I've scoured the internet trying to resolve this issue that popped up a couple months ago. So I ran low on fuel and have to get someone out to my house, who cleaned everything, and replaced the nozzle and filter. I had fuel delivered the following day, but ever since then my reset button will trip randomly, usually in the middle of the night. It at first was once a week or so, now it's been every day for the last 5 days. It fires up immediately upon hitting the reset button. The "furnace" itself is an Olsen. It's a Beckett motor (not sure the model), and the primary control unit is a Honeywell R8184 N 1009. I am not opposed to having the repair guy come back and take a look, but as I'm sure you all know it's not cheap, so I'm trying to find out what kind of repair I'm likely getting myself into. I've learned that there is a VERY wide array of issues causing it to trip, and I've seen posts where people have near identical issues to what I'm experiencing, but I'm assuming once they get it figured out they disappear, so I can't find anything definitive as to what the likely causes are.

Any help is appreciated more than you folks know! I just want to get a good night sleep again, instead of waking all not long worried that it's going to go out and won't restart.

 

K,
Unless the tech didn't set the burner up right when he cleaned it from your description you may be looking at your ignition transformer. When it starts to fail or gets weak it may cause a delay to ignite your electrodes to allow the burner to light.

When you reset it do you get a little puff of smoke which is caused from unburned oil. If your boiler doesn't lite within a certain time on a call for heat the safety shuts it down. It is usually either from oil or ignition problems.

If you could post pics if possible it would be helpful to see what you have. Below is a sight with an exqmple of what could be your problem.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-51771U-Electronic-Oil-Igniter-for-A-AF-AFG

 

Spott,

Here are the pictures I nabbed. I can get others if needed, but my phone wasn't cooperating with me for some reason, so it took some time to get them to my computer.

The first several times I would restart it there would be little puffs of smoke, but there hasn't been any the last several times, but I've also been very adamant to keep a close on eye on it, so it likely hasn't been "running" with no heat for as long as it did the initial handful of times when I'd see the smoke. Not sure if that makes a difference or not, but I'm trying to give as much detail as possible.

Thank you much for you reply!

 

How was the fuel line bled, and for how long, when you got an oil delivery?

 

When the guy stopped by my house to look at it I was at work. My wife called me telling me the heat wasn't working, so I came home, and couldn't get it to light when hitting reset. Once that didn't work, I had to go back to work, but after I called a repair company. The guy came out, advised I get fuel in ASAP (which I did the following day as scheduled). I was low, but probably at like 1/8 of a tank so didn't think it was that imperative, something I've since learned is more vital than I thought. So what the tech did, I'm not totally sure, I only chatted with him briefly when I paid the bill, and all I got was it was dirty, so he cleaned some things up, replaced a potentially clogged nozzle, replaced a filter, and that I shouldn't let it run low like that. We bought this house last year, so I guess we're learning on the fly.

 

There are almost countless causes for intermittent ignition failure. Since you recently had someone there who changed the filter, let's start with the fuel system.:
You will need a 3/8" wrench, a container in which to catch oil (at least a pint), and a hose about 1/4" I.D. a couple of feet long.
Attach the hose to the bleeder port (looks like a brake bleeder or grease fitting) on the fuel pump.
Put the other end in the container.
Use the wrench to open the bleeder 1/4-1/2 turn.
Start the burner.
When you get a steady stream of oil with no bubbles, close the bleeder.
If air in the fuel is the issue, the burner should fire.

 

I will try this on my lunch break in a few hours and hope for the best. If there is air in the lines, will it be obvious? Or will it be very subtle to the point that I would likely not notice?

 

You will notice. You want a good full flow of oil. NO bubbles.

