A/C Kicks Out

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  #41  
Old 10-17-01, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
A little help

Hi Dan,

Follow this closely. Disconnect the 2 wires from the coil,take the incoming and outgoing wires off the timed-delay and undo BOTH wire-nuts (undo red from blue and undo red from brown).

Take the 2 red wires.Turn on home panel Breaker and set t-stat to cool - auto - 60 degrees.Place positive meter lead to one red and other lead to a KNOWN GROUND and get reading.Then do the same to the other Red.You should read 24 vac on ONE and 0 vac on the OTHER.

Take the Red wire that read 24 vac to Ground and wire-nut it to the Blue wire,connect the Blue wire to incoming Timed-Delay and Violet wire to outgoing Timed - Delay and connect other end of the Violet wire to ONE side of the coil.

Take the other Red that read 0 vac to Ground and wire-nut it to the Brown wire and connect the Brown wire to other side of coil.

Now do the above requested checks exactly as listed.

I wish I was there to show you these things,you would be amazed at how easy Electrical Troubleshooting is ONCE you know what you are supposed to read.Take Care and Best Wishes.

CoolBreeze
 
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  #42  
Old 10-17-01, 02:18 PM
dancad
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got it all

Coolbreeze

I'll check all tomorrow

tonite, the brown had the 24 vac....the blue, which became violet after the timer, reads 0 volts to ground. I checked the wire nuts and all looks ok...these i have not swapped up....i have by passed the timer.

will stay in touch
 
  #43  
Old 10-17-01, 02:39 PM
dancad
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timer

the left connection on the timer is marked "load" and has a number 1. The right side of the timer is numbered 3.

Which one does the 24VAC plug onto ?

The timer dial (This is a Totaline Timer" is set in minutes, from .03 to 10...any recommendations

Dan
 
  #44  
Old 10-17-01, 02:55 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Electrical Troubleshooting

Hi Dan,

Remove by-pass from Timed-Delay. Redo all the 24 volt wiring as listed. The 24 vac power reading HAS to come from the t-stat through the Timed- Delay.The wire coming from Timed-Delay should read 24 vac and the other going straight to coil should read 0 vac.

Please follow these instructions exactly as written and don't do anything not listed.This could go from a minor electrical problem to a totaly damaged unit with ONE wrong connection.The circuits have to be wired right and go through the proper sequences in order for unit to operate.If you do something I'm unaware of,when I receive your results,I may misinterperate what the unit is/isn't doing due to not knowing something else you have done.All units operate on same electrical principle and I know what each item should read and I can only determine if it is reading correct if you have followed the instructions given.

I'm just trying to help get your A/C running without further damage to unit or injury to you.When I post instructions, it is based on my perseption that you are following my instructions, anything outside of that will change entire readings, whether it's something not done or something done that is unknown.Once we're finished, this whole picture will be clear as glass.Now go inside and give your mother-in-law a BIG hug,LOL.

Take Care,
CoolBreeze
 
  #45  
Old 10-17-01, 03:30 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Wiring

Hi Dan,

Follow steps given to determine which Red wire is 24 vac and which is 0 vac to ground. Connect 24 vac Red wire to Blue and then connect that to #3 on Timer.Violet wire will go from #1 - LOAD side of Timer to coil (The coil is your LOAD).

The other Red - 0 vac to ground,will go to Brown and then straight to other side of coil.

I always set Timers for 7 minutes.This allows enough time for compressor to completely stop and pressures to equalize before unit can start back up.This would be same reason why you would stop your car while moving in reverse before you put it in drive and floor it.Damaged compressor = damaged transmission. Take Care,we're making progress now.Good job.

CoolBreeze
 
  #46  
Old 10-17-01, 03:49 PM
dancad
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Step One - 24 vac and timer

I followed your instructions on the 24 vac to the letter and have hooked it back up. I took the 220V readings across the leads at the disconnect, at the line side of the contactor and once again read 220V

Sorry about all of that confusion

I have read the schematic and done the following on the fan only

1). There is a yellow wire from one of the line side females at the contactor that goes to the outside motor fan. This wire I hooked up as shown on the schematic.

