8 Years & an Impeachment

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  #1  
Old 03-21-04, 02:10 PM
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Talking 8 Years & an Impeachment

What do U believe? Do you think anyone cares today?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4571338/

With Billionares funding who knows how many Reliogus Zelots who just want to Kill every American. What are many Citizens thinking about today? It's hard to tell when everyones out for themselves.

I saw a Women with a sign that said " Bush let my son come home". Do you think she ever understood her Son was never Drafted, but joined the Armed Forces? Perhaps not, you can lead a person to knowledge, but not make them think.

After 8 years & an Impeachment King Klinton want's to know why Bush acted as he did after 911. Many others want to know why Klinton gave the Mad Men & their Armys of Death Squads, a free pass for 8 years & an Impeachment.

Others just believe if they don't think about it, then everything will be peachy keen. America has never fought a War like we are in today & still we have people who want to come on home & everything will turn out just Okey Dokey.

History teaches us that when an Empire get's Fat & complacent, that Empire will fall. In just over 200 years we as a Nation have done exactly what it took the Roman Empire Thousands of years to do. Get Fat & complacent

The time for talk is over, we live in a fragmented Country where many only think of ME! The Me Generation is in power now so don't expect the Public Servant to act any different than the Klintons did for 8 years & an Impeachment.

The Huns are at the door & everyones home watching TV. If we just paid more attention in History class then. Then what?

Did you read the whole news article? Just write what you feel, only don't send me any letters please. This as they say is just my .02 cents.

Try to understand I am generalizing & not implying that anyone here is Fat or complacent. In fact you being a DIYer says you do care what happens, more than many others who won't even try to help themselves.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-21-04, 04:46 PM
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Talking My Two Cents

Hi Marturo

History teaches us that when an Empire get's Fat & complacent, that Empire will fall. In just over 200 years we as a Nation have done exactly what it took the Roman Empire Thousands of years to do. Get Fat & complacent
Agreed.

The worse is yet to come for America. It's called "Outsourcing"
Any job that can be done by phone, fax or computer is history.
Gone over seas forever. Just like many of our manufacturing, textile, garment industries & agriculture, to name a few.

The enemy is within. We can defend against those whom come here to harm us. We are not protecting ourselves from within.

Our trade policies & tariffs do more for other countries than it does for America. Notice the trade deficit lately? More than you and or I can pay off in our life times.

So we leave that to our kids to pay???? And who is going to pay for our social security? Our employer benefits? The next generation with no jobs? or under-employed...

In 20 years or so give or take, America will be a true service only economy. Few factories, little manufacturing, no service industries that can be done remotely, etc.

Problem is, you cannot sell or provide a service to those whom do not have money....$$$$. The "Middle Class" built America and it's economy. And they keep it running. (Hopefully without credit cards)

Jobs are needed. Not just small business jobs (whom do not have to pay high wages and provide no benefits) but true high paying blue collar jobs in industries for the middle class workers of America.

Education should be much more well funded by us tax payers. Best investment for our long term future is a well educated person earning a high wage and paying the taxes on it too.

They spend it in our economy, pay the social security of the retired and the taxes. Soon enough to be me collecting SS...and who will pay my benefits? My best investment is in our kids future.

IMO we are not on the right path in the best interests of America.
 
  #3  
Old 03-21-04, 05:00 PM
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Unhappy History repeats itself...

History teaches us that when an Empire get's Fat & complacent, that Empire will fall. In just over 200 years we as a Nation have done exactly what it took the Roman Empire Thousands of years to do. Get Fat & complacent
Funny, I was just discussing this with a friend of mine the other day - after seeing "The Passion..."

She didn't grow up in the church as I did. She saw the movie, but of course, not "reading the book" she didn't understand much of it. So, she asked me about a lot of the events.

Of course, we got on the subject of "how could someone do that to another person?" And, that lead us to the Roman Empire and how their culture - the Roman Colliseums, the Gladiators, etc. - and how they compare to America today. Rome was a world leader, a huge empire; not much unlike America today.

Of course, we all know what happened to Rome.

To be continued...
 
  #4  
Old 03-21-04, 05:22 PM
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Continued:

Another Two Cents In the Pot:

Noticed the National Debt? If debt is so bad, why are we as a country so far in debt? Why is it okay to allow an entire country to be so far in debt yet not good for individuals???

America has more than I could pay for in my share of in the years I have left to work!!! My kids are now left with that debt of which they did not create. We are leaving them our debts but our parents did not do that to us! Nor would they.

Out-sourcing is the new politically correct term for "Explotation Of Cheap Labor Aboard." America uses workers in foreign countries like slaves for cheap labor.

The people are employed in their own countries granted. But far too many never earn enough $$$ to eek out a good living in their own countries.

Many foreign workers cannot even buy the products they produce which we are forced to buy because America no longer makes that product here. May be a good product...but it isn't made here!

Once that money leaves our country, it never returns.
Once those in high tech (as an example) never thought the day would come their jobs would be Out-Sourced.

They, like many others, paid no attention or cared about a factory or plant closing to go aboard regardless of which state it was in. It did not effect them directly.

It does now.
"The chickens are coming home to roost"
What are we allowing to be done to us is pitiful.