 

Oh my gosh - I have the same exact issue - am very curious of the outcome here. I thought it might be air in my line so I also bled the system - got a solid stream of oil. closed it up and it fired up immediately. A day went by and poof, another lockout. I bought and installed a tiger loop - no change - same exact issue. Starts perfectly all other times - immediate and powerful flame and runs until proper shut down, except for the once or twice daily lockouts. ARGH

BTW - I don't mean to hijack this thread so feel free to proceed with Karlbird and I will watch closely

 

k,
It's good to check the oil but once it's bled and runs through at least a cycle without problems unless you have loose fittings in the oil line somewhere to break the vacuum I doubt that is your problem. The puffs of smoke is suggesting to me that you have a delayed ignition and the smoke puff is telling me that the oil is being delivered before the spark is ignited. My guess is at times it's being delayed so long that the primary control times out and shuts it down on safety.

Why I wanted to see your burner is to see what you had for a transformer to verify what I suspected. You have an older style that used to get progressively weaker before it died causing nusiance shutdowns. The newer electronic oil ignitors as they are now called, but serve the same purpose, usually just die instead of putting you through this torture. I did post a sight in a previous post but I will post it again if interested.

Without being there it is hard to tell for sure but as I said unless the tech didn't do his job I would be looking at this component.

There is a way to test the transformer if you are a little handy. Your particular one is 10,000 V, although very little amperage, if touched it won't kill you but it will give you a wake up call and a good lesson for next time. The new electronic ones are 20,000 V.

You are looking at the 1st or 2nd one for Beckett.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/contr...c+oil+ignitors

 

So I tried to bleed it out while on lunch, and will wait and see if that helped, but it seemed like a good stream right out of the gate, so I'm guessing that wasn't the issue.

TheMadNucleus, not a problem, all I ask is if you resolve it, keep me posted, and I'll do the same. I've read tons of people with the same or similar issues online, and it seems they disappear (I'd assume once they resolve their problem).

 

Spott,

You must've replied while I was typing my last one. I've seen plenty of videos on how to test the transformer, and while it seems straightforward, all the warnings of the wonderful feelings a shock would give me have me very apprehensive. Also when I just started it at home on my lunch break, there was certainly a puff of smoke. I'm not sure if I sure risk trying to replace the transformer myself, or see if I can have that company back out to replace it. Just not sure what a professional replacement like that would cost, and if I'd be able to squeeze it into my budger.

 

K,
To test is not difficult since you know what you are looking at. With the power off to the boiler lift up the transformer. There is no danger with the power off.

The next thing is to get a fairly long screwdriver and make sure you touch nothing but the insulated handle. It doesn't have to be rubber. Any good hanlde with no metal will do. Now turn on the power to the boiler and see if you get a good arch between the 2 terminals. It should be a good 3/4" or more. If it is smaller or very weak it's time to replace.

On another note to mention with your particular transformer even if you get a good spark at the time they were prone to internal shorts that you could never find except by the way they acted.

To change one is not very difficult. If you decide to do it we can help you through it. Your 2 wires are connected under your primary control. You remove the old ones and replace with the new. There is no difference what wire goes ro what so you cannot mix the wires up as long as you put them to where the old ones were.

Hope this helps a little.

 

I'll consider it for sure. How much would it cost to have a professional replace it do you think? Judging by the videos I've watched the replacement looks fairly straight forward, and the part seems fairly inexpensive. I'm just always nervous when dealing unknowns like power and fuel with little ones in the house.

Your help has been very much appreciated up to this point, and I'll certainly keep you posted throughout this process whatever route I go.

 

Hi Karlbird and Spott,

I've ordered the Trasformer - Arriving tomorrow and I will replace that evening - I will keep you posted. But after dealing with this torture (As Spott so eloquently coined the phrase here), I began suspecting the transformer. BTW - I have the exact same set up as Karlbird - 25 year old xformer.

Spott - really appreciate all your posts and advise on this - really excellent. I started to suspect the xformer after installing the tiger loop wherein you can see the oil being supplied to the burner right before entry to the pump. My missing link was whether those old winding/magnetic coil xformers would go wonky over time or just be a work/no work kind of device - you cleared that up - so I'm a bit more confident this is the issue.