2). I took the next yellow wire which comes from the unit side of the contactor and hooked it back up to the "C" designation on the capacitor as shown on the schematic

These two yellow wires are on the same side of the contactor. By that i mean the both are on the left side. ne on the unit side or top and one on the bottom side or line side

3). There is a brown wire off of the capacitor marked fan that is hooked up to the capacitor as well

4). There is a black wire off the unit side of the contactor on the right side/top that goes to the fan motor as well.

I have not yet hooked up any of the compressor wiring

By my understanding of the schematic I am fine here

5). Breaker on, disconnect on, all voltages as you had described, set the timer for 1 minute

PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE WAS NO HUM OR FEEL OF ENERGY BEING DRAWN BY THE FAN MOTOR AT THIS POINT.

6). Dropped the tstat to 60....contactor pulled in and held/very low hum...voltages on line and unit side looked great....1 minute passed and the fan took off...air blowing up/pulling air through the unit

7). Reset T stat, turned disconnect off...voltages on unit side dropped to 0

8). Hooked up large diameter yellow wire to unit side of contactor on the same side of the contactor as the yellow wire that goes to the capacitor. In other words, these two yellow wires are right next to each other on the same unit side lug of the contactor (top/left)

9). Hooked up small diameter blue wire that goes to the compressor on the capacitor where marked HERM. Again this is consistent with the drawing

10). Hooked up large black diameter wire that goes to compressor to the "black wire side" of the contactor on the unit side. The black wire that goes to the fan motor and the black wire that goes to the compressor are on the same lug of the unit side of the contactor (top/right)

All of this is consistent with the drawing to the best of my ability to read it.

Through the disconnect back on.

With the Tstat set high/off...no 24 volts at coil...coil is not pulled in...the fan began to humm as I described before and started to get warm to hot. There is no 220 volts on the unit side of the contactor. Something can't be right here.

I stopped there. shut off disconnect and breaker

Do I have something wired wrong at this point in your opinion.

I am trying to do what you have asked. In order to get to the compressor leads, I'll have to pull the fan/screen off. No issue here.

Will take a crack at the step by step as you described earlier tomorrow.

My arms aren't long enough for the BIG HUG as you so politely mentioned....I often tell folks that I have to call in a local rigger to set I beams under the beds and furniture during these unplanned events.

Oh well...



 
  #47  
Old 10-17-01, 04:45 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Wiring

Hi Dan,

Do not do ANY of the sequences that have previously caused the Fan to humm and get warm/hot. Too many of these occurrences can/will burn the fan up. I'm in process of getting wiring schematic to your unit so I can see what's what. Do the items that won't bother Fan and hang tight for my reply back.I've got a good idea but want to look at schematic first.You're doing fine,we may make a fair to middlin A/C tech. outta you yet,huh?

Look closely at schematic for how the timer is wired in the circuit and decribe it to me,please?

Take Care and I guess you'll just have to substitute a KISS ON THE CHEEK for that BIG HUG!!!!! NOW be nice!!!!

CoolBreeze
 
  #48  
Old 10-18-01, 11:16 AM
dancad
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Stand Down

CoolBreeze

I send you my thoughts on the timer tonite

After that, I'll stand down until I hear back

The last time i gave my darling inlaw a Big Kiss, it was after a buddy of mine fed me a few of his home made Martini's...she got a kiss and I got quite the look.

Sept 11th brought his memory back to me, he was a consultant after the WTC first truck bomb attempt some years ago prior to his passing.

He, like you....made a civil/structural person out of me

Enjoy

Thanks again.

Is something drawing power from the fan motor where they have common connection...at the capacitor would be the logical spot.

 
  #49  
Old 10-18-01, 01:54 PM
dancad
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Timer Wiring

On the schematic, (and I am looking at the connection form)

From the tstat, there is a green, red and yellow wire.