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  #5  
Old 03-21-04, 07:26 PM
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As I read the Constitution & the Bill of Rights I see no where that a Government has any obligation to do more than open markets overseas.

That's right at one time everyone was a small buisness. Even if I raised chickens & eggs I could trade/Barter for knife & tool sharpening etc.

When we developed large Factorys so we could produce more for faster larger profits we hired labor from what he was doing with Chickens & eggs. That meant a Chicken & egg Farm with Shoe makers as labor as we built Shoe factorys.

When we can no longer buy goods from China remember not all in china but those who work for peanuts, will be able to buy what they made, & they will only be able to pay peanuts.

This so called golden days will be over for the Megacorporations as soon as the middle class stops shopping at Wal-Mart.

Many of our Children, will go back to Barter to survive. Just as we have evolved to this point of expecting the Government to create jobs from thin air, our kids will need to become DIYers for them & their Familys survival.

This is social evolution & it seldom if ever returns back to the way it once was. I must say that it makes me feel somewhat better to know I have gone out of my way to have learned how to do it myself for so long I don't even know any other way today.

This must be why I was drawn here to DIY. I have just about done it myself for everything I needed. Now is the time to learn to DIY & not look back at an America, that will never be the same again.
 
  #6  
Old 03-22-04, 07:32 AM
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As I read the Constitution & the Bill of Rights I see no where that a Government has any obligation to do more than open markets overseas.
Nor do I see anywhere in the Constitution where it gives the right to our own government the right to use our tax money to provide financial support to companies to move aboard.

But is exactly what they are and have been doing. The organization doing so is called OPIC. Overseas Private Investment Corp.

And fully funded by tax payers money to boot. We are paying taxes to de employ ourselves. Does than make sense? Not to me it doesn't. Seems our gov should be doing exactly the opposite.

This so called golden days will be over for the Megacorporations as soon as the middle class stops shopping at Wal-Mart.
Unfortunitly this will not happen as along as our country continues to allow and fund agencies like OPIC.

Less jobs & lower wages equal less spendable income which equals bargain shopping at places like giant retailers selling any product it can for less.

We have become bargain shoppers by force for a lack of income working for lower wages as our good jobs are outsourced. A cycle that will not stop unless America is willing to stop exporting our industrial base.

The downwards spiral is continuing and will do so regardless of whom is in the white house. We the people have little to say and what we do say makes no difference and is not heard.

Doing for oneself is fine. But it does not create wealth for the middle class workers whom built the country for the mega giant corps. Nor whom created the standards passed along to us.

But why must we as a society go backwards and be forced to do so is beyond me. Why must we be forced into leaving our kids so far in debt? Is that also acceptable?

Under educating them is also acceptable? Our intrastructure is failing and that's aceptable too? All of which above and more is beyond me. And why we allow and tollerate it is beyond me too.

And the beat goes on. How about any of you reading this thread? Toss in your 2 cents.
 
  #7  
Old 03-22-04, 03:12 PM
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>>I saw a Women with a sign that said " Bush let my son come home". Do you think she ever understood her Son was never Drafted, but joined the Armed Forces? Perhaps not, you can lead a person to knowledge, but not make them think. <<

Maybe he enlisted to defend his country, not rebuild a country that has a history of hating The United States. With our economy the way it is many hopeful students see the military as the only way to get college tuition.

>>After 8 years & an Impeachment King Klinton want's to know why Bush acted as he did after 911. Many others want to know why Klinton gave the Mad Men & their Armys of Death Squads, a free pass for 8 years & an Impeachment.<<

There needed to be retaliation for the acts of terrorism on 9/11. After that our border security needed to be scrutinized by the gov't and secured by the military. With our military, we should have the safest borders in the world, even if it is a little hassle for folk who travel abroad.

>>The Huns are at the door & everyones home watching TV. If we just paid more attention in History class then. Then what?<<

We would be living behind fortified borders, but our land would be a safe one.

Make yourself be heard

Participate in your government by being in contact with your congressman, their job is to listen to you.

If you support the war or not, support the military personell who risk their lives for us. Give blood! Shovel the walk or mow the lawn for the wife of a soldier who is away from home. If you're an employer and have empolyees in the war in Iraq, make sure their families are able to get by. This war is also being fought by the soldier's families here, at home.
 
  #8  
Old 03-22-04, 03:55 PM
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Talking to each their own I guess

If you support the war or not, support the military personell who risk their lives for us. Give blood! Shovel the walk or mow the lawn for the wife of a soldier who is away from home. If you're an employer and have empolyees in the war in Iraq, make sure their families are able to get by. This war is also being fought by the soldier's families here, at home.

I am 52 & joined the U.S. Armed Forces at 17, you can do the math. Funny how long it took us to learn. Support the Man or Woman who put's it all on the line, for each & everyone of us.

What a wonderful welcome home I got, i'll never forget how kind everyone was, when I got back. I spent the first 15 years after I got back, never saying a word about being in the Military. Who knew what would have happened to my Family & myself here in my own Country.

Secure the borders of the USA? We can't even keep drugs & human imports out of our Country now. The only way to win this War, is to Hunt down & destroy those who would kill our Children without remorse. Anything short of that reality, of kill or be killed is just a pipe dream.

