Inducer fan kept breaking.


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Old 03-09-23, 06:43 AM
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Inducer fan kept breaking.

Hello,
I have a Carrier 58MVC and the inducer fan broke off completely from its center mount. I replaced it last month and yesterday it broke again. This (horizontal) system had been working flawlessly since 2009. When I removed the housing, there was some water still in there. No clogs found from the drain hole or the connector hose.

what could cause the fan to keep breaking like this? Clogged exhaust that created back pressure to the fan?

thx
 

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03-15-23, 06:16 PM
roughneck77
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No, itís not a sudden stop. It slowly gets worse with time.
Some early symptoms are elevated burner box temperature, elevated flue temperature causing parts to overheat, and drain clogging from the heat exchanger coating burning off.
Some will start randomly tripping the rollout.
Youíll also see red flags with a combustion test. Like high CO, CO2 and low oxygen.
Far into the failure these will put out thousands of PPM of CO. And put a stink out the exhaust that will irritate the eyes and throat. It can cause CO poisoning.
YEARLY checkups are MANDATORY with these models. Itís not an option. It will fail, they all will, itís just a matter of when.
Very important to catch it as early as possible.
 

Last edited by roughneck77; 03-15-23 at 06:43 PM.
  #2  
Old 03-09-23, 09:08 AM
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That unit is part of a class action lawsuit for faulty secondary heat exchangers.

http://hipspro.com/pubs/Furnace-clas...led_notice.pdf
 
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Old 03-09-23, 01:13 PM
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That's a condensing furnace. The fan should not be running in excessive heat. There should be no reason for the premature wearing of inducer fan blades. I've seen issues with heat exchanger issues but non in regards to the blades breaking.
 
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Old 03-09-23, 02:36 PM
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Wow! I thought it was just me. The blades are huge putting lot of counter torque at the mount. Now that I think of it, there are signs of melting near center. Strangely, it worked flawlessly for 13 yrs.

the dead line to submit a claim was 2008. I never received anything.

aslo, what is second heat exchange? Inducer housing?

thank you
 
  #5  
Old 03-09-23, 03:07 PM
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The secondary is the last part of the heat exchanger the flue gasses pass through on the way to the collector box and then inducer.
Sometimes you can pull the blower and look up through the unit and see damage to the secondary.
A combustion analyzer is usually used to check the health of the furnace.
Replacing is it major surgery.
When they fail completely they emit a lot of carbon monoxide.
 
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Old 03-09-23, 08:18 PM
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Need someone out there to confirm the furnace is safe first. If the secondary has failed then I think you are still eligible for some type of credit towards a new furnace from Carrier. Would need to have an authorized dealer to handle all that for you though I think.
 
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Old 03-09-23, 08:23 PM
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Usually when they fail bad there will be a horrible noxious smell from the vent piping termination, and 2000-3000 ppm of carbon monoxide, very dangerous. A combustion analyzer (as was already recommended) will be able to catch the failure even before it becomes that unsafe.
 
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Old 03-09-23, 08:59 PM
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Thx for the info.so far there was nothing unusual when it was working, may be because it’s in the attic and don’t smell anything.

I found the installation and will read it soon but in the meanwhile I have some questions and i would really appreciate if you can explain to me so it’ll be easier to understand when I read the manual, or maybe I won’t have to 😀.


The flaw of this machine is it’s running too hot as mentioned above. May be I had no problem in the past 13 yrs because it was never such a long and cold winter until now. Is there some adjustments i can do to reduce the heat output. Hopefully the swithches in the pic below will let me.

And also in the pic below on the joint connector of the exhaust pipe and the input pipe. is it just a simple joint or there are valves or some diverters in there?

lastly, my exhaust exit from the roof in the pic, is it normal or the cap is missing? seems to exposed to rain and it's been rainning a lot lately.

Thank You















Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
 
  #9  
Old 03-10-23, 03:25 AM
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Elevated exhaust and burner box temperatures are a symptom of a failing secondary.
The odor that was mentioned will be discharged out the exhaust.
I would find someone to do a combustion analysis on this unit immediately, before putting it back in service.
Doesnít look like your duct system is very good either with that flex just laying there like that.
 
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Old 03-10-23, 11:23 AM
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I am pretty sure you are correct. Beside the fan blades issue, I also heard loud horn like sound from the exhaust pipe on the roof, and sometimes with white smoke. I’ve never heard or seen that before.

question, even if I get the secondary heat exchanger replaced and if it was a flawed design wouldn’t it happen again in near future? Did Carrier change anything?

i’m contacting the original dealer that installed the system.

thx
 
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Old 03-10-23, 12:22 PM
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The heat exchanger is of a different design now. Most folks end up replacing the furnace rather than pay for the labor to replace the heat exchanger.
Be careful whom you call. Youíll want someone who can do a combustion analysis and can interpret the readings to the health of the furnace.
 