The red wire is attached to one side of a 24V power supply. The other side of the connection at this power supply goes to an internal fan relay

The green wire goes to the other side of this internal fan relay

The line off of the internal fan relay ties into a brown wire, which goes to the 24 volt contactor



on one side of the 24 volt portion of the contactor, the schematic shows the blue wire under the optional plan which started off of the yellow tstat wire. That same point on the contactor shows a violet wire heading for the t2 point on the compressor time delay

on the other side of the 24v contactor, there is a black wire which goes to t3 on the timer. There is also the brown wire that goes all the way back to the internal fan relay.

That completes the 24 v side

There are two lines shown coming in L1 and L2. L2 is hooked to a yellow wire which goes to one leg of the outside fan motor

L1 ties to the other incoming lug. Nothing is tied to L1

On the other side of the contactor 220 v circuit:

The side opposite L2 goes to a yellow wire which leads to the compressor and to a yellow wire which goes to the capacitor. I have traced these, they are different diameter and am sure that they are going to the right places

The side opposite L1 goes to (2) black wires. One which goes to the fan motor and one which goes to the compressor

The last leg to the fan motor comes off the capacitor as a brown wire. This connection on the capacitor is marked fan

The last leg to the compressor is a bluw wire off of the capacitor which connects to the capacitor at the spot marked Herm.


This all appears to be wired correctly
 
  #50  
Old 10-18-01, 07:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
A/C

Hi Dan,

I've run into typical stall with Carrier trying to get the schematic,but have another route being done now. I have drawn a schematic by your descriptions also, am looking it over. I was gone all day today away from computer access, so I've just got this. Will look it over and get back to you tomorrow. I think right now it's a matter of getting all wiring correct to determine if any other electrical controls were damaged and then we can determine if Fan and/or Compressor is ok. If I was there, I could take the controls off the van and see what happened. That being said,it takes a little longer over computer because you don't want to replace controls only to find out the Fan and/or Compressor is bad and electrical controls are non-returnable.

One thing you could do for me is go back over your post and ANYWHERE you state about a connection and/or wire, FULLY detail EXACTLY where it is connected on the schematic.By this I mean is the wire connected with another wire at the lugs on contactor OR is it coming off the side on a seperate terminal.I also need the colors of ALL wires.
Also on the 24v coil connections,can you clarify what wires are grouped on which sides.By your decsription,(we may be on different pages),it sounds like there are multiple wires coming to the coil. The coil will have one or two terminals on each side (Silver),these are the ONLY 24v connections.The lugs at top and bottom and ALL the terminals coming off sides surrounding these 4 lugs are ALL Line/High Voltage (All 110/120vac)that are either ran by themselves as 110vac or ran together with another one to give 220vac.

For instance, you said a Blue that started as a Yellow at t-stat goes to one(?) side of 24v coil and then a Violet goes to T2 of Timer(Where was Violet connected at coil,beside the Blue? On other side you state a Brown from Relay,a Brown GOING back to Relay and a Black going to T3 on Timer.Are ALL these connected at the silver coil terminals and if so, which ones on which sides and how are they connected? I'm trying to get an EXACT picture of what you have and fully understand your meaning on each connection.I hope this makes sense.

BTW,I don't believe I would be KISSING cheeks after drinking Martini's, you may KISS the wrong CHEEK and she would OWN you then,LOL!!! Be CAREFUL in the home and out.

Take Care and I'll get back to you asap.Also,could you give me the part numbers if possible of the new contactor and the Timer?

CoolBreeze
 
  #51  
Old 10-18-01, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
24v coil

Hi Dan,

On the 24vac coil connections,you stated waaayyyy back that there was two silver terminals on each side. Does the schematic show a Yellow from t-stat wire-nutted to a Blue and going to one silver terminal on one side. Then a Violet from the other silver terminal on that SAME side going to T2 on Timer?

On the other side,a Black from one silver terminal going to T3 on Timer and a Brown from other silver terminal on THAT side going back to the Internal Fan Relay?

Is this right? One Blue and one Violet on seperate silver terminals on one side of the coil and one Black and one Brown on seperate silver terminals on the OTHER side of the coil?

Write back asap with this info.

Also,if you feel the need or urgency to talk to me on the phone on any of this,send me an e-mail and I'll e-mail you the number.