How about any of you reading this thread? Toss in your 2 cents.
 
  #9  
Old 03-22-04, 04:19 PM
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If you support the war or not, support the military personell who risk their lives for us. Give blood! Shovel the walk or mow the lawn for the wife of a soldier who is away from home. If you're an employer and have empolyees in the war in Iraq, make sure their families are able to get by. This war is also being fought by the soldier's families here, at home.

That was not directed at anyone, it is advice for everyone.

We need to help out however we can.
 
  #10  
Old 03-24-04, 05:53 AM
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Thumbs up Full Agreement

I fully agree, supporting the troops is essential and should go without saying it. But are we as a nation doing so? I think not. We have, as a nation, not done very well in that area.

We have, as a nation, in my opinion, shifted our priorities far too much away from supporting the troops both while in active service and much more once the troops retuen to American soil.

Our troops are drastically underpaid while in active service, while on reserve and after they leave the military. The whole spectrum is highly unsupported, in my opinion and in almost every aspect.

For far too many years, starting in the early 80's, monies where not provided at rates which fairly compensated miltiary personal. Remembering back to than, the cuts and underfundings begin as the federal gov began cutting the budgets at the fed levels.

The burdons where so much to bare, the sprouses as well as the troops began the protests for increases to the monthly pays, spousal support, etc, it was than the Clinton admin raised the benefits and the salaries to the military troops.

Not enough, in my opinion, but some increases resulted and the protests stopped. Local news nolonger had the complaints and protests on the nightly news reports.

If memory serves me, the 80's budget cuts happened while Reagan was in office. Burduns where shifted to the states. Fed taxes decreased and state tax increased to offset the shortfalls than resulted.

Not long afterwards, the effects of the so called, "Trickle Down" economics began to be felt by the middle class. Cuts everywhere resulted at the fed levels and increases resulted at the state levels.

States financial situations began to become over burdoned and many became underfunded. Many ran and are still running deficits and some filled for bankruptcy.

"Trickle Down" economics did not result very much, if at all, for the middle and lower classes. "Trickle Down" economics was soon phrased "Tinkle Down" economics....

Regardless of the phrasing used, the concept has not helped nor improved the lives nor the living standards for far too many Americans, IMO.

Are you better off now than you where than? For some us, for most not so. As Americans we owe to much national and trade debt. As a result, we are doing without here at home and leaving our next generation a huge debt which they did not create.

All the money thus far spent and all that will be spent in the future overseas will not come back into our treasuries. We are building nations aboard at the expense of our taxpayers and our nation.

BTW:
Impeachment? Who was impeached?
Did I missout on something?...
 

Last edited by Sharp Advice; 03-24-04 at 10:34 AM.
  #11  
Old 03-24-04, 10:03 AM
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Smile Hindsight

Looking back over my sholder.

Funny how we have been blinded by both the Press & their Government handlers. Does anyone remember Gores famous Reinventing the government & RIF Reduction in Force. How similar is that to rolling up your Factory & moving to China? Both take and deep 6 American jobs.

Have any of you read of the Union Wars in the US? When the Janitor at Colt Firearms was making just at $20.00 per hour in 1970. Did you wonder why it took half a months wages to but a small Colt 38 Spl snubnose? How could you as an Auto Mechanic making under $5.00 per hour in Ga ever own one, and the many under paid non Union workers down South?

How about GM who was hireing Female HS Grads for $17.00 per hr. Today it starts at $40,000 to buy a safe well made SUV. Can anyone say they are safer in todays plastic 1,700 pound lightweights?

Remember the Factorys moved South first before they moved overseas to escape the Unions. While the many people of the World were living in what they could find in American junk yards to sleep out of the rain. We had Yuppis making millions in the Stock markets.

Living low on the hog in a Military family is not a new thing. Had we not been issued housing & given breaks on our needs. Don't even believe we could have lived in the US on what the ARMY paid my Father.

As I see it that 2 or 3 percent who control everything in America will have a nation of servants if we don't learn to do it ourselves. Living on 5 acres & doing for yourself looks a lot better to me that becoming a Peon. To be Continued----->
 
  #12  
Old 03-24-04, 11:09 AM
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Remember the Factorys moved South first before they moved overseas to escape the Unions. While the many people of the World were living in what they could find in American junk yards to sleep out of the rain.
Yep. Remember those days very well.

The later part of the Reagan years and over into the Bush Sr years. A phrase was coined at that time to describe the circumstances. "Reaganism" and "Tinkle Down Economics."

Few years later in to the Bush Sr years, the phrase was retitled slightly. "Reaganism Without Reagan"...

During Reganism another phrased was also coined:

"Reagan Does Love Poor People. He's Creating Millions Of Them."

The legacy lives on. The effects are well felt in America. And the beat goes on.

Another failed chapter in America recent history was de regulation. In all fairness, Jimmy Carter started the deregulation concept. He did not act on it. Reagan did.

Trucking and airline industries where one of the first industries to feel the pinch and begin to fail. Banks soon followed and many other industries did as well as time moved on.

Deregulation was suppose to provide us with more choices not less. We now have less smaller companies in almost every industry not more.

