Oil Furnace have to reset it almost daily.

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  #41  
Old 03-15-20, 09:00 AM
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Grady: Two pipe fuel systems are propably the worst thing you can have to keep a burner's fuel system clean.
Filtration is better on two pipe than one pipe systems. Two pipe systems by-pass flow that has been filtered back to tank. Next time around it is pre-filtered. You might say double filtered.

Another two pipe system plus is self priming. With remote outside oil tank that is important.

I have never found any debris in pump screen filter so stopped wasting tine checking it. The coarse screen does not filter out fine particle, only big ones that were already stop and other filters.

Am using 0.65 GPM nozzle, so filtration is important here. Even with dual, coarse & fine filters had bronze filter on nozzle clog after several years of service.
 

Last edited by doughess; 03-15-20 at 09:22 AM.
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  #42  
Old 03-15-20, 01:29 PM
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Doug,
I worked on oil burners every day for more than 30 years. That equates to thousands of systems. I will guarantee a system without a return line will deliver cleaner fuel to the burner than one with a return. A return keeps the junk in the tank stirred up which would be great if the contamination in the tank was of a finite quantity & size. It is not. Also, in cold weather & an outdoor tank, a single line will deliver warmer oil to the burner. Warm oil burns better than does cold oil.
 
  #43  
Old 03-15-20, 06:14 PM
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I became a DIYer when professionals could not solve problem. Fortunately I have long experience solving complex technical problems. Residential heating systems are relatively simple. Over the years have seen many HVAC professionals with poor technical understanding and often erroneous concepts.

Post on DIY to help DIYers. Readers have to judge with posts to believe. It may add credibility that mine come without guarantees.
 

Last edited by doughess; 03-15-20 at 06:30 PM.
  #44  
Old 03-15-20, 09:21 PM
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Hi Doughess,

All great suggestions and in fact I installed the Honeywell 2-line display Primary controller R7284U1004 which was really simple upgrade - took about 15 minutes not including the time to crimp connectors on all the existing wires and running another power line from the aquastat to the Primary controller so it always had power (retain history and diagnostics). In all honesty it gives a bit more info but not that much. What really nailed the intermittent failure was that I was there when it happened and could trouble shoot under the exact conditions.

But I'm afraid my pump issue may not have been avoided, even with those excellent improvements (of which I have some installed), the system was originally installed in this house about 30 years ago - so the pump failure does not surprise me.

I'm curious your opinion on leaving a pressure gauge on the oil pump permanently. I've heard differing opinions from various techs on this subject - some claiming it is not a good idea to do so others saying it's fine.

Also - what's your preference for oil line feeds - top or bottom better. For bottom some techs advise that the tank be slightly tilted towards the bottom exit, place a filter at the exit point so it is below the bottom of the tanks (water and sludge will migrate to the filter). What do you think?

One supply line v two supply lines - I agree - one supply line is actually better - but through a tiger loop on there and your golden - best of both worlds.
 

Last edited by TheMadNucleus; 03-15-20 at 11:24 PM.
  #45  
Old 03-16-20, 03:50 AM
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Doughess,

Thank you for the extensive yet good information. While it all looks great, I think a lot of that would be beyond my comfort level of trying to install.

At any rate, I appreciate all the good information, and will be going through it once I get things up and running again, and see what I can get done by myself, and find someone with more knowledge than I to help with some of the rest of it. I don't have much access to the line going from the tank to the furnace itself as goes into the concrete right by my tank, and comes out right by my furnace so adding things to it, could prove somewhat tricky. Nonetheless I will look into it anyhow and see what can be done.

MadNucleus, how's your furnace running? Hoping all is still functioning as it should.
 
  #46  
Old 03-16-20, 06:30 AM
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Hi Karlbird,

I feel more comfortable that it's resolved now - 5 days solid - no lockouts - running wonderfully

TMN
 
  #47  
Old 03-16-20, 06:32 AM
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TMN,

That's great to hear! I'm hoping I'll be right there with you soon! Tonight will be a big step in the right direction.
 
  #48  
Old 03-16-20, 08:01 AM
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TheMadNucleus I'm curious your opinion on leaving a pressure gauge on the oil pump permanently. I've heard differing opinions from various techs on this subject - some claiming it is not a good idea to do so others saying it's fine.
On some liquid pumps pulsating output can cause problems with gauges. Liquid in gauges dampens pulses. https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/contr...+liquid+fiquid

Old Wives Tales are commonly seen in DIY posts. Many old line professionals keep repeating invalid data. I have used liquid filled gauges for many years. Use a unfilled gauge and you can see needle pulsate. Ultimately gauge bearing shafts will fail and needle falls off.

One line systems can be fine for simple installations with tank nearby burner. My neighbor has that. When his oil ran out and pump sucked in air, after fill, I had to prime his. Two pipe systems are self priming and have other benefits. What ever floats your boat.

A reliable source of clean fuel is major factor in oil burners. Very basic and important so good thing to emphasize.
 

Last edited by doughess; 03-16-20 at 09:24 AM.
  #49  
Old 03-16-20, 09:55 AM
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  #50  
Old 03-16-20, 01:01 PM
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Grady's introduction of Tiger Loop Oil De-Aerator just adds unnecessary confusion to this tread.