You think this NOVEL will ever become a "BEST SELLER"?

Take Care,

CoolBreeze
 
  #52  
Old 10-19-01, 02:31 AM
dancad
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Wires everywhere

CoolBreeze, I may need to down load all of this onto a cd rom

I still have the old contactor and use it for reference

One thing that I do recall is that the same fan hum that comes about now was present when this saga started and before any hardware/wiring was changed. This was a key that told me the unit was sick to begin with.

Will check the wiring again.

Once before we had a circumstance where the outside fan would run constantly and the air would never get cold and it turned out to be the timer ?

Perhaps the new contactor requires different wire set up than the old. I placed everything back in the physical spot were it was on the old one. The only question being around the wires that went to the 24V stuff

Will write back asap.

As far as the urgency, the weather here is too beautiful right now to be in any sort of panic. I'm looking forward to working on this Saturday

Thanks again

Mother In Law leaves today....
 
  #53  
Old 10-19-01, 02:47 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Wiring

Hi Dan,

Is your schematic taped/glued to a side panel or can it be physically removed? I'm trying several avenues to get the schematic asap. I'll probably end up with 10 before it's over with. If it can be removed, is/would it be possible to copy it and Fax it my way? I await your reply and there is definately a wiring cross somewhere or a backfeed of voltage.Take Care.

CoolBreeze
 
  #54  
Old 10-19-01, 06:16 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
A/C problem

Hi Dan,

Just a quick note to let ya know I have your Wiring Schematic. The print is small so it will take a little while to trace it out. I'll get back with you as soon as I have deciphered it.Take Care.


CoolBreeze
 
  #55  
Old 10-20-01, 09:05 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
A/C problem

Hi Dan,

This is not the normal way I would do this, but without a Contractor and your desire to repair yourself,this is only solution I can see. I had your schematic "Blown up" in size to get a great picture. I'm not going to go into details on what I believe it's doing at this time, but it is my belief that you need to replace the capacitor in order to take the next step. There could still be a problem with the Fan and/or Compressor, so I will leave this decision with you.

The Contactor was definately bad and I feel the Capacitor is also. Whether they damaged something else or something else damaged them,is yet to be determined.The steps I use to determine these things,I do not give out over the internet or w/o my presence,as it details alot of technical electrical troubleshooting. One cross-up of wiring or disconnecting alot of wiring could lead to further damage or at the least,create a mess for you.

I need to know ALL the controls that you can trace the 24v wiring through,that you can see inside your unit.Trace the t-stat wires,one by one,as they enter the unit and list their color and where they go,until they terminate at a control. This will tell me everything on your circuit,as your schematic shows different set-ups,with different controls,some you may have and some you may not.

To replace the capacitor,you'll need to turn off all power at Breaker, Disconnect and T-stat. Use needlenose pliers with insulated handles to remove wires (Mark where they are connected) and loosen holding strap/screws and remove. DO NOT TOUCH the bare terminals on the capacitor.You can take an insulated handled screwdriver (Large) and run the blade across the terminals,touching all of them at the same time, to short it out and reduce chances of getting shocked.BE VERY CAREFUL!!!! Again, this decision is yours to make.

I will await your reply, my biggest concern right now is the compressor,as we have not seen yet if it will run. I "Think" it is ok,but won't know w/o getting it powered up, thus need for new capacitor.I would not suggest running unit anymore,until we can determine if anymore problems are present.

I'm also going over your posts on how you have re-wired it, while comparing it to your schematic. So far, it looks good.

Take Care and Best Wishes.

CoolBreeze
 
  #56  
Old 10-20-01, 11:42 AM
dancad
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Capacitor

Logic would suggest the capacitor....since i handled this before so loosely and it doesn't appear to be able to pop on the compressor, plus the test that did not go full scale ohms when tested on any of the 3 legs...all points to it.

I will check the 24 v wiring tomorrow...there is nothing outside related to what it describes on the drawing, so i'll check in the attic.

I do believe that I have it wired right.