In some cases the surviving companies are still running under bankruptcy. Supported by taxpayer monies because they are industries considered vital to our economy.

Others not so, thus they either failed, where bought up, or moved outside of America. Some taken over to be sold off in whole or part to enrichen the pockets of some wall street crowds.

Americans where sold a bill of goods. Moving companies South of our boarders was to the benefit of us as well as those South of us. Neither was true.

The story was to help raise the living standards of our neighbors to our South by providing them with jobs so they could earn decent wages and live better.

Second part of that was to provide lower cost products for Americans. Neither resulted. The standards of living to our fellow workers south of us never happened and never will happen.

That phrase is called indentured slavery for low wages to enrichen the pockets of the mega corps and the wall street crowd.

The plan worked very well for those two groups (mega corps & wall street) but not for Americans workers or for our neighbors to our southern boarders.

Out sourcing is yet the latest BUZZ word. Politically correct term for Exploting Cheap Labor Aboard. While Americans whom are willing to work have less jobs to choose from and some none.

The effects are well felt in America. And the beat goes on.

OPPS! Almost forgot one.

Another phrase just came to mind during those years.

"That Giant Sucking Sound." Listen closely. You can still hear it...
 
  #13  
Old 03-24-04, 05:04 PM
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Why the smoke works so well.

I just got done watching another example of why it's folly to blame or thank the figure head we elect as president every 4 years.

Before 911 the CIA continued to refuse the administration any use of the predator to gather intel in Afganistan. Why? Because it came out of their budget & they did not want to lose 1.

As the Admin tried to get intel from the CIA the leaders of the CIA said they lacked the man power due to the heavy military cuts. When the Admin heard the Air Force had a project to arm the Predator the Cia refused to allow any use saying that it would make it more dangerious to be an Agent of the CIA.

I'm wondering how we can say President so & so did this or that when there are thousands of Government employees & hundreds of agencys all worried about their budgets tell the White House just what they can & cannot do. In fact before 911 these Men & Women went around proudly saying "Well they only killed 35 Americans".

Then 30,000 people were blown to pieces right in front of the people we trust to protect America. All because we don't want to take the heat for them says the CIA & our budget will be cut if we lose one of those planes. Don't tell the FBI we are in charge of this.

Getting the people to blame who you want them to & not see what is really going on behind the scenes, is the oldest trick in politics. I doubt the messenger ( Clark ) will be heard who is telling us all about how the different branches just cover their butts. Our Press is allready hard at work destroying the messenger.

Giving credit to or blaming the President is no different than beliving the Queen of England is in charge of more than Social funtions. The people who affect our lives are never elected or seen through all the smoke layers they surround themselves with. They not We the People have run Americia for so long they know we have not a clue & when we do get close, even our friends will say, Aw your just paranoid man.

Long live King George Opps just a figure of speach. Like a figure head who can be told by unelected citizens who call all the shots. Not elected? How do we control all that power they have? We can't, that's the part that will destroy us in the end. Not some figure head.
 
  #14  
Old 03-24-04, 05:51 PM
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Absolutely correct! Makes no difference which party is in office or whom the president is. The downwards cycle of America has been started and it will not stop regradless of party or person in office.

The term "Level Playing Field" has meaning to all this too. We where told it meant to adjust tariffs to balance prices of import goods with American products. Not so.

What it meant was, lower our American workers wages and standard of living down to that of the foreign countries workers. Evidence of such is plainly visable in our job markets.

Anything that can be done abroad will be move offshore and out of America for cheaper wages and mfg costs. Period.

American companies did move out of the country because of unions but that was not the sole reason. Air pollution was another factor as was the water pollution.

Add in the ag business not allowed to use most chemicals to prevent produce damage, spill over and suites from health damage and the results are now plainly evident there too.

Toss in high workers comp, medical costs and the job loss in this country is accelerated. Employers aboard could not care less about workers, whom are a dime a dozen.

Add in company taxes to federal gov, state gov and local govs and the pressures mount to move out of American. All factors no single president can overcome or reverse.

And the middle class worker gets the squeeze everytime. Mr & Mrs Joe 6 Pack have no real idea what has been done to them in the past and what is currently happening to them presently.

The downward spirals are resulting from our failed American policies. Our failed priorities to better help ourselves in this country to remain the greatest and most productive country ever.

Americans are the best there is in any business or industry. Our so called learders have betrayed us all. The policies they draft vote on and pass work against us and not for us. They are not in our best interests as a country.

The pace of that downwards spiral will speed up with the help of technology and computers. It's pace will continue and the beat will go on.
10 to 15 years from now, very few industries will remain, most technology will be done aboard, phone help will be done aboard and all that will be left is businesses that cannot move out will remain.

Problem is, small businesses cannot pay good wages to workers, provide some bennies and make money. Whom will these small businesses sell to? Can't sell anything to anyone who does not have money to pay for services and products.

"Trickle Up" has begun while "Tinkle Down" happens....

Anyone else have "Two Cents?"
The ring to toss them into is right here...
 

Last edited by Sharp Advice; 03-24-04 at 06:04 PM.
  #15  
Old 03-24-04, 11:22 PM
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Interesting concept: sniping at administrations (during an election year); avoiding causes (possibly instigating more conflict than this board will bear), and pre-apologizing, because someones feelings may be hurt. How politically correct.