Air has less than 20% oxygen. Oil burners are typically set up with 150% air needed to obtain complete combustion. A few more air bubbles might actually help, but cannot guarantee it.
 
  #51  
Old 03-16-20, 05:53 PM
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I don't know where doughess got the idea of oil burners being normally set up for 150% excess air. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/b...5%20for%20coal
 
  #52  
Old 03-16-20, 06:13 PM
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doughess please reference the technical manual that states oil burners are set up with 150% air.
 
  #53  
Old 03-16-20, 07:21 PM
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Grady look at the chart in your link. Most of the curves cross along the 50% Excess Air line. Do not split hairs.

Many texts use 150% as common number

My point was that excess air is a Must. How much is secondary.

Tiger Loops are worthless gimmicks. That may be reason very few systems have them.
 

Last edited by doughess; 03-16-20 at 07:38 PM.
  #54  
Old 03-16-20, 07:47 PM
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roughneck77 use chart in Grady's link:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/b...5%20for%20coal

The Beckett Manual has similar charts.
 
  #55  
Old 03-17-20, 08:39 AM
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Figured I would report back. With some great assistance I replaced my transformer, and my pump filter (which was absolutely disgusting) and then couldn't get it to fire at all after that. I tried troubleshoot with the little knowledge I've obtained from here and other various sites/videos, but to no avail. I didn't want to continue hitting the reset button, as I've read enough to know it's not advisable, and finally gave up. I bundled my 2 year old in with me to bed last night (while she flailed and pummeled me all throughout the night), and when I got up, I was still maintaining some heat, but it was a chili 54 when I left for work at 5am. So without feeling I had much option to make sure my little one and wife had a warm house to wake up to, called the heating company who came out and replaced the nozzle, and cleaned the system again (and then billed me substantially). All seems to be well now, but time will tell.

My theory is this, when the repair person came in January, the never changed my pump filter, and I was low on fuel, so it was pumping sludge in, the sludge got to the nozzle, and plugged the nozzle that had been installed in January. I'm very grateful to have heat again today, but feel so incredibly low about this whole ordeal, and the amount of money I had to sink into it on account of the heating company (I understand they have to make their money, but it still doesn't make it much easier to swallow).

I want to thank everyone here that's helped me. Spott/Grady I wouldn't have the confidence or know how, and regardless of how this all ended up, I will forever be indebted to the 2 of you, for your vast knowledge and willingness to take time out of your lives to help a complete stranger! I truly am stunned by how willing you both were to help in anyway possible! TheMadNucleus, I thank you for coming in, and having a fellow DIYer to bounce ideas off, and work together with me to see what my likely options/culprits were.

I'll post back if anything changes, and will probably keep a close eye on this forum, just to share any experiences I can with others.
 
  #56  
Old 03-17-20, 12:58 PM
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KB,
Sorry you had to pay the service company again but the family is worth every penny. Just for future use, I suggest you get &i keep on hand, a spare nozzle, fuel filter cartridge, & pump screen. You know enough now you should be able to handle that in an emergency.
 
  #57  
Old 03-17-20, 04:13 PM
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Hi Karlsbird - Grady's advice just posted, is good advice IMHO. Also - I'm so glad you got it running again but sorry you had to take trip down a highway sometimes called robbery.

Funny thing - I suspected the nozzle, if you recall my earlier post from a few days ago:

"I have a few other suggestions on what to check - for example - Nozzles are easy to replace, cheap and can be blocked so that no oil flows."

In the end, however, you know your heating system now, better then you ever did before. Sometimes such an education costs some dollars. So in my view, the whole experience was a win anyway.

You are more then welcome for the few cents I added and appreciate you recognizing me in your post.

All the best.

Tom
 
  #58  
Old 03-17-20, 06:08 PM
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K,
Thanks for the update. I can only echo Grady's sentiment and advice and MN sharing his insights from what he has learned through his experiences. For about 15.00 and the knowledge you have now it can save you hundreds and have the satisfction of knowing it's done right.
 
  #59  
Old 03-20-20, 07:16 PM
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A basic problem in this thread was fuel. DIY threads tend to focus on problems and solutions rather than prevention. Preventive maintenance is widely practiced in the industrial world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainte...tenanceRegular,

Routine fuel oil sludge treatments are both a solution and prevention. While some sludge comes in oil deliveries it also develops in residential tanks.

Water is basis for sludge growth. To avoid future issues, first use small hand pump with line going to bottom of tank, remove any water, usually a small quantity at bottom of tank.

For initial sludge treatment, use 1 quart per 1,000 gallons. Then before each fill add 3.2 ounces treatment per 100 gallons. With good filters, clean fuel will provide more reliable service.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hercules...hoCgWUQAvD_BwE

There are many articles on fuel oil sludge, here is one:

Quality of FUEL OIL

doughess post #38 covered ways to deal more effectively with oil burner system issues. The summer is good time to prepare for next winter. In old age, on cold winter nights I want reliable heat, not DIY challenges
 
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