"connected" "smart" thermostats for new furnaces

Looking for a way to bring in a new furnace without the $1,000+ thermostat they want to sell with it.

Will these units not run with just a simple Honeywell RTH6580WF1001W for example?

The literature for the Bryant I am looking at goes on and on about features I don't care about and complications I don't want to deal with, not to mention that in numerous places it states you have to basically create an account, contact service about this and that, and pay, just so the furnace will operate. Some online comments talk about the thermostats interfering with their existing router and app choices, and setting the equipment to operate based on faulty weather predictions! Also dependent upon the company's server being in operation and someone being available and able to understand the codes, your home wi-fi being turned on all the time and functioning. One comment said he was told to buy a different router that the equipment works with better. No thanks!! This is a rabbit hole that does not interest me in the slightest.

The salesperson for Bryant will just not address my concerns. Is that because they just want the extra money or are these things just unable to function without all the complicated features?

Does anyone know of a manufacturer that offers a simpler thermostat option for their units?

 

An Ecobee thermostat should work fine.

Ask the furnace installer about a thermostat that may suit you better

 

Any system will run on almost any thermostat but when you are paying considerably more for high efficiency then you need a thermostat that can access all the functions. If not... you will not get the high efficiency you are paying for.

Newer.... high efficiency systems use multi stage furnaces with a variable speed blower and multi speed A/C compressors. Only a communicating thermostat can control all of that to extract maximum efficiency.

 

Yes. I understand there would be a trade-off. But, honestly these are not my thing, and I would hazard a guess that most people don't want all this complication, particularly since it does not really deliver the most important thing: a reliable furnace.

The comments paint a picture of complicated systems that can work, and people who enjoy cluttering their lives with smart phone activities and apps gravitate toward these and to a point are OK with the glitches and expense. But many people say they only bought the top end thermostats because they thought they had no choice. And many recount frustration and expense that outweighs purported advances.

Anyway, back to my questions: are there fundamentally high quality systems out there sold without pushing the rest of this? Bryant and Carrier both just quoted a high end thermostat to enable all of the functions. My last house had a high efficiency furnace that did not require any of this wi-fi connectivity and maintaining an account with the furnace dealer for service, software revisions, etc. etc..

Would the Honeywell RTH6580WF1001W work with the Bryant Evolution, Preferred or Legacy? Are these the same basic system?

This kind of reminds me of stereo gear. You can get really good quality in the $x range, but those who want to get that little bit more enter another world of airbearings, etc. and quadruple their cost.

 

I am just an informed homeowner and a weekend-DIYer. It may help to go beyond the glossy brochures and take a look at the furnace manufacturer's product literature available online. These documents are typically not available on the manufacturer's own site, In your example, here are some examples of what's available. These are just the first things on the search results and I don't have any vested interest in the companies providing these documents:

- Bryant model compare: https://www.shareddocs.com/hvac/docs...10-1568-25.pdf
- Bryant installation instructions: https://www.questargas.com/ForEmploy...ant_355AAV.pdf

As stated already, all furnaces have a way to support non-proprietary thermostats, like a separate terminal block on the furnace control board or the same terminal block.

My personal opinion, unless absolutely necessary, do not enable the wifi on the thermostat. you already touched on some of the issues with this.I know these are great furnace manufacturers, but I don't know how robust the cyber security is in their proprietary thermostats. Also, the benefits of using super-smart furnaces and proprietary thermostats are questionable.

 

What is the premise for not enabling Wi-Fi on a thermostat...or any other Wi-Fi supported capable device?

 

The reason is in my reply as well; it's about cyber security. I don't know if it is as robust as thermostats made by companies who specialize in hi-tech.

 

The Honeywell thermostats are fairly reliable.
I guess there are those who would try to hack them but the rewards hardly cover the work.

You can use a basic thermostat to control a high efficiency furnace.
The furnace will just run more on it's internal timers.
The Honeywell could be setup for two stage operation.

 

The only furnaces that require a super expensive communicating thermostat to get full heating function are the modulators - variable capacity.

Communicating actually refers to a digital interface between the thermostat and furnace, a normal thermostat just gives simple on/off signals.
These days, most new communicating t-stats do support wifi, but it is unnecessary to enable it.
They have this support mostly for marketing purposes because people seem to want the feature - the wifi feature adds nothing when it comes to comfort or efficiency, it is just a convenience.


If you buy a 2-stage or single stage furnace, a generic thermostat will do just fine without compromising it.

A single stage runs at 100% capacity and shuts off.
A 2-stage runs at 60 to 70% capacity on low, 100% on high - and is quieter, provides more consistent, comfortable heat.

The higher end, fancier 2-stage models do support a high end, expensive communicating thermostat but it is optional. (technically it is optional for modulating, but in that case generic really cripples the modulating function on most)
There are 2-stage furnaces that are more basic and have similar complexity and repair costs to single and don't have compatibility with communicating thermostats.

If you buy a 2-stage furnace but the thermostat is single stage - it will switch to high heat after a time delay, usually 10 minutes but it varies.
If you get a generic 2-stage t-stat and it is properly wired and configured (it takes an extra wire), it will run on low heat unless it actually detects low is not sufficient to maintain the setting or the setting is significantly above room temperature, in which case it will switch it to high. When maintaining, the best 2-stage thermostats can switch from high back down to low.
The latter is far better.

I see efficiency was brought up here.
2-stage has nothing to do with efficiency, you can get that in low efficiency 80%. It is for comfort.
You can also get a single stage furnace up to 96% efficiency rating.
Only the modulators are unavailable with a 80% efficiency rating

 

"Would the Honeywell RTH6580WF1001W work with the Bryant Evolution, Preferred or Legacy? Are these the same basic system?"

It would work with all three, but cripple the modulating furnace of the evolution series - but i don't recommend modulating anyway.

It is a basic generic wifi stat that also supports 2-stage control. (read my post above to understand this one)
I would hold on to it and get either a single or 2-stage furnace - most honeywell thermostats are quite good.

Legacy is the most basic, available in single stage only.
Preferred is the mid grade line - available in single stage and non-communicating compatible 2-stage.
Evolution is the high end stuff that supports communicating thermostats with the most expensive repairs after warranty. Available in 2-stage or modulating.

There are lots of furnaces on the market other than carrier/bryant.
What matters the most is getting the right size and overall match for the house that meets your budget - and having a contractor that will properly install, set up and tune the furnace to run properly within manufacturer's specs.
They're all fairly reliable if correctly sized, installed and set up - they vary in the thickness of metal, features, size increments and price. They vary a little in noise levels but the greatest determining factor for noise is size of air ducts vs how much air the furnace is moving, which comes down to properly matching the furnace to the house/ducts and setting it up properly.

 

The number of hackers, especially foreign bad actors, has increased dramatically over the years. It could be to train rookie hackers, to cause harm, to extort money (ransomware) etc., A quick online search on thermostat hacking will show what's happening in this area, and offer techniques to safeguard your home. There are also hacker tools that constantly look for vulnerable connections, so a human doesn't have to sit at a computer and do it manually.