I'm not denying the Asbestos threat but..... [Moved thread]

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Old 02-10-07, 10:34 PM
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I'm not denying the Asbestos threat but..... [Moved thread]

After hours upon hours of reading, I've come to the conclusion that the asbestos threat cannot be the weapon that it's portrayed to be. There is no way that hundreds of thousands of homes built in the last 150 years would be still standing if the threat was as real as it's made out to be. I'm not saying it's not dangerous, but go bury your head in a face full of fibreglass pink and see what happens. How come schools have to be torn apart yet your kids can go home to a house full of it and be ok. Alot of municipalities allow home owners to remove there own asbestos flooring providing they use proper techniques. As far as I know flooring has Chrysotile asbestos, which the bodies imune system can handle and despose of quite easily. Obviously one does not want to be exposed to this time and time again. The other fibres known as brown or blue, that are in brake linings pipe insulation and fireproof doors are the nightmares. Having said that, none of it is a good thing to be inhaling, but there are a hell of alot of products out there that will do more harm, and nothing is being done about them. They still sell alluminum cookware. Not a good idea. The epa and other governing bodies rank asbestos as a worse case scenario, they do not distinguish between types. I think what I'm getting at, is that we all must read and learn as much as we can on our own and not jump to conclusions. I think the real answer to the Asbestos scare lies somewhere between those who thinks it's no threat, and those who think it's the end of all ends. Afterall Chysotile is still in production today. Just my thoughts, Please feel free to share your thoughts and ideas as well.
 
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Old 02-10-07, 11:52 PM
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Unhappy What it comes down to...

I guess what it come down to is if your willing to take the risk. And if you are and you have a family are you willing to possibly put their health at risk if you are not careful.
 
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Old 02-11-07, 05:55 AM
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I agree with jet!! Our high school remodeled b/c of the asbestos!!! Supposedly that was the reason. I just redid my floor in spring of 06 and we had asbestos tile!! It was peeling up by hand and I did a lot of research and asked numerous contractors about it and some about 2 of them said I should have it professionally done which I think they said that b/c they didn't want sued!! Which I understand! But the others said the same thing. I would have to have crushed up all of the tile (around 500) in to powder and sniffed it to even have a chance of getting the asbestos!!!
I do agree w/ hardlyworking to, don't take the risk if you have a family!!
 
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Old 02-11-07, 07:17 AM
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First, I would like to say I did not knwo there were different types of asbestos and they have different properties. Thanks for that info. I need to research that a it to understand more.

Now, understand that asbestos, left undisturbed, does not cause any problems. It is when it is airborne and inhaled that causes the problems. That is why a tile floor that contains asbestos is often simply tiled over. It prevents the situation of breaking them up and freeing asbstos to become airborne. (not considering the Chrysolite difference with that situation)

Asbestos wrapped pipes are often merely sealed to prevent airborne asbestos rather than R and R. When a building is razed is when it becomes a problem and needs to be treated with all the space gear. (sealed breathing equip).

Now to the statement of the face full of pink (insulation). Inhaling fiberglass (which is actually glass as opposed to asbstos which is an entirely different mineral involved) has been suspected to cause silicosis. That is malady that one who is exposed to airborne silicon is known to experience.

California was ,at one point, (don't know where it ended up) considering classifying fiberglass as a carcinogen. The belief was that similar to asbestos, the fine fiber penetrated the lining of the lung and caused damage. Asbestos fiber tends to stay in the tissue better due to the structure of the fiber itself. The glass tends to be expelled easier but the damage caused was still under study as being a long term problem.

As with any environmental induced illness, there are many factors to consider. Generally the level and length of exposure are the greatest factors of concern. The general idea though is that once something has been determined to be carcinogenic, it needs to be dealt with as a carcinogenic. It is very difficult to determine at exactly what level of exposure a substance has deleterious effects so the idea is to err on the side of caution.

Better safe than sorry.
 
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Old 02-11-07, 08:09 AM
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I gotta tell ya, I'm with Jet on this one. As a pro in the floor field, I can't recommend folks mess with the stuff for fear of law suits, but the whole thing just wears me out. In most instances I've run into, the old asbestos laden flooring is not well adhered and is easily removed, a spray bottle of water to keep it damp keeps anything from floating, and it will be well "encapsulated" at its final destination. I'm all in favor of reasonable caution in life and taking unnecessary health risks does seem foolhardy, but it's a bit tough to swallow from some one telling me how dangerous it is to his family with a cigarette hangin' out of his mouth.
 