The capacitor is not off the shelf....I'll let you know the 24 v results tomorrow and the capacitor status on Monday

Take care...m.i.l. left and once this is solved, life will be good

Thanks again
 
  #57  
Old 10-20-01, 04:58 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Capacitor

Hi Dan,

Go back 3-4 posts to where you were detailing the 24v circuit and the 220v circuit from the Schematic Connection Diagram. If you have EACH wire DEFINATELY connected as you POSTED on here, then it is CORRECT. No need to go to attic. My only other question to clarify is where the Yellow comes from t-stat.Is it connected to the Blue going straight to contactor or the Blue to Black to Yellow going through the HPS, DTS, LPS to the Internal Fan Relay? Also,is the Black to Black going through the LLS tied to it also? Look at your schematic at the t-stat yellow. It shows it can be wire-nutted to 3 different wiring set-ups. Which one(s) is it hooked to? I would replace the capacitor and if/when it all clears up, I'll try to explain what has happened.Right now to keep from any more confusion, we'll leave it alone.

Be sure you get a MATCH on the capacitor in voltages and mfd's and it is marked for HERM and FAN and C so you'll know where the wires go.Take Care and I'll try to check in with you tommorrow afternoon/evening.

CoolBreeze
 
  #58  
Old 10-20-01, 05:28 PM
dancad
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24 volt side

cb

the 24 volt side shows up outside as 2 red wires, that's it

one red wire nuts to a blue wire

one red wire nuts to a brown wire

one of these goes to the timer, comes off as violet...goes to contactor

other goes right to contactor



that's it

were all the other sensor/switches go is beyond me...other than in the attic where the other chunk of the unit is


i am convinced that the 220 v side is right

i'm not so sure on the 24 v....you wrote a post on the 24 v several posts ago...please revisit and let me know if that still applies now that you have the dwg

how much do you think the capacitor will be ?



stay cool and stay in touch

Dan

 
  #59  
Old 10-20-01, 07:06 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
24vac circuit

Hi Dan,

Things are alot clearer with the schematic. I have 7 of them,Big clear letters making it easy to read,you want one?

New instructions just in case.: You can turn off ALL power to ALL units,in/out,downstairs/attic. Undo BOTH Red wires from their connections at outside unit entrance. Have your wife stay there and you go to attic unit,remove side panel and look where t-stat wires (red,yellow,green,white,etc wrapped in outer brown wire sheathing)enters the unit from t-stat.Trace the yellow from that point to find where it ties into the red at the point it is exiting the unit aiming down toward outside unit.See if you can pull on it SLIGHTLY to make it move to where your wife can pinpoint which red wire it is.If you can't do that, then trace the red in the t-stat wiring to the transformer. On the same side opposite of where that red connects at transformer, you'll have an outgoing wire going to the Indoor fan Relay.You should have a Red leaving the IFR at that same point aiming down and exiting unit.Pull slightly on it. Just try to pull on one or the other to where your wife can see it move outside. If she sees one move, be sure you do it again to make sure YOU know which wire you pulled when seen it move. You only have to identify one of them, it doesn't matter which one.One comes from T-Stat Yellow and one from the IFR. Your wife can hold onto the one that moved and when you get down there, you'll know if was the T-Stat Yellow or the one from the IFR you were pulling. The one from the T-STAT YELLOW wire-nuts to the BLUE and goes staight to the Compressor Time Delay - T1. The VIOLET then runs from T2 on the Timed Delay to the L2 side 24vac coil terminal (Silver Terminal).You then run the BLACK wire from T3 on Timed delay to the OTHER SIDE 24vac Silver Coil Terminal.

The OTHER RED wire-nuts to the BROWN and runs to the second 24vac Silver Coil Terminal BESIDE where the BLACK wire connects.

The GREEN from T-Stat will connect opposite of the RED going outside on the IFR.


On 220vac circuit: From where L2 enters contactor,you'll run a Yellow straight to Fan Motor. From Unit side opposite L2,you'll have Larger Yellow going to "R" on Compressor and Smaller Yellow going to "C" on Capacitor.

Unit side of contactor opposite of L1, you'll have a Larger Black going to "C" on Capacitor and a smaller Black going straight to the Fan motor.