Karlbird - thanks for your clear explanations and persistence and understanding that I jumped in here.

TMN

 

With a good full flow of oil & the nozzle being recently changed, I agree with spott in that the ignition transformer is the likely culprit.

 

I'm planning on ordering a transformer this evening as well, and wish the best for both of us. I'm going to post back whenever I get the thing and get it installed, which will likely be after you.

Grady and spott have been exceptionally helpful to this point, and both of your expertise is much appreciated.

 

Karlbird: Here's the ignitor you need:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-...r-for-A-AF-AFG

You will need to cut off the connectors on the wire ends & strip off 1/2-3/4" of insulation to connect to your primary control. Super easy. No more than 5-10 minutes even if you've never done one.

 

Didn't pull the trigger quick enough yesterday to get it ordered and in before Monday, which is fine. I'll be on vacation on Wednesday and have to have someone stop by to make sure all is still working on Thursday or Friday. With it being an intermittent issue currently and popping up anywhere from once or twice a day to once a week, I feel best having someone check it for me whilst I'm away. I look forward to the task of installing this.

 

Well - last night, when I got back from work, the burner was locked out. Reset it and it would not reset. Primed it and it reset. I was really confused now. None the less, I went to home depot and picked up the new electronic voltage booster ("transformer") and just on whim, based on the oil feed issue I sensed, I picked up a new Suntec A2VA-7116 pump as well. Got home and installed the new transformer. Unit fired up ran its cycle, shut down properly and then would not restart. So I bit the bullet and pulled the Suntec pump and replaced it with the new one from home depot. Unit fired up - ran many new cycles and as of this morning - things look good.

I don't think my issue (although same symptoms) is the same as Karlbird's - but I wanted to post the results here anyway to keep everyone in the loop. Seems the oil pump, when going bad is notorious for intermittent operation with increasing rates of failure.

One thing I noticed when I replaced it - the Suntec 7116 has a straight plain shaft and requires a drive "bushing" - I had to use the one from the old pump. It was green and looked a bit like a toy gear. I'd like to replace that thing - does anyone know what it is called and where I can get one?

TMN

 

TMN,

You seem much handier and confident in your abilities than I. That's awesome that you were able to get your issue figured out. I sure hope my issue isn't the same as yours, because I doubt I'd be able to change that pump on my own, although I do have a brother and some buddies who are much better than I at wrenching on things.

Hopefully someone here can help you with your question though, as this is way beyond the little knowledge I have with this. At any rate, I'm glad you got your issue figured out swiftly.

A couple questions for you. How long has this issue been going on for you? How often have you had to reset? I ask because this has been occurring since January 20th for me, and is usually once a week, but more often when it seems to be warm out, but it hasn't been more than once a day. If you experienced the same issues and frequencies as I, that could mean I need a pump too, but the transformer will be here Monday so I should hopefully know soon after that.

 

TMN,
The part you describe is called a burner coupling. They usually come blister packed with 3 ends (Grey, orange, & green) to fit various shaft sizes. The coupling body will have to be cut to length if you choose to replace it.
This one is probably pre cut to the correct length. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-...AFG-NX-Burners

Just out of curiosity, did you remove the cover on the pump & look at the screen?

 

Hi Karlsbird,

I actually have very little experience with this stuff but a solid background in lots of disciplines (which helps). The pump is really child's play - sounds much more daunting then it really is. Of Course takes a bit of guts, cuz even when I was pulling it out I was not sure what I would find but in the end not much more complex then Bike parts when it comes to merely replacing the pump. Basically, Close the Oil Feed. Disconnect the line(s) into the pump, take 2 bolts off that attach the pump to the burner and the old pump just comes right out with a few wiggles. Setting up the new pump: remove the inlet stopper bolt (and the return stopper bolt if your feed is a two line system), insert the return set screw, if your system is a two line system (skip if you only have one oil feed line) and then install the new pump with two bolts, attach the Oil Line(s). Bleed the system and power it up.

