:42 PM
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We need a picture to see the top of the blower housing.
You may have to put the camera on the floor pointing up.

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