The other remaining connection on the Fan Motor has a Brown going from it to "FAN" on the Capacitor.

You'll then have a BLUE going from "S" on the Compressor to the "HERM" on the Capacitor.

MAKE sure outdoor condenser coil and indoor attic coil and filter and indoor Blower/wheel are ALL CLEAN also.

Go over these to make sure they are ALL done and correct as listed,leave unit off and purchase capacitor. I'll get back with you tomorrow.You're doing great.Prices vary on the capacitors, guesstimate would be $20 - $40.00,but don't quote me on it after the contactor pricing scenario,lol.

Take Care,

CoolBreeze
 
  #60  
Old 10-21-01, 10:29 AM
dancad
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all looks fine

CoolBreeze,

The capacitor is off

I pulled the fan assembly off the top and hosed it down thoroughly with a low pressure garden hose, pulled cover off compressor leads...all 3 are intact and tight.

Everything you sent in last post is ok except that there are only (2) leads off of the timer. Just 2, not 3.

I'll refer back your prior note on how to figure the 24 v stuff out.

Will open up panel in attic this evening

Can you expand on what the capacitor does and why you think its given up the battle

Thanks

Dan
 
  #61  
Old 10-21-01, 11:20 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Timed Delay

Hi Dan,

What do you have AT the unit connected at the Timed Delay? The schematic shows you should have a Blue from Yellow (T-stat) going to T1 (One End) and a Violet going from T2 to one side of Coil and a Black from OTHER side of coil going back to T3 on Timed Delay. Does your Timed Delay have T1, T2 and T3 and do you have the Blue, Violet and Black wires?

Write back with this info,this is what you SHOULD have.

Take Care,

CoolBreeze
 
  #62  
Old 10-21-01, 11:37 AM
dancad
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2 leads only

There are only 2 leads at the time delay....T1 and T3. There is no T2 and there has never been a black wire since the day I opened the panel

There is what appears to be a wire that runs between the 2, though it is hard to tell what that wire does

The red wire from the tstat that carries the 24 v when turned on is wire nutted to a blue wire which goes to T3, marked Input, 19-240 VAC. The timer has a red dial set for 0.3

The T1 lead has the violet wire coming off of it. It is marked Load 1.5 amps.

The other red wire off the tstat is wire nutted to a brown wire. With the tstat on, it has 0 volts ac. It connects to the other side of the coil. Why doesn't this wire have any juice...or does it turn the contactor off when the requested temp is achieved ?

When you drop the tstat, she does energize, pulls in, There is 0 ohms between the line and unit sides of the contactor, but something is strange

L1 unit side to L1 line side - o hms

same is true for L2

L2 line side to L1 unit side (and vicaversa) also shows 0 ohms

That's what I have. I am convinced that the 220V side is wired right.

I went into the attic and the tstat wires are on a circuit board.

I think this is wired correctly across the board
 
  #63  
Old 10-21-01, 12:23 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
24vac circuit

Hi Dan,

Is this the original Timed Delay that came with the unit or has it been replaced in the past?

Do not check for Ohms with any voltage applied,it will damage your Meter.

To measure ohms on L1 and L2, you would have to turn off ALL power,tie 2 of the ends together at one end and place leads across the other 2 ends.

On the coil, the 24 volts is being "used" at the coil, thus 0 volts from other side to ground.That is your neutral side to return to power source to complete the circuit.

Just be sure that the Yellow from t-stat ties to a Red and then ties to the Blue going to the Timed delay. The other Red comes from the Indoor Fan relay and ties to the Brown going to one side of coil.

The Red coming from the Yellow t-stat will show 24vac to ground with t-stat ON and the Red from the IFR will show 0vac to ground.

Most,if not all,of the readings you're getting are correct.It's confusing because you don't have a full understanding of Electrical Troubleshooting with a Meter.It's NOT what you would expect it to be. In other words, alot of times,you would expect to read voltage and when you don't,you think it's wrong,when in that situation, it is right if it shows 0 volts and vice-versa. Be careful,testing across the wrong wires,in the wrong manner, could damage the meter,the unit or get you shocked.