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Old 02-11-07, 09:36 AM
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I'm sure everyone has an opinion on what hazards asbestos pose.
These discussions hopefully will encourage people to gather the facts and decide for themselves what precautions to take.

Chryostile asbestos is a type of asbestos that has the fibres in a longer spiral strand and has a chemical make-up that is rejected more easily by the lungs when the airborne fibres are inhaled. The hazards of this type of asbestos has little to do with your system's immunity.

The other type of asbestos is Amphibole which is short stranded and not used much any more because of it's ability to remain in the lungs.
It is allowed to be used in extremely high heat applications but its use is tightly controlled.

You really have to be carefull when working with this stuff but I also agree that there is a lot of undue concern caused by a lack of knowledge.

I personally do not obsess about the risk but having said that will remove the 3 1/2 inches of Zonolite I have in my attic before I upgrade my insulation.
Not because of any fear I have about it being a danger to my family's health but rather not have to answer for it when it is time to sell my home.

An example of a lack of knowledge on this subject is that many don't know that not all Zonelite insulation contains asbestos.
I might get mine tested for my own curiosity but will remove it regardless of the outcome.
 
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Old 02-11-07, 09:55 AM
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Thanks for your thoughts, and I do agree that one cannot go about things hap-hazrdly. All I was getting at, is that you'd think the stuff was cyanide. I'm an aircraft mechanic. We use Mobil Jet II oil every single day. This is a known carcinogen and nervous system hazard. I wear nitrile gloves when handleing it everyday. If one of you spilt a quart on your hands once or twice, theres not going to be a problem. If you swim in it like I do, you really need to heed the warnings. I'm sure this is why those of you who do flooring and demo for a living are in space suits so to speak. Your daily exposure levels would be hundreds of times greater than mine is, for ripping up an old floor by the plywood and snapping a few joints on a one time basis. I do wear resperators of course. It's amazing how much money can be made by the use of fear in so many different applications.
 
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Old 02-11-07, 12:20 PM
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Exclamation

I agree and manufacturers are capitalizing on uniformed hysteria.
Look at the graphic commercials with electron microscope images of bacteria swimming on your counter or cleaning the counter with an uncooked chicken implying you are doing the same if you do not use their anti-bacterial soap.
If people were informed they would realize that the use of anti-bacterial soaps are not effective and contribute to resistant bacteria.

Another good one is the famous carbon drinking water filter mfr that shows a woman coming out of the bathroom and while hearing the toilet flush we see the water swirling down her drinking water glass.
They are implying that if we didn't use their filter we would be drinking toilet water.
They make out to be concerned but their concern does not take into account that after using the toilet the woman in the commercial has not had time wash her hands.
 
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Old 02-11-07, 05:37 PM
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Great point Greg H. The same goes for cigarettes. We all no the health consequences, worse than Chrysotile type asbestos I'm sure. The Governments around the world have done everything but outright ban it, because theres just to much money to be made, and to many ignorant people to make it off of.
 
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Old 02-13-07, 06:55 AM
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If the threat is real, I'm a dead man. I was a phone system installer for about 8 years. We crawled in asbestos attics etc. We'd go into commerical furnace rooms where the pipes were insulated with asbestos and rip asbestos off anything that go in our way. I've drilled through old lino and a million other things that had asbestos. The world before about 1985 was asbestos laced

Recently I was removing asbestos tile flooring. Because of This DIY site, I got worried and called a local asbestos testing engineer. He was sincerly puzzled about what I was worried about. He said he'd test the glue residue from under the tiles if I wanted him to but what was the big deal? From the Carpet section of this site, I was told just encapuslate the glue with underlay...........Again, no big deal.

If asbestos is not a bunch of hype, there will soon be an epedemic of people dying as the asbestos manifests itself as a disease decades after exposure. So all us 50+ people will be dropping shortly.

Sure hope its hype!
 
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Old 02-13-07, 07:52 AM
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I think that asbestos is very dangerous for those individuals that worked around it on a daily basis. Shipyard workers were especially vulnerable because they were exposed almost continuously for years.
For most of us, the occasional exposure is probably much less hazardous. At least I hope so. I can remember shredding chunks of natural asbestos "rocks" that we would find when we were kids. Of course we also "played" with mercury and don't forget all the lead exposure. Anyone else routinely bite on lead sinkers?