Maybe that's why this post is relegated to Chats & Whines.
Having fun?


Americans chose the role of Consumer Nation all by themselves. The offer was extended, and they bit, hook, and sinker. They voted, or went along for the ride accordingly.

A political idea, affiliation, leader, or leaders, cannot save people from their own misdeeds. If the constitution is the ultimate measure of principled conduct, it is not the duty nor the responsibility of the government to provide jobs, health care, prescription drugs, or ..omitted due to time...

With the average American well heeled in debt (much of it owned by foreign financial institutions), and unable to pay but the minimum finance charge and a small portion of the principal, why should foreign capitalists reinvest in an ill conceived manufacturing base and refinance debts owed to them.

"I will raise the conciseness of Americans". "Using available finical tools we will rebuild on our own". Then what? Will you pay their foreign debts with Treasury Gold.

"We will endure runaway inflation for the sake of our children". Natch, none will stray to temptation.

Pollution credits! We don't need no stinking pollution credits. Obedient to the core, we will raise the funds for clean emission controls, waste water treatment, and land fills. We will displace no one; abscond no lands; vanquish no species, while building power sources; improving the power gird; revitalize fuel pipelines; build aqueducts and watersheads, and address the needs of ever increasing interstate, intrastate, ocean, and air, transportation.

We will make our goods of sticks and stones, and broken bones. Chinas rapid infrastructure expansion [you paid for it] along with the needs of other nations and the resulting World wide shortage of finite metals and ores, and plastics, will not deter us from creating a new manufacturing base.

If we cannot sell to the rest of the World we will trade among ourselves. Do you accept Visa(?), Master Card(?), or American Express? No, we only accept wheelbarrows full.

What a load....

No doubt, if Mexican Labor Laws were offered, they would be swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Housing, power, water, and health care are paid; workers are paid net wages.

Agreed. Things will get worse. Adapt or be complacent. It's a choice.
 
  #16  
Old 03-25-04, 07:03 AM
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My Take On The Discussion

As the header indicates, my take on this discussion is not politically motivated due to any elections forth comming nor is it any political party specific.

May appear that way but upon my reading the thread, no one posting here has blamed any party. The discussion is how America got into this mess. And how to best deal with it.

Granted. Agreed. It is not the role of government to provide jobs, health care, prescription drugs, etc for it's people. Those are bennies asked for and gotten throught the political process.

Most gotten from many yrs ago by our parents and grand parents. But we should not allow those benefits to be taken away or decreased in any way either. To do so is to tarnish our families before us whom gave them to us so we can have a better life and no endure what they did and had to.

But neither is it the role of our government to ask it's people to vote on or have rules & policies which work against it's working people and it's industries either. Works against both sides.

The points here are, we did not as voting people, directly vote for the trade rules which now work against us. Our officals did.

We, the American people took the bait under false pretenses.

Told only the "good" it would do but not for 'whom.'

No mistake. Understood. Trade is good and needed. But not rules which make the most successful, resourceful & hardest working people on this planet work here in America work against odds they cannot over come easily.

Akin to being at sea in a vastly underpowered vessel fighting high seas and strong under currents. The battle is valiant but the war with the sea will be lost.

In this case the vessel will eventually surcome to the forces of the sea and the ship will sink. Is this what America faces? If so, why should we as a people? To benefit a foreign country?

In mu opinion, no. Level the fields and America will win everytime in every battle in any industry. Our people are that good.

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Open topic for discussion. All welcomed.
What are your views? Opinions? Suggestions?...????
Toss in your 2 cents here into the ring....
 
  #17  
Old 03-25-04, 05:32 PM
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Talking Maybe that's why this post is relegated to Chats & Whines.

Yes indeed & you?

Others just believe if they don't think about it, then everything will be peachy keen. America has never fought a War like we are in today & still we have people who want to come on home & everything will turn out just Okey Dokey.

Silly thought, but I have read that some citizens indeed want America to fail. I said fail not fall because America is an experiment in Social Eveolution. 1. Can we the people govern ourselves? 2. In other words can we retain our power, once the common Man is unable to pay to play, accross the beltway?

Don't worry just get in line, next stop the new World order. That is unless you rock the boat, talking about your personal liberty's. Remember Waco?
 
  #18  
Old 03-25-04, 06:06 PM
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Hi Marturo

Good discussion.

Great choice of words too. I like them.

Peachy keen. You are of course referring to the "Rosey Glasses" crowd...haha. Yeap. Meet one today. My tax lady. Worried now because tax filings are now being done overseas.

Has some in that tax industry worried now too. Can't compete and can't move off shore...chickens coming home to roost.

The high tech folks (another crowd with rosey glasses) once thought they where safe too. No layoffs, booming employments and high pay. Old theroy, get a good education, (high tech too and you will have a good high paying job forever.

Not so anymore. The tide is coming in and it will touch just about everyone, if not everyone in just about every industry. Think not folks. Can't do business with anyone whom cannot pay. Touches everyone some how and in some way, sooner or later. Even the service industry is not immune.