Take Care,

CoolBreeze
 
  #64  
Old 10-21-01, 12:36 PM
dancad
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timer

CoolBreze

the timer is a replacment. was done about 3 years ago

Could you give me some insight about the capacitor

Thanks

Dan
 
  #65  
Old 10-22-01, 06:56 AM
dancad
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Capacitor

CoolBreeze:

I was able to locate a replacement capacitor locally. $48.00

When I took the capacitor to the parts house, he took a capacitance meter and meausred the capacitance on the compressor connection at 36.8 microfarads....should have been 55 mf.

He measured the fan capacitance leg at 5 mf....rated for 5 mf

He agrees that the capacitor is weak....should measure within 10 % or rating. He would not sell the capacitor to me unless I tested each wire at the compressor with one lead from my vom on the ohm scale to the casing of the compressor motor, which would determine (in his mind) whether or not the compressor has gone to ground.

Any ideas


Thanks

Dan
 
  #66  
Old 10-22-01, 10:59 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Compressor to ground check

Hi Dan,

Set your meter for Highest Ohm setting. Turn off ALL power to unit and check to be sure it's off. Take needlenose pliers and carefully remove leads from compressor terminals at the compressor AFTER you make a NOTE where they go.Take a knife or screwdriver and scrape the paint off of a spot on the outer shell casing of the compressor down to bare metal (No Paint),just big enough to place meter lead to it and make good contact w/o the paint. Then place your negative meter lead tight against that bare spot and hold it there and at same time, one by one,place your positive lead on each compressor terminal pin. If your meter shows ANY ohms (Movement), from ANY terminal to the casing,your Compressor has shorted to ground and must be replaced. I had thought you had did this already, but I may have misunderstood one of your earlier posts.

The Capacitor is definately bad/weak.You can also while you're at it, go ahead and check your compressor for an open winding.Place one meter lead to any one terminal pin and place other lead to the other 2 pins,one and then the other.Go around the 3 pins checking each one to the other 2 with meter on lowest ohm setting.You should show movement in each test.No movement in any test indicates an open winding and the compressor will have to be replaced.

Did the unit run ok after the Timed Delay was replaced 3 years ago? The one on it now is different from the schematic and it appears the set-up is different from the schematic wiring.If the Compressor shows good on those checks,the Capacitor should take care of it,if all the wiring is correct.

I apoligize for not getting back to you sooner, but things are getting busy here and I'm having some medical problems that I'm having tests for that's consuming alot of my time.Take Care and I'll await your reply.

CoolBreeze
 
  #67  
Old 10-23-01, 01:55 AM
dancad
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Compressor Test

CoolBreeze:

I set the ohm meter for resistance x 1000 yesterday and touched the negative to the casing of the compressor and the positive to each lead at the compressor one at a time. The needle did move, (barely) and to the same spot for all 3 leads.

Compressor good or compressor bad ?

Dan
 
  #68  
Old 10-23-01, 06:22 AM
dancad
Visiting Guest
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Correction on Compressor Test

Correction.

When the negative is placed to bare metal on the motor casing and the positive placed on each lead. The ohm meter does to "0" ohms

What's the verdict ?
 
  #69  
Old 10-23-01, 10:14 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Compressor Test

Hi Dan,

If you placed your lead on a good,scraped,Bare,clean,metal surface Of outside Compressor shell casing and your other lead to EACH Comp. Terminal Pin, one by one,with wires removed and all power off and meter set for highest OHMS setting and you had ANY MOVEMENT and/or READINGS on your meter,then the compressor motor windings have come in contact with the compressor housing and "shorted to ground".In this case, the Compressor is bad and it will have to be replaced or the Condensing Unit replaced,whichever one is the most cost efficient and best for you.

If that is indeed the situation,I hate to hear that.I also would not replace or change-out anything right now as it's getting cooler and the cost will be lessened as summer turns to winter.

Take Care and Best Wishes.

CoolBreeze
 
  #70  
Old 10-23-01, 02:06 PM
dancad
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Thanks for all the help....!!!!!