IMO dangers to the general public such as asbestos are exaggerated by a news starved media and of course the ambulance chasers. Once again, it's all about the money.
 
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Old 02-13-07, 08:34 AM
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Good Lord Almighty!! I forgot all about lead sinkers! I'm doomed. I can't even count 'em all.
 
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Old 02-14-07, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell View Post
IMO dangers to the general public such as asbestos are exaggerated by a news starved media and of course the ambulance chasers. Once again, it's all about the money.
Good point about the ambulance chasers. When I found out the tile and glue were asbestos, I was sick. From all the hype I had heard, I figured my tenants were as good as dead. I called a lawyer. He said this was huge. I needed to move my tenants into a hotel immediatley and pay all their exenses while the asbestos was removed. If there was any other asbestos in the house, that needed to be removed also.

I needed to get samples checked and while the samples were being checked I needed to get quotes from asbestos removers. I should not enter the house without a mask. I needed to get him involved immediatley.

Didn't matter that the tenants had removed virually all the tiles without my knowledge. I was still responsible for even having it in the house.

I eventually discovered that most communities deem removing old tiles as "home-owner" safe. You don't even need pros to do it.

Whew........eventually, after many sleepless nights, it just all went away.
 

Last edited by mjd2k; 02-14-07 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 02-20-07, 07:00 AM
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The point is that the Federal Government stepped in and said its deadly based on years of testing and analysis, plus all the people it has killed, hospitalized, and disabled.

Not harmful to your health ... but DEADLY.

Not may cause cancer ... but DOES cause cancer.

Not that you shouldnt disturb, grind, scrape, sand, or remove it because it may be hazardous to your health ... but YOU ABSOLUTELY MAY NOT, UNDER PENALTY OF FEDERAL ENVIROMENTAL LAW, disturb, grind, scrape, sand, or remove because it IS DEADLY.

Could it be overkill in select situations ?

maybe so maybe not.

it indeed can be cladded over, which is the current preferrable way to handle asbestos in the home, so long as it isnt disturbed to release breathable fibers into the air.

I have known people that died from asbestosis and mesothelioma, so I have seen its effets, and those effects are different than some case study I am reading third person removed, so I givew it alot more creedence than others here.

I feel it is unethical to minimalize its dangers and to condone going against federal enviromental protection law.

just my $.02
 
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Old 02-20-07, 08:03 AM
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One mans unethical is another mans fear mongering. Our ever vigilant government seems to seldom have any middle ground. It normally seems to be way over the top rather than common sense and this appears to be one of those cases. I don't believe anyone is trying to say there isn't some level or cause for concern, just let folks gauge that level on a case by case basis.

just my 2 cents
 
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Old 02-20-07, 09:00 AM
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That may or may not be true. I guess it all depends how that man comes to his conclusion. Either by knowledge, research, diagnosis, and the law ... or by supposition and conjecture.

fear is a powerful deterent, and will people from improperly rectifying any asbestos issues, therefore they wont be at risk.

there is nothing misrepresentative nor discreditable about the real danger, other than some peoples uneducated opinion weighed against medical professionals diagnosis, scientific study, research, and the law.

I disagree about no middle ground and being over the top.

They recently (early 2000's) restructured whe whole asbestos law and guidelines with new ways to deal with it and further breaking it down into classes of asbestos.

It is dealt with case by case depending on its construction and condition.

ANY asbestos containing content that needs removed needs varying degrees of abatement.

If there is a chance it contains asbestos, get it tested.

Hazardous substanced need those restrictions and removal and handling regulations.

You can not let it up to peoples morality or ethics to take care of it themselves and let them figure a way to do it themselves ... not when doing so can place others at risk ... like other people in the house, their kids, neighbors, trashmen, waste facility employees, or anyone else that it can affect unbeknownst to them.

If you were the in charge, how would you handle it ?
 

Last edited by floorman67; 02-20-07 at 09:13 AM.
  #17  
Old 02-20-07, 08:28 PM
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' ..... fear is a powerful deterent,..."

Right out of 1984. Big brother is right around the corner. Scare them into submission.

In my enlightened state, legislation has been introduced that will consider smoking in a car with children to be a form of child abuse. Next will be a law allowing the police to enter a home to make sure that parents aren't feeding their children unhealthy foods like cheeseburgers and hot dogs.



my .02
 
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