New World Order? You and I know what that means but wondering how many others know???? Another one of those Trickle Up and No Trickle Down. "Them that gots...gets"

The rest of us working peasants get the royal shaft. Soon all the wealth of the nation will be in the hands of the very few. They will than fight among themselves to get the others share.

And what will all the rest of us do???

Plow the fields and barter to buy and pay???

Any thoughts anyone???
 
  #19  
Old 03-25-04, 10:14 PM
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Gloom and Doom.
The sky is falling.
The world is going to end.
Blah, blah, blah.

I.T. jobs are making a strong comeback.
Those companies in the lead are bringing jobs BACK to America.
The pendulum always swings both ways a few times before it finds it's center.

The ONLY thing constant in the universe is CHANGE.
The best way to get left behind is to be stagnant.

Looking backwards only lets you see what has happened.
Looking forward is to see limitless opportunity.

The world IS growing smaller, and change happens everywhere.
Think about it.

Keep on rollin, rollin, rollin, baby.
 
  #20  
Old 03-26-04, 07:22 AM
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Hi: tae

Gloom and Doom.
The sky is falling.
The world is going to end.

Good points made.

Not exactly doom or gloom. Nor meant to be. Depends on ones view. I prefer to think of this disscussion of and on the facts. An enlightenment for the need to realize the changes around us and try to adapt to them, if possible. Thought provoking topic, not doom nor gloom.

The need for effected persons to reinvent themselves to keep up with the times and the changes. But not always possible nor easy for some effected person whom have lost their jobs.

Very difficult for blue collar workers whom worked in mfg industries to re invent themselves into todays ever changing job markets. Several key factors effect them.

Age is one of the factors. Over 50 crowd find it far more difficult to change from a factor worker (as an example) to a tech computer job, etc. Employers frown on hiring them. They require higher entry level pay, more costly to provide health and welfare for.

Toss in not near as mobile as younger people (like not married with kids and a house) and already having an education in the new field. Older folks going back to schools and colleges to learn the skills needed. The tranformation is far more difficult for far too many.

But do agree change is happening and will continue to happen. Mostly for the betterment of many but not for all. For those effected by the change and unable to reinvent themselves, what happens to them?

Is America a society whom just leaves them behind and allows them to fall by the wayside? When the effected want to remain active and productive members of society, do we turn our backs on them? Hope not.

Some effected parties start small businesses. Many fail yearly. Of those that succeed, many work long hours. Divide the hours they must work to run their own business into the wages they take home, provides a bleak picture of success. Fact.

Franchises provide better incomes and more assurity of sucess. But only to those whom have the investment startup cash and or those whom are willing to risk it all. Same applies to private startup busineeses many effected persons pursue. Fact.

The associations for small business owners have these facts and many others like them. As does the governments own statistics.
 
  #21  
Old 03-26-04, 08:56 AM
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Talking Never say die

"Looking backwards only lets you see what has happened."
Yes but.
If we fail to study our history we may be damned to repete it. Not such a good thing in many cases I would think.

I started a farm, that started the whole world smiling. Only I hurt myself twice, and started the whole Farm dying, only I did not see, that the joke was on me.

I started again only this time in IT only i'm only 52 years old & realy had to work much harder to learn. I thought it would be nice if I could help others save their pictures on a DVD. I work very hard to make this happen & so if I fail again, the whole World will not see that the joke is not on me.

I finely died & I may have left some wisdom, to never say die, just keep on trying as hard as you can & you can. Life without dreams, is just a life of crying & just broken Dreams. Who would really want that, if they had the choice to do it for themselves? Of course they have the choice, but seldom see it.

I have to go now & buy all that food for the Garden that feeds us all year round. I am very happy now that I learned to do it all myself, so was the joke realy on me? Not that I can see. I'm still free to be me, & to do it all by myself because if I don't no one else will

Where would you go right now that would be better? Kinda get's ya right there don't it? I'll just stay for the whole show, & see how it turns out.
Rose colored glasses, is only colored glass after all & it won't change a thing, or help you understand why you are here.

Officer 2211 asks do you fell lucky today? Remember some come her to chat & some come here to whine, sometimes some do both at the sametime.
 

Last edited by marturo; 04-03-04 at 09:43 PM.
  #22  
Old 03-29-04, 11:28 PM
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Very interesting discussion.

My take on all this:
You, me, the average citizen, the average consumer, are the ones who are driving this carnival ride. We can change the course if we want...if and when we realize we are getting farther and farther from our destination. I guess a lot of us already see that we are getting farther away from our destination, but haven't looked far enough ahead to see the brick wall in the distance. The distractions along the way have prevented us from looking very far ahead. We're so caught up in saving a penny, making a penny, and pleasing the few. I think it will change, as more people realize what is coming if things continue this way. As a matter of fact, I think it's already starting.

God Bless America
 
  #23  
Old 04-04-04, 09:41 AM
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Interesting point:
If we fail to study our history we may be damned to repeat it. Not such a good thing in many cases I would think.
Seems the current administration in the white house and in the oval office has plenty of explaining to do. Thus far, no (WMD) weapons of mass distruction found and likely hood none will be found.

Seems to me that all should have been evident long ago. Saddam may have attempted to aquirre such but likely hood not able to with sanctions in place, North and South boarders under constant monitoring and surveillance.