Anyway - to answer your questions: The issue started back in Nov and then did not happen for several of the cold months. Then about 2 weeks ago when weather got warmer it locked out again, then ran for a few days then locked out and did so with increasing frequency until last night it would lockout after every run. My situation was exactly the same as your - seemed to happen more often when it got warmer (I'm in NY). The symptoms for our situations are very similar.

Transformer took me about 10 minutes - truly and easy swap. Recall that you will need to take the CAD (photo cell) out of the old transformer and put it into the new one. So there are 4 wires you will need to disconnect - 2 for the transformer and 2 for the CAD (Yellow). The CAD just slips out of the bracket but you may need to encourage it with a screw driver - just a little bit of force. There is a Foam collar and the bracket in the new transformer was a little different so I had to trim a little foam form the sides to get it to fit - you'll see - not a big deal though.

Tom (TMN)

 

I just watched a couple videos on that pump replacement and you are correct it doesn't look to insanely difficult. Still unsure if it's a task I would want to undertake on my own given my little mechanical knowledge. I sure hope this transformer does the trick. I've been a nervous wreck since this issue popped up, and scoured the internet trying to find a solution. I will (one way or another) keep troubleshooting and reporting to the bitter end, which will hopefully be sooner than later. At least I know that if this transformer doesn't do the trick, the pump will likely be my next task. I'm cautiously optimistic this transformer will do the trick, but won't know until I get that bad boy in and let it run for several days without issue.

I'm thankful you've been reporting your issues back as well, as in all my research it seemed people would post an issue, then just drop off the face of the earth. So hopefully both our experiences can help someone down the line facing similar issues.

 

One caution when replacing a fuel pump;

Suntec pumps come preset for 100# pump discharge pressure. If your appliance uses other than 100#, the pump will have to be adjusted for the higher pressure. Most oil burners today no longer use 100# pump pressure.

 

I won't be touching that pump until after that transformer is on and if the issue persists, and even then, I will consult with some of you wiser than I folks on here before I consider going that route. I feel very confident based on Grady and spott's input that the transformer will resolve my issue. If not, I'll cross that bridge next week, and go from there. I kind of enjoyed pulling of my transformer and primary control and getting a feel for how it'll all go back together, so with some assistance from here and probably my more mechanically inclined brother, I'd be ok giving that pump a shot. Hoping I won't have to, but will certainly give it a go if it needs to be done.

 

Hi Karlsbad,

I know - these lockouts are fodder for psychological neurosis - it's as if the machine is toying with your sanity. Any intermittent issue is challenging but when its your heating system … ARGH

There's a few simple things that can be checked as well (I've sadly gone through most of them). But on the pump - this is how I sort of got a hint at it being the pump. If you can catch it when it locks out (you can try this even on a restart), disconnect the feed from the pump to the nozzle assembly of the furnace. When disconnected, point the thin copper tube into a pan or a bucket (something to catch oil) and then press the reset button - once you see fuel or don't see fuel after about 10 seconds or so - just turn off the burner (test complete). When I did this - on occasion no oil would be flowing out of that tube - that means the burner was not getting fuel. The way the pump failed is interesting - once it starts pumping, it's fine - but when the controller calls for heat, the pump, on occasion, would simply not start pumping. I only caught this a few times but soon figured that it might be happening on each call for heat that resulted in a lock out. This was just a theory but prompted me to pick up a pump at home depot (90 bucks - 20 cheaper if you get it online) last night while I was getting the transformer. There is also a strainer in the pump which is like a last minute oil filter - very simple to replace and could also block oil to the nozzle (tons of videos on that as well).