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Old 03-11-23, 04:08 PM
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When said replace the furnace, does it mean replace the whole inside unit or just the heating components, not including the blower and what not?

I remember this whole system cost nearly $10k before rebates.

Our other system is Amana which might be the original one came with the house in 1882 is still working flawlessly. It just cost a lot to run.

edit: also, I am just preparing for different scenarios: our current system 95% efficient. Now I realize I don’t need that kind of efficiency for California winters and the recommended Carrier furnace for our zone is Performance 80. I also try to avoid high maintenant cost of an advance system. But I do enjoy power saving of the AC in the summer . Can they mix the the 2 together or I have to change the AC to a lower model, too?

I will ask the technician on Monday but I just want to prepare.

thx
 

Last edited by amati5; 03-11-23 at 04:59 PM.
  #13  
Old 03-11-23, 04:51 PM
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Replacing the furnace would mean the whole unit.
Replacing the heat exchanger, if necessary, could be an option. It is major surgery to do so.
 
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Old 03-11-23, 05:08 PM
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I added this question just before your reply

edit: also, I am just preparing for different scenarios: our current system 95% efficient. Now I realize I don’t need that kind of efficiency for California winters and the recommended Carrier furnace for our zone is Performance 80. I also try to avoid high maintenant cost of an advance system. But I do enjoy power saving of the AC in the summer . Can they mix the the 2 together or I have to change the AC to a lower model, too?”

thx
 
  #15  
Old 03-11-23, 06:37 PM
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You will likely be able to keep the air conditioner, itís best being an AHRI matched system.
Is that a 2 stage unit?
Id keep a 90+ system. No need to go back in technology. Condensing furnaces are far from new or high tech.
You donít even know if your heat exchanger has failed yet.
 
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Old 03-12-23, 09:58 AM
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It’s Infinity multi stage, most efficient at the time in 2009 and manufactured in 2009 too. Apparently it didn’t come with the newer secondary heatxchanger because it does have the 20 yrs plus labor warranty (checked my serial number with Carrier).
 
  #17  
Old 03-12-23, 12:20 PM
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If itís under warranty-and the heat exchanger is faulty-get it fixed and return it to service.
 
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Old 03-14-23, 11:03 PM
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I think I figured out why the blades broke. Those rubber mounts got old and saggy shifting the blades out of alignment. That whole inducer motor weighs like 7-8 lbs and using the rubber mounts wasn’t a good idea. No wonder they discontinued the whole assembly.
 
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Old 03-15-23, 03:08 AM
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So whatís your plan for the furnace then?
 
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Old 03-15-23, 10:12 AM
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I did some modifications to add support to the motor. When install the new blades, it was faced down on my table and everything looked perfect. After installation the assembly, I had to wait 24 hrs for the sealant to cure. When I was about to turn it on, I manually turned the motor and I heard some light squeal. I looked at the rubber mounts and the center bores are no longer in the center, then I realized once the assembly is installed (vertically) , gravity start pulling down on the old soft rubbers and the blades wheel was no longer in the center of the housing, rubbing against it. I removed the mounts, turned then 180 degree, added orings to the gaps, and added some extra support and it turns ok for now.

oh, and I found this port (not the hose) of the trap was clogged. Wonder if it contributed to the blades wheel problem. The port is for the hose from the box behind the inducer assembly.


 

Last edited by amati5; 03-15-23 at 11:15 AM.
  #21  
Old 03-15-23, 11:17 AM
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What about checking the heat exchanger? Thatís a necessity.
 
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Old 03-15-23, 04:12 PM
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What’s wrong with the web site. I keep getting some type of error when trying to post. I have to type in just one word, then edit and save.

Anyway, Right now I just want to get the heater going. If it fails again i’ll call a pro. He did come but I didn’t have the new fan blades installed yet so he couldn’t do much.

wouldn’t the system shut off with error code if the heat exchanger go bad?

 
  #23  
Old 03-15-23, 06:16 PM
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No, itís not a sudden stop. It slowly gets worse with time.
Some early symptoms are elevated burner box temperature, elevated flue temperature causing parts to overheat, and drain clogging from the heat exchanger coating burning off.
Some will start randomly tripping the rollout.
Youíll also see red flags with a combustion test. Like high CO, CO2 and low oxygen.
Far into the failure these will put out thousands of PPM of CO. And put a stink out the exhaust that will irritate the eyes and throat. It can cause CO poisoning.
YEARLY checkups are MANDATORY with these models. Itís not an option. It will fail, they all will, itís just a matter of when.
Very important to catch it as early as possible.
 

Last edited by roughneck77; 03-15-23 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 03-15-23, 06:48 PM
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Yup, will call him back to check.
 
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Old 03-15-23, 07:04 PM
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Make sure a combustion analysis is done. Post the results here. He should have a way of printing the results.
 
 

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