If any WMD's where found, whom would have "Egg" on the face? Us and the partner countries for failing to detect them.

Faulty intelligence? Yeah right. Believe that and I have a bridge or two for sale. More "Egg" in the face. Thus the start of the "Back Peddling" "Soft Shoe" "Excuses" and "Tap and Dance" around the subjects and issue of evidence prior to war begins.

IMO, the USA was led into a War which had no merit for the purpose of finding WMD. No idea of the reisistance from a few to be dealt with and no real exist strategy. Hard to have an exist strategy if the intent was "OIL."...????

Liberating a country is a good purpose. Which is never really that easy as we are often led to believe. Another Viet Nam in the making? Maybe and I certainly hope not. History does and will repeat itself, when we do not learn from our prior history.

I hope the "Joke" is not on us! Let the investigations continue and all involed testify under oath. We shall all learn form it.

Lets support the troops! Toss our current leader and those in that staff out of office. For leading this nation into war under false pretenses.

Stay tune. More evidence is about to be revealed. The costs to us tax payers and our nation will continue to ballon our debts for years to come... Without any chances to recoop the funds spent!

Impeachment? Yes! Too late for the prior but not for the present!
 
  #24  
Old 04-04-04, 10:08 AM
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Question Food 4 Thought

Care to look up in the dictionary the meanings of "Cartel?" How about "Monopoly?" Striking similar. You don't suspect the sending of H. Kisinger to the middle East years ago to "Stabilize" oil prices pricing was a good idea now do you? Hope not.

Want stabilized pricing? Mafia did that years ago...haha. So did companies of products in America. Formed "Monopolies" to which laws had to be pasted to control and regulate pricing.

Ever hear of Public Utilities Commissions? There sole purpose is to regulate and control pricing of utilities of the producers of energy. Of which many have little or no means to compare pricings and change suppliers.

Notice the current gasoline pricing? Supply and demand are factors. So is the pending 4% cuts in oil production by the oil producing "Cartels." Timing is everything. Summer traveling is about to begin. Great time to cut produce to raise pricing.

If "Cartels" do not effect pricing, than why are the oil dependant countries over there in the middle East attempting to convince the oil producing "Cartels" NOT to CUT productions?

HUMMM..."Food" 4 Thought????
 
  #25  
Old 04-04-04, 10:12 AM
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Question Food 4 Thought

Care to look up in the dictionary the meanings of "Cartel?" How about "Monopoly?" Striking similar. You don't suspect the sending of H. Kisinger to the middle East years ago to "Stabilize" oil prices pricing was a good idea now do you? Hope not.

Want stabilized pricing? Mafia did that years ago...haha. So did companies of products in America. Formed "Monopolies" to which laws had to be pasted to control and regulate pricing.

Ever hear of Public Utilities Commissions? There sole purpose is to regulate and control pricing of utilities of the producers of energy. Of which many have little or no means to compare pricings and change suppliers.

Notice the current gasoline pricing? Supply and demand are factors. So is the pending 4% cuts in oil production by the oil producing "Cartels." Timing is everything. Summer traveling is about to begin. Great time to cut produce to raise pricing.

If "Cartels" do not effect pricing, than why are the oil dependant countries over there in the middle East attempting to convince the oil producing "Cartels" NOT to CUT productions?

Time to dig deeper into the purses, wallets and pockets for additional change if planning to drive anywhere. OIL. You can't leave home without it!

HUMMM..."Food" 4 Thought????
 
  #26  
Old 04-07-04, 08:10 AM
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On the subject of WMDs:

Here's a partial list of people who thought Saddam DID have them:

Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Madelaine Albright, Sandy Berger, Richard Gephardt, Ted Kennedy, Carl Levin, Joe Lieberman, Frank R. Lautenberg, Dick Lugar, Kit Bond, Jon Kyl, Chris Dodd, John McCain, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Alfonse D'Amato, Bob Kerrey, Pete V. Domenici, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Mikulski, Thomas Daschle, John Breaux, Tim Johnson, Daniel K. Inouye, Arlen Specter, James Inhofe, Strom Thurmond, Mary L. Landrieu, Wendell Ford, John F. Kerry, Chuck Grassley, Jesse Helms, Rick Santorum, Nancy Pelosi, Bob Graham, Al Gore, Robert Byrd, Jay Rockerfeller, Henry Waxman, the UN Security Council, PLUS about 99% of everyone else in Washington on BOTH sides of the aisle.

Oh, and the people of Halabja, Iraq:

http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

The continual repeating of the mantra "Where are the WMD's/Bush lied", ad nauseum, is nothing more than election year partisan politics. I'm sure those on the right would be trying to make political hay with the subject if the shoe as on the other foot.

On a different subject, if "BIG OIL" has GWB in their back pockets (as oft repeated by the left) why would they keep gas prices so high in an election year? Wouldn't that be shooting oneself in the proverbial foot?

My $.02 worth.
 
  #27  
Old 04-10-04, 07:26 AM
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BIG OIL does not directly have GWB in their back pockets, so to speak. Neither political party side does to most extent.

However, the oil producing nations (OPEC) "Cartels" do.

Can you think of a better way to for them to make GWB look bad during an election year than to do as they are doing? Raise prices or cutting production.