I'll let you know how I make out

Dan
 
  #71  
Old 10-23-01, 02:22 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Compressor

Hi Dan,

You're welcome,glad I could help. I wish the outcome would have been better, but hopefully you gained some valuable insight to the world of HVAC. Keep in touch and let us know the final outcome. Take Care and Best Wishes.

PS: Look on the bright side,if it had been during Hotter weather,you may have had to go stay with your M-I-L!!!!

Sincerely,

CoolBreeze
 
  #72  
Old 10-23-01, 03:22 PM
dancad
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Posts: n/a
Low Blow

'nuff said on the MIL topic
 
  #73  
Old 10-23-01, 04:23 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
???? Low Blow ????

Did I miss something here? I'm sorry if you were offended, that wasn't the intent. However,I do fail to see anything that would appear as a Low Blow,considering your responses on this subject.Obviously,you feel differently,so I'll call it a day. Take Care.

CoolBreeze
 
  #74  
Old 10-25-01, 03:08 PM
dancad
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
New Unit

CooBreeze...no offense taken at all

I found a new unit that I can get for $1000 - brand new 5 ton with a reputable brand name...same cost as a new compressor for whatI have...your thoughts
 
  #75  
Old 10-25-01, 03:57 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
New Unit

Hi Dan,

There are several things to consider here. What would the total costs be for Parts/Unit and labor/installation? If the cost is relatively close,I would go with the unit. If you replace the compressor and a year from now,your Fan Motor quits or your Outdoor Condensing Coil springs a leak,the cost would well exceed what you could have bought the new unit for.You should always weigh everything out NOW and a few years into the FUTURE.With your past and present electrical problems with your unit and it being 7 years old,I wouldn't replace the compressor if I could get the new unit for close to same price. What kind of warranty did the compressor (Old one) have on it? Also consider the warranties being offered on the comp. and the new unit.

Another thing to consider is how efficient will this new unit be matched/connected with a 7 year old Indoor Evaporator Coil? What condition is the evap. coil in,any rust spots or past problems.If you replace just the condensing unit,it has to match your existing evap. coil.

With summer basicly over, I would go slow and get several estimates and weigh them out.Condensing unit change out only,compressor replacement,cond. unit and evap. coil changeout,all new system inside and out.Always remember and consider the extra cost if one of the other components quits within a year or two and what additional cost would be added to your cost for your decision now.It can add up and it DOES happen.

I would suggest you have a reputable contractor look at your entire system and give you a recommendation as to each components condition and then sit down with your wife and carefully make the best decision for you.Based on your statement,it sounds as if a cond. unit replacement,cond. unit and evap. coil replacement or entire system replacement would be best.Just be sure you think about future problems when you decide.

Take Care and Best Wishes and feel free to write back if you have further concerns/questions.Please keep us posted if you make a decision.

Sincerely,

CoolBreeze

[Edited by CoolBreeze on 10-25-01 at 09:13]
 
  #76  
Old 10-26-01, 02:09 PM
dancad
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
coleman

coolbreeze

the unit i am considering is a coleman brcs060 condenser.

the source is http://www.1source2buy.com

cost w/shipping is under $1000

i have an a/c tech tod do the change out

do you know of the coleman brand...made by york

thanks

dan
 
  #77  
Old 10-26-01, 02:50 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 211
Coleman

Hi Dan,

Yes, Coleman is well known around here as they're one of the 3-4 top manufacturers for Manufactured Housing Units.

The old saying,"You get what you pay for" is coming to mind about this time. I do not deal with the internet shopping networks,I do not install units purchased from there and I do not advise my customers to go there. My suggestions on this situation can be found by referring back to my last post,but ultimately,it's your decision to make and live with if something goes wrong.

Is your A/C Tech licensed,bonded,insured,epa certified,have all required equipment for install and does he offer a good warranty on his work and does the unit manufacturer accept him as the installer so as to validate their warranty and are you sure the tech and/or the seller/internet store are going to be there if you have a problem later on? There is more to this than just picking out another 5-ton unit and jerking one out and slapping the other one in.

Good Luck in your decision.Take Care and Best Wishes.

CoolBreeze
 
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