I have a few other suggestions on what to check - for example - Nozzles are easy to replace, cheap and can be blocked so that no oil flows. The ignition electrodes may need adjusting - not likely though if the burner flames up quickly after it starts. There are lots of you tube videos on how to change that stuff - all pretty straight forward. Some people have issues with air getting into the oil supply line and at one point I figured that was a likely culprit for me so I bought a TigerLoop and installed it (90 bucks on-line) - good to have anyway - but this was not the issue.

Anyway - happy to help, if I can. And yes - I know about dropped threads - almost as frustrating as intermittent lockouts.

@Grady - thanks for the info on default pressure and adjusted pressure - after checking for my Model I found it uses the default 100psi - in fact Beckett says all of their older Burners are at 100 PSI.

TMN

 

That makes a lot of sense and I fear that sounds precisely like what would be my issue. The higher I have the heat (meaning the more frequent it runs), the longer it runs without issue. At least that's how it seems. I'm glad I found this forum, and people that are willing to help. I've been a constant ball of nerves the last couple months and was literally just about to give up, as I felt there wasn't much for options.

As for the nozzle, that should be good, as it was replaced shortly before the issues started. I fear that when the tech changed it and "cleaned" things, he might not have set the electrodes up correctly, or some other issue. Not that they'd admit it or remedy it without another hefty bill. I'm hoping that's not the case, but if it is, I'll deal with it without that company if and/when I get to that point.

 

K,
This is the pump screen and coupling set that Grady mentioned that should be checked and changed if needed during your annual tuneup but is not always done. Before rushing out and buying a pump it would be worth the time to take the cover off the pump and check your screen, especially if you ran out or run your oil low where you can pick up the sledge from the tank.

This is just for info for the future to show what they look like. I have added in one more page just in case anyone is looking for something but not sure what it is. Westwood makes a wide range of products for burners that people aren't aware of, even just for info.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Westwood-Products

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-SP150281U-CleanCut-Pump-Strainer-Kit

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Westwood-Products-S85-510-Nylo-Flex-Coupling-Kit-Two-1-2-Two-7-16-One-5-16-End-Pieces-6-Nyloshaft

 

I ran it low, and have been having issues ever since, so that could likely be the culprit. I might have to consider trying to tackle taking that pump off tonight and see if that screen isn't the issue.

 

Don't take the pump cover off unless you have a replacement gasket. The gaskets will often tear when you take the cover off.

 

Thanks for that bit of feedback. I'll order up one of them screen/gasket kits now. Says it'll be here by Monday, and I'll see if I can get my brother or someone over to help try to help me get that done. Otherwise I'll wait until the following vacation when I return if the transformer doesn't do the trick.

 

K,
You initially mentioned that when they came thay changed the nozzle and filter so I presumed they checked the pump screen also so I didn't mention it but you can always give them a call to see if they did. I doubt that in your case that is your problem because of the puffback but it might save you from pulling it apart for nothing. Either way it's good to keep on hand for cheap money.

 

karlbird,
Depending on the age of the pump, you will need either a 5/16" wrench (or socket) or a 5/32" Allen wrench to remove the pump cover. You may have to loosen or remove the fuel inlet line to remoce the pump cover. If you do, please don't use pliers of any sort on the brass nut.

 

Hi Karlburd and Spott,

Oops forgot to mention the pump screen - I changed that as well prior to replacing the pump. Actually, at first I thought that was definitely the issue as it was really dirty and clogged, but alas that was not it. The pump was actually failing. just my 2 cents, but I had the same thought as Spott on the Puff's - i.e., it seems that at least some fuel is present, but it also indicates there is likely a spark as well. But my experience in this mess... those Suntec pumps fail in wonky ways, so a pump that is failing may provide some fuel for moment or two but then fail.

Intermittent issues - ARGH. and yes Karlsbird - our burner issues seem to have almost the exact same symptoms.

My system is easily 30 years old - looks like Karlsbird's is likely a similar age. The new Suntec pump does have Allen screws for the Pump Screen Cover, but my original Suntec had Hex Head screws. If you have any questions on my experience, please feel free to ask.

TMN

 

I'll be replacing the transformer, the screen, and the filter on Monday, and am very hopeful that fixes the issue. I suppose if not the pump will be the next thing to replace. And I'll likely add a safety valve and replace the nozzle at the same time. I'm hoping it doesn't come to replacing the pump, mostly due to the added cost, but you can't put a price on being able to sleep easy without worrying about this any longer.

I'll report back Monday evening and let anyone who reads this know how it went.

Assuming all is well now with your furnace Mad Nucleus? I sure hope so, and look forward to both of us having warm homes with no issues

 

HI Karlsbird,

Well - with intermittent issues I never like to say resolved until many days pass by - but so far things look very good.

Thanks for the wishes - wish you the same. Some great advice on here from Grady and Spott. The Gasket info is Spot on :-) BTW I bought my Pump Screen and Gasket set from Home Depot for 2 dollars and change - if there is one near by - you could get a jump on that fix straight away.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Suntec-O...5732/202274777

I'm assuming you have a Suntec Pump A2VA-7116 - from the looks of your burner photos - that's a good guess on my part but you can look at the face plate of the pump and the model number would be there in bold letter (That model is like the ubiquitous residential Beckett Burner Pump). The strainer kit I posted is for that model and comes with a Gasket.

I'm interested in how it turns out - so I'll be checking in periodically.

TMN

 

The issues raised by thread starter TheMadNucleus and in many other DIY threads might have been avoided or solved more easterly with simple additions. Here are some things over the years I added to facilitate oil burner maintenance and diagnostics.

Fuel oil containment is on going problem. Before oil fills check for water at bottom of tank.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-...4aAvRgEALw_wcB

Then add sludge treatment (3.3 ounces per 100 gallons of fill)
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hercules...hoCgWUQAvD_BwE

Install 2 fuel filters in series with coarse and fine replaceable elements.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/General-...lter-9860000-p

https://www.supplyhouse.com/General-...idge-9864000-p

https://www.supplyhouse.com/General-...idge-9868000-p

Install ball type shut off valve in fuel line to filter to avoid mess when changing elements.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-...alve-Lead-Free

With good in-line filters it is not necessary to change fuel pump coarse wire filter. I never do.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sunt...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Install gauge on fuel line between filter and pump to show status.

Monitor gauge periodically and when it reaches 12” change coarse filter. Run burner and if gauge is above 5”, also replace fine filter. I change filters when gauge shows need, not annually.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Gar-Ber-...oduct-overview

Install fuel hoses between filter gauge and pump to ease remove of burner for service.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/contr...xible+Oil+Line

Install liquid pressure gauge on burner pump nozzle port to see status, problems and adjust pressure.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-...nals-0-160-PSI

Install modern primary burner control with digital LCD display to show status, history, lockout status with alarm contacts. Use battery powered alarm to immediately alert occupants to control lockout.

Honeywell 7248U and Carlin 70200 primary controls sell for less than $70.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywel...ic-Oil-Primary

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Carlin-C...ontrol-120-VAC

Beckett Genisys 7505 primary $68 control lacks LCD display and requires different models based on period settings. Beckett costs $170 total with attachments to get same features as Honeywell and Carlin controllers.

Finally, with those additions problems will still occur, but are quickly identified and remedied.
On a cold winter nights they can pay off warmly for the DIYer.

 

For a change I actually agree with all that Doug has written in this last post.

 

I ALWAYS at least check the pump screen. If there's anything on it, it gets changed. For a couple of bucks, I'm going to tank a chance on fouling a nozzle? No way, no how. Yes, I have dual filters, vac gauge, & Tigerloop. Two pipe fuel systems are propably the worst thing you can have to keep a burner's fuel system clean.