Cutting production cannot be control by either political party. The U.S. cannot pass anti monoply laws outside of this country. All we and other nations can do is inquire as to why and beg. Period.

Thus, the "Cartels" cut production, prices raise and the American people get PO'ed at the current administration.

That's a "BRILLIANT" strategy! An outside America force having some control over public opinion towards our elected leadership.

Not a believer? Than ask why is the medias pre warning the Americans that current prices will continue to rise for the duration of this entire year? We can than deduct prices will fall afterwards?

As OPEC cuts oil production levels, (which may not be the only time this year they do) it effects the entire worlds oil supply. Prices rise everywhere to every industrialized nation.

Cutting oil production this time by 4%. If that does not get the effect they want, do it again and again, until the desired results are obtained and as the election time draws closer and closer.

Another brilliant move on their parts.
(And the "Pinch" of the pockets has just begun)
It's brilliant! Puts the "Mafia" gangs of all groups to shame.

Turns world public opinion against the leaders whom are part of the coalition forces in the oil producing parts of the globe. Thus effecting public opinions world wide against being in that part of the world and meddling in their affairs..."BRILLIANT"!!!

And where are those WMD's??? Anybody found any yet???

Edited in section:
No impeachment was needed in the last administration. Nothing was found to warrant such. Yet we tax payers are spending millions on wasted commissions, fact finding missions and hearings.

No impeachment will be needed in this administration. No evidence of WMD's have been found thus far. Likely hood none will ever be found.

911 hearings are getting somewhere but not by much. Not much will be found at fault to blame the current administration.

Again, the tax payers are spending billions on wasted commissions, fact finding missions and hearings.

Our leaders in both parties and both houses spending our money to make it appear to us they are doing something, while actually doing nothing.

The current administration will self IM-plode of it's own doing. Give it time and watch oil prices rise....high wage good job unemployment vanish and small time job creations appear, the continuous exodus of American industries abroad, etc.......

Self destruction in progress.

History does repeat itself.

When will we ever learn????

And the beat goes on.
 

Last edited by Sharp Advice; 04-10-04 at 08:05 AM.
  #28  
Old 04-12-04, 05:26 AM
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Gotta love that 9/11 "Commission". Always nice to see Congress relearning the old adage about hindsight always being 20/20. Somebody refresh my memory; what were the findings of the 12/7 Commission after Pearl Harbor? Was impeachment recommended for FDR? Afterall, FDR had already been president for over 8 years before the attack, unlike GWB who had 8 MONTHS. Oh, there was no such commission? Guess winning the war was more important. When the finger pointing finishes, anybody want to bet that absolutely NO blame gets laid at Congress' doorstep?

Trying to imagine how fast an impeachmnet vote would have come up if GWB had ordered up the amount of airport security we have now in the middle of August 2001, mobilized the Guard and Reserve, and went into Afghanistan to root out Al Qaeda. Geez, half the people in his own party probably would have voted "aye".

I especially enjoyed Richard Clark making the commission and CBS'"60 Minutes" his first stops on his book tour. Anybody hear in the major media that CBS and his book publisher are both owned by the same company? I'm sure THAT guaranteed uinbiased, hard-hitting reporting. Right.

Bottom line is going to be that both Bill Clinton and GWB probably should have seen something major coming and done something about it. Lots of time and energy wasted figuring THAT out. The purpose of the commission is supposed to be how to prevent reoccurrences of the like. But once the partisan politics is over, the conclusion is going to be, well, against a determined group of suicidal, fanatical, religeous-zealot maniacs, its probaly not possible to 100 % gaurantee there'll be no repeats. Duh.
 
  #29  
Old 04-15-04, 05:15 PM
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Fantastic strategy theory. No, I don't believe fabrications. Especially of the Democratic Daily or the GOP Roller variety. Once again it's someone elses fault.

Two assumptions that I aggree with (1) A strong Nation requires sustained energy sources. (2) America is oil dependant.

Weaving the strif in Venezuela, Nigeria, and Iraq, (related crude price increases due to) plus the hign cost of fuel imports and transportation; reduction of the number of refineries in the US and lack of storage facilites; the blended and reformulated gas problems; increased world wide demand; on and on.., into a strategy of Muslim political influence is farfetched.

Infering that the Saudis and other "Muslim" OPEC nations should pump more instead of promoting homeland solutions is counterproductive. Muslim alms to the pour: by design, misdirection, or uncontrollable cirumstances will fund terroisum is some way. The Saudi Minister of Finance is charged with investing over $ 800,000.00 per day in oil related revenues (affecting Americans and American Markets). Promoting solutions would create good jobs for Americans. (Fifty million dollars per day will support a few people). I doubt that it will come about until complacent Americans are raw and bleeding. (No lack of problems to solve, but the will, stamina, and fortitude to do so are missing).

BTW, gas price increases are projected through 2005. The ethanol subsidy (a hidden cost) runs out in 2007. If the US suffers weather related disasters expect an extension of the 2005 projection.

Do you expect politicians to be benevolent keepers without coherencement from the voters. Do you expect voters to be rational instead of being easily divided by emotion. Feel your way oujt of that. The only sure thing is the complacent will succumb to the non-complacent